Hamas attacking Israel

[Ilunga]

2 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Here is wishing Gaza a non militant leadership?  Perhaps not the best source to call for it. S.A.'s foreign minister I believe.

 

Politically among the most likely to help it happen? Or is it influence peddling by MBS @Ilunga ?

 

 

 

Don't care about politics or who owns what land anymore.

 

 

Read this article and weep my friend.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/the-children-who-lost-limbs-in-gaza

 

UNICEF estimates that a thousand children in Gaza have become amputees since the conflict began in October. " This is the largest cohort of paediatric amputees in history, " Ghassan Abu-Sittah a London based plastic surgeon who specialises in paediatric trauma told me recently. " 

 

 

He spent 43 days in Gaza back in October - November.

At one stage he didn't leave the operating room for three days. 

Up to six amputations a day. 

 

Think about that.

The largest group of child amputees in a few months in history. 

 

Read on and bear witness to their stories.

As horrific as they are we must not turn away. 

 

 

 

 

[iinatcc]

On 6/29/2024 at 5:46 PM, SilentSam said:

 

 

 

I don't understand the comparison here. ISIS is a terrorist group no way allied with the West. Israel is an ally of the west with the bombs, used to kill innocent people, supplied by the United States. 

[Sharpshooter]

On 7/1/2024 at 12:56 AM, I_AM_CANUCKIAN said:

Oh and I forgot "FUCK ISRAEL"

 

They want no part of peace.

Sarcasm? 
 

[SilentSam]

3 hours ago, iinatcc said:

 

I don't understand the comparison here. ISIS is a terrorist group no way allied with the West. Israel is an ally of the west with the bombs, used to kill innocent people, supplied by the United States. 

isnt Hamas aligned with ISIS ?

same mentality .   The Iranian regime is the same .

if women don’t do what they want , they kill rape or torture them.

 

am I wrong,  please correct me if I’m wrong.

[Optimist Prime]

3 hours ago, SilentSam said:

isnt Hamas aligned with ISIS ?

same mentality .   The Iranian regime is the same .

if women don’t do what they want , they kill rape or torture them.

 

am I wrong,  please correct me if I’m wrong.

sort of the same league, but different teams, in a way. I would argue even right now that Hamas members are more sane and relatively humane than ISIS members. PIcture a terrorist cult with ultra radicals armed and empowered in their 'caliphate' to do whatever they deem is the way, compared to a group of radical idealogues bent on victory or death and they don't really care which one they end up with. I would say ISIS is the playoff powerhouse team while Hamas is Toronto.

[Bob Long]

57 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

sort of the same league, but different teams, in a way. I would argue even right now that Hamas members are more sane and relatively humane than ISIS members. PIcture a terrorist cult with ultra radicals armed and empowered in their 'caliphate' to do whatever they deem is the way, compared to a group of radical idealogues bent on victory or death and they don't really care which one they end up with. I would say ISIS is the playoff powerhouse team while Hamas is Toronto.

 

So then the US is Gary Bettman?

[iinatcc]

8 hours ago, SilentSam said:

isnt Hamas aligned with ISIS ?

same mentality .   The Iranian regime is the same .

if women don’t do what they want , they kill rape or torture them.

 

am I wrong,  please correct me if I’m wrong.

 

You seem to be using Bill Maher's flawed generalization on this issue.

 

You are making it seem like the protesters are all Hamas sympathizers and/or all Palestinians killed are involved with Hamas. 

 

Of course in a protest people have some varying viewpoints but, as collective, this isn't about what Hamas is but the policies of Israel and the West in how Palestinians were and are treated. 

 

Again Iran is not an allay of the US and the West. And, I know it's for a different reason, but sanctions are put against Iran. 

[Canuck Surfer]

On 7/5/2024 at 10:55 PM, Ilunga said:

 

Don't care about politics or who owns what land anymore.

 

 

Read this article and weep my friend.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/the-children-who-lost-limbs-in-gaza

 

UNICEF estimates that a thousand children in Gaza have become amputees since the conflict began in October. " This is the largest cohort of paediatric amputees in history, " Ghassan Abu-Sittah a London based plastic surgeon who specialises in paediatric trauma told me recently. " 

 

 

He spent 43 days in Gaza back in October - November.

At one stage he didn't leave the operating room for three days. 

Up to six amputations a day. 

 

Think about that.

The largest group of child amputees in a few months in history. 

 

Read on and bear witness to their stories.

As horrific as they are we must not turn away. 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course we have! 

 

Israel's killing and mutilating children is an undeniable outcome of what is transpiring.  Calling it a simple problem; 'just get Israel to stop!'

 

Sounds like a simple solution. As much as outrage is understandable. But its not any solution. 

 

Its an 80 year old power struggle.   Now that Hamas is greatly diminished.  They seem open to negotiations. This headline is misleading. Expected position & news choice of presentation.  Hamas would love to hold on to power. Leaving them in power just guarantee's this cycle will repeat. And there are bigger fish to fry than Hamas if actual peace is to be obtained.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Ilunga]

11 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Of course we have! 

 

Israel's killing and mutilating children is an undeniable outcome of what is transpiring.  Calling it a simple problem; 'just get Israel to stop!'

 

Sounds like a simple solution. As much as outrage is understandable. But its not any solution. 

 

Its an 80 year old power struggle.   Now that Hamas is greatly diminished.  They seem open to negotiations. This headline is misleading. Expected position & news choice of presentation.  Hamas would love to hold on to power. Leaving them in power just guarantee's this cycle will repeat. And there are bigger fish to fry than Hamas if actual peace is to be obtained.

 

 

 

Brother I don't want to be drawn back into this thread.

I was replying out of respect to you because you tagged me.

 

All I really care about is the human suffering on both sides.

 

And it's the suffering that the kids endure that breaks my heart. 

 

Can you imagine having to amputate the limb of a baby ? 

 

Fuck mate, just thinking about that makes me feel so messed up.

 

They have to pay the price for the actions of the adult's. 

 

Did you read about Dr Ghassan Abu-Sittah ?

How he has treated children in war zones such as Iraq, Syria, Yemen and other places for the last thirty years. 

 

I would rather talk about people like him, people who gives their time and skills to help other's.

 

 

 

Shalom.

al salam.

[Canuck Surfer]

7 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Brother I don't want to be drawn back into this thread.

I was replying out of respect to you because you tagged me.

 

All I really care about is the human suffering on both sides.

 

And it's the suffering that the kids endure that breaks my heart. 

 

Can you imagine having to amputate the limb of a baby ? 

 

Fuck mate, just thinking about that makes me feel so messed up.

 

They have to pay the price for the actions of the adult's. 

 

Did you read about Dr Ghassan Abu-Sittah ?

How he has treated children in war zones such as Iraq, Syria, Yemen and other places for the last thirty years. 

 

I would rather talk about people like him, people who gives their time and skills to help other's.

 

 

 

Shalom.

al salam.

 

All fair but not solutions. But wont drag that with apologies.

 

Read a post I will make about time in Jordan later today.  Its very interesting.

[Ilunga]

1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

All fair but not solutions. But wont drag that with apologies.

 

Read a post I will make about time in Jordan later today.  Its very interesting.

 

I have stated this before.

 

You are the most balanced, unbiased poster in this thread. 

 

I have really enjoyed reading your posts about your holiday, and the interactions you have had with the people you have encountered in the region. 

 

My solution is this.

 

Just stop hurting the children.

 

No if, buts, Hamas', Likud, Hezbollah, what the fuck ever. 

 

Stupid fuckin humans killing, mutilating, maiming children for no good reason.

 

There is never a good reason to hurt a child.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

So Jordan?

 

Very different than Egypt. A conservative, educated, very formal Muslim ruling class.

 

invited to a dinner at the home of a PHD university prof. We were sat in the front lounge and waited for the family. Mother in full Burqa. Daughter later covered but face opened; masters degree from London. Mum explained she felt empowered by being covered? I think (?) it was believed we were t learn about Jordanian culture and religion?
 

Opened up after it was discovered my wife is a doctor, and had worked at a hospital with another daughter in Melbourne. They had visited several times. When dad was absent Mum revealed her face and eyes. They were political about not preferring the King, nor violent militants; Israel included.

 

the economy waay better than other parts ME? There is a burgeoning, almost cow boy middle class. Tour guides are uneducated, but drive 5.7l Hemi Dodge Rams to 4x 4 in the desert. At the bar  in hotels there are guys that look like Hells angels. Palestinian flag tattoos in the shape of the map of Israel. Quick to tell of genocide in Gaza. To a man; I agree with this Hamas war in Gaza. They have been captive for 80 years…

 

The working class also see’s Palestinians as brothers. Wish to show me evidence of crimes by Israel. I tell them I already know Israel commits war crimes. But I don’t like Hamas either.

 

They equally hate Britain, Iran, Turkey although less so. Absolutely Biden. History tells them they were occupied before. They like their relative prosperity. Treated us not as guests, ‘family.’ The catch to all hated is non Arab heritage. 
 

I say why Biden; ‘’ not enough support for Palestinians”. They forget Trump helped Israel claim Jerusalem as its capital; have RW views and social media driven outlook.

 

Are almost oblivious to the prosperity economic support by US, in return for armed forces bases & peace with Israel affords them. Are aware of militants and zealots in Iraq, Syria, but have no opinion as long as it’s not Israel stealing Palestine land.

 

Posters here have made note of historical support of Hamas by Israel; specifically Netanyahu. At a pool bar; the guy that looked like a biker exclaimed Bibi was in bed with the PA, not Hamas. That was the US and Israeli agenda? 
 

it’s worth mentioning Jordan in the 70’s evicted and slaughtered PLO affiliated Palestinian refugees Jordan’s integrity was sanctimonious there.  Then became the PA. Also hatched in to Hezbollah.  Somehow they thought Hezbollah were fighting a good fight in Lebanon. 
 

in any case as long as I condemned Israeli action. They took a mellower approach that what Hamas did was terrible. 
 

They also said I looked like King Abdullah?  A populist, and while the economy is good who cares?

[Canuck Surfer]

It’s worth mentioning, pre Oct 7?

 

The rumoured Israel / S.A. Peace deal…

 

Re written now would almost certainly involve an international peace keeping force Tantamount Jordan and Saudi forces with IDF and UN / US sanctioning whatever administration is ushered in.

 

Hamas says they are ready to accept a truce.  But under no circumstances outside forces of any kind.  
 

the Saudi’s and PA clearly trying to out position Iran for regional controls inclusive 

 

lest anyone think this is really about Gaza. Children

 

yet its still the best option?

[Bob Long]

3 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

So Jordan?

 

Very different than Egypt. A conservative, educated, very formal Muslim ruling class.

 

invited to a dinner at the home of a PHD university prof. We were sat in the front lounge and waited for the family. Mother in full Burqa. Daughter later covered but face opened; masters degree from London. Mum explained she felt empowered by being covered? I think (?) it was believed we were t learn about Jordanian culture and religion?
 

Opened up after it was discovered my wife is a doctor, and had worked at a hospital with another daughter in Melbourne. They had visited several times. When dad was absent Mum revealed her face and eyes. They were political about not preferring the King, nor violent militants; Israel included.

 

the economy waay better than other parts ME? There is a burgeoning, almost cow boy middle class. Tour guides are uneducated, but drive 5.7l Hemi Dodge Rams to 4x 4 in the desert. At the bar  in hotels there are guys that look like Hells angels. Palestinian flag tattoos in the shape of the map of Israel. Quick to tell of genocide in Gaza. To a man; I agree with this Hamas war in Gaza. They have been captive for 80 years…

 

The working class also see’s Palestinians as brothers. Wish to show me evidence of crimes by Israel. I tell them I already know Israel commits war crimes. But I don’t like Hamas either.

 

They equally hate Britain, Iran, Turkey although less so. Absolutely Biden. History tells them they were occupied before. They like their relative prosperity. Treated us not as guests, ‘family.’ The catch to all hated is non Arab heritage. 
 

I say why Biden; ‘’ not enough support for Palestinians”. They forget Trump helped Israel claim Jerusalem as its capital; have RW views and social media driven outlook.

 

Are almost oblivious to the prosperity economic support by US, in return for armed forces bases & peace with Israel affords them. Are aware of militants and zealots in Iraq, Syria, but have no opinion as long as it’s not Israel stealing Palestine land.

 

Posters here have made note of historical support of Hamas by Israel; specifically Netanyahu. At a pool bar; the guy that looked like a biker exclaimed Bibi was in bed with the PA, not Hamas. That was the US and Israeli agenda? 
 

it’s worth mentioning Jordan in the 70’s evicted and slaughtered PLO affiliated Palestinian refugees Jordan’s integrity was sanctimonious there.  Then became the PA. Also hatched in to Hezbollah.  Somehow they thought Hezbollah were fighting a good fight in Lebanon. 
 

in any case as long as I condemned Israeli action. They took a mellower approach that what Hamas did was terrible. 
 

They also said I looked like King Abdullah?  A populist, and while the economy is good who cares?

 

Interesting insights, thanks for posting.

[Optimist Prime]

a potent reminder that the government of Gaza attacked the Nation of Israel, which is incredibly overlooked in the current cycles as the info wars paint this as a violent Israel destroying the citizens of gaza. 
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/07/middleeast/hamas-senior-official-killed-gaza-intl/index.html

Hamas says senior government official in Gaza killed in airstrike

 

By Ibrahim Dahman and Eyad Kourdi, CNN

 2 minute read 

Published 11:47 AM EDT, Sun July 7, 2024

[Canuck Surfer]

18 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Hamas says they are ready to accept a truce.  But under no circumstances outside forces of any kind.  

 

 

 

The key point is Hamas says they are ready to negotiate, but really want to remain as the official (I describe as autocratic, militantly enforced) administration of the Gazan people. 

 

On 7/7/2024 at 11:47 AM, Canuck Surfer said:

 

 

Ami Ayalon; who fundamentally condemns Netanyahu, says 70 to 80% of Israeli's do not want continued invasion, or occupation, of Gaza. Its a problem of coalition support; the govt. will fall if Bibi sides with the people.  So he chooses to stay in power and represent the radical side of Israeli views?

 

Ayalon also suggest 70 to 80% of Gazans do not wish to be restricted by a militant leadership, live under Sharia Law? Yet they are stuck, and as some here would suggest, are being collectively punished.

 

The Gazan people seem to need to be extracted? from the situation? But as above, even Arabic intervention is not wanted by Hamas. The PA a remnant of the PLO is the presumed advocated by the US, UN, Saudi Arabia.  

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Optimist Prime]

10 hours ago -

The Israeli army confirms launching a new operation in Gaza City's Tel al-Hawa neighborhood overnight, following intelligence of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad infrastructure and terror operatives in the area. In a statement, the military says it is also operating at UNRWA's headquarters in the area, where the Israeli army previously found significant Hamas tunnel infrastructure, and killed and captured numerous gunmen. The Israeli army says it has intelligence of new Hamas and Islamic Jihad activity and infrastructure in Gaza City, including weapon caches and detention and interrogations rooms used by the terror groups. At the start of the operation, the Israeli army says it warned civilians, adding that it will open up a humanitarian corridor for Palestinians to leave the area."The Israeli army will continue to act in accordance with international law and against the Hamas and PIJ terror organizations, who systematically operate and carry out terrorist activity from inside civilian infrastructure, including UNRWA compounds, which are used by them to plan and carry out terror activity against the State of Israel," the military adds.Palestinian media report that Israeli ground forces advanced into Gaza City's Tel al-Hawa neighborhood overnight, following a large wave of airstrikes. The Israeli army at around 1 a.m. said it was carrying out airstrikes in the central Gaza Strip.

[Canuck Surfer]

Related, but not directly;

 

Turkey continues to expel Kurds, who are indigenous to its Eastern mountain ranges.  Have occupied territories as security zones in Northern Syria & Iraq which easily exceeds the size and population of West Bank & Gaza. Now are attacking further south wiping out & expelling populations by air strikes on as many as 268 villages deeper in to Iraqi territory.

 

This headline is inflammatory, but the attacks are going on almost unreported in the Kurdish autonomous zone.  These Kurdish villages don't have air defense, never mind an Iron Dome. Kurdish residents without a country outnumber Palestinian 6 to 1. Their, Turkey quotes as militant, activities do occur but are not in scale or devastation like Hezbollah and Hamas launching rockets. They are being wiped out!  

 

   

And in Syria;

 

 

While all eyes are on Israel; Erdogan appears intent on both ethnic cleansing & expanding Ottoman influence again?

[RomanPer]

9 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Related, but not directly;

 

Turkey continues to expel Kurds, who are indigenous to its Eastern mountain ranges.  Have occupied territories as security zones in Northern Syria & Iraq which easily exceeds the size and population of West Bank & Gaza. Now are attacking further south wiping out & expelling populations by air strikes on as many as 268 villages deeper in to Iraqi territory.

 

This headline is inflammatory, but the attacks are going on almost unreported in the Kurdish autonomous zone.  These Kurdish villages don't have air defense, never mind an Iron Dome. Kurdish residents without a country outnumber Palestinian 6 to 1. Their, Turkey quotes as militant, activities do occur but are not in scale or devastation like Hezbollah and Hamas launching rockets. They are being wiped out!  

 

   

And in Syria;

 

 

While all eyes are on Israel; Erdogan appears intent on both ethnic cleansing & expanding Ottoman influence again?

 

"No Jews - no news"...

[Odd.]

Just gonna leave this here 

 

 

july 1st

 

 

Edited July 10 by Odd.

[Odd.]

I’ll leave this here too

 

 

 

[Odd.]

On 7/9/2024 at 8:04 AM, Canuck Surfer said:

Related, but not directly;

 

Turkey continues to expel Kurds, who are indigenous to its Eastern mountain ranges.  Have occupied territories as security zones in Northern Syria & Iraq which easily exceeds the size and population of West Bank & Gaza. Now are attacking further south wiping out & expelling populations by air strikes on as many as 268 villages deeper in to Iraqi territory.

 

This headline is inflammatory, but the attacks are going on almost unreported in the Kurdish autonomous zone.  These Kurdish villages don't have air defense, never mind an Iron Dome. Kurdish residents without a country outnumber Palestinian 6 to 1. Their, Turkey quotes as militant, activities do occur but are not in scale or devastation like Hezbollah and Hamas launching rockets. They are being wiped out!  

 

   

And in Syria;

 

 

While all eyes are on Israel; Erdogan appears intent on both ethnic cleansing & expanding Ottoman influence again?

Uyghur/Myanmar, Tigray, Congo, Yemen, Armenia/Azerbajan, etc. 
 

What point are you trying to make?
 

the reason you don’t hear it on the news compared to the Israel/Palestine war is because there’s western influence and stake in this. Western media don’t care about the other conflicts so people aren’t seeing what’s happening in other places in the world. When the fact of the matter is most people who don’t support illegal occupation, genocide and apartheid are well aware of the issues that’s happening around the world and are just as devoted and concerned as they are with Palestine.

 

It’s funny you try and insinuate the reason for the Israel/Palestine conflict having more attention is a result of anti semitism and the hyper fixation of Jews/Israel or some weird political conspiracy. I say this because if you really cared about what’s happening to Kurds/Turkey/Syria, you’d make a separate thread and discuss about it like with the Ukraine/Russia thread rather than trying to discredit and minimize the Israel/Palestine conflict in which this thread is specifically about. 

 

 

Edited July 10 by Odd.

[Canuck Surfer]

48 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Uyghur/Myanmar, Tigray, Congo, Yemen, Armenia/Azerbajan, etc. 
 

What point are you trying to make?
 

the reason you don’t hear it on the news compared to the Israel/Palestine war is because there’s western influence and stake in this. Western media don’t care about the other conflicts so people aren’t seeing what’s happening in other places in the world. When the fact of the matter is most people who don’t support illegal occupation, genocide and apartheid are well aware of the issues that’s happening around the world and are just as devoted and concerned as they are with Palestine.

 

It’s funny you try and insinuate the reason for the Israel/Palestine conflict having more attention is a result of anti semitism and the hyper fixation of Jews/Israel or some weird political conspiracy. I say this because if you really cared about what’s happening to Kurds/Turkey/Syria, you’d make a separate thread and discuss about it like with the Ukraine/Russia thread rather than trying to discredit and minimize the Israel/Palestine conflict in which this thread is specifically about. 

 

 

 

Its related because its being ignored.  Which has a consequence, or consequences. It also has a root in this specific problem which makes it highly relevant.

 

Its speaks to the media, notably social media hype regarding extra importance to a solution for Palestinians. Specifically that the media storm has propagation by players with a stake in the conflict. Are happy that other conflicts take center stage.

 

Turkey is only one example; also happens to have ruled 'Palestine' for 550 or more of the last 700 odd years. Is happy to squish a Jewish play which has been gaining power over the last 80 years. While it is attempting to re-establish its own power base. Has in fact been committing the same crimes against Kurds on a much more systematic basis. Has displaced more Kurds since 2000 than the entire population of the West Bank & Gaza. There are Kurdish refugees from Iran also, Armenia. Who are expelled or leaving, but here not allowed to re-settle in other locations, parts of the historic Kurdistan. Now currently including Turkey bombing residential villages. 

 

The lack of media attention?  If 'they' can operate with anonymity? Operations have higher success. So mentioning alongside a similar conflict is important.  

 

More so, these acts in Islamic countries of expelling & subjugating minorities is endemic & highly related the overall reach for power. Countries like Turkey, Iran stay in power by getting rid of opposition. Just like smaller militant groups, Hamas, ISIS, Houthi, etc..

 

A consequence to this is Jews, Kurds, Palestinians, others, consolidate. Or become victim?

 

These are actually common tactics of Middle East power struggles.