Hamas attacking Israel

[Bob Long]

15 minutes ago, 24K said:

Cause it matters to the rest of the world. You don't think this ruling has anything to do with UK suspending weapons sale to Israel? 

 

Also this comment was originally about you saying this isn't true but rather an analogy.

 

You are not though. You brought up the same question 3 times and I answered 3 times. 

 

I don't know what else you need. 

 

OK whatever floats your boat I guess. 

[24K]

18 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Not that I want to get into a deeper convo today about apartheid but the ICC didn't rule that Israel is committing apartheid, they ruled they are in breach of article 3, which has one of a few options being apartheid. Hamas blowing up a suicide vest in Tel Aviv today may explain why Israel has a guarded border with Gaza, but I doubt you want to see that. 

 

The listed options as listed on the ruling is racial segregation or apartheid. I am not sure you want to argue for racial segregation either. 

 

 

I know about the suicide bomb. Hamas is in the wrong and and frankly really dumb for doing so. I understand wanting a secure birder between Gaza and Israel but that doesn't mean demanding control over a border that us not even theirs. 

 

18 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Your own post shows that the word is used because they are accused of it, then goes on to say they breach article three, which only has apartheid as one of the things that could bring a signatory to be in breach. I am honestly not even sure Israel is a signatory to the validity of the court, but I am tired so I am logging out for now. 

Arguing if Israel is part of the court or not does not invalidate the opinion of an international court. It just means they can't go enforce their sentence for said breaches.

 

18 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I think we all want peace and prosperity for all: arguing over the minutia is pointless anyways. Hamas has to go, I don't care if Putin does it, Israel does it or Biden Does it..or Egypt does it, but they can not be allowed to control Gaza any more, for everyone's peace and future. 

Hamas has to go but not by eradicating all of people in Gaza as IDF seems to be doing right now. That is genocide. What happened to never again? 

Edited August 19 by 24K

[Ilunga]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

This isn't meant to be offensive, but I stopped reading the length of breadth of your posts about 300 pages ago as they are all exactly the same thing and includes the word "I" in almost every one of them. We get you, peace is very important, lets all work for peace. Sorry I missed your post of 'evidence' but I assume you mean a social media post from someone else. Have a good night man, i am tired and loggin out. I seem to be cranky at the moment.

 

As you well know I never use social media links.

I don't use social media full stop apart from this site.

 

My source an Isreali source, the Haaretz newspaper.

 

Again 

 

" Haaretz investigation: Isreali Army Uses Palestinian Civilians to Inspect Potentially Booby Trapped Tunnels in Gaza. 

 

' our lives are more important than their lives. Gazans not suspected of terrorism are detained and sent as human shields to search tunnels before IDF soldiers enter, with the full knowledge of senior Isreali officers, sources say; IDF claims this practice is forbidden "

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-08-13/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-uses-gazan-civilians-as-human-shields-to-inspect-potentially-booby-trapped-tunnels/00000191-4c84-d7fd-a7f5-7db6b99e0000

 

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/haaretz/

 

Factual reporting High 

High Credibility 

 

 

[24K]

15 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

I don't know if you understand that you are reaching here. In red you highlight just the word "apartheid", which in all cases refers to what some of the participants CLAIM". The highlights text in green says that Israel is in breach of Article 3 but it doesn't say directly anything about Israel committing apartheid. "Breach of Article 3" does not equal "apartheid".

I already stated I don't want to engage with you on this topic due to your blatant bias here with your personal connections. 

 

Stop quoting me. 

 

OK I am out. My bad for being back in here. I know this thread will rile me up and I avoided it for so long. 

 

Was in here just to comment on US politic shannigans and went down a rabbit hole. 

 

Good days to you guys/gals.

Edited August 19 by 24K

[Ilunga]

5 minutes ago, 24K said:

The listed options as listed on the ruling is racial segregation or apartheid. I am not sure you want to argue for racial segregation either. 

 

 

I know about the suicide bomb. Hamas is in the wrong and and frankly really dumb for doing so. I understand wanting a secure birder between Gaza and Israel but that doesn't mean demanding control over a border that us not even theirs. 

 

Arguing if Israel is part of the court or not does not invalidate the opinion of an international court. It just means they can't go enforce their sentence for said breaches.

 

Hamas has to go but not by eradicating all of people in haza as IDF seems to be doing right now. That is genocide. What happened to never again? 

 

Never again ?

 

That's what I have always wondered about 

 

Pol Pot and his Killing Fields 

Rwanda

Darfour 

Bosnia Herzegovina

Myanmar 

 

I could go on.

[RomanPer]

9 minutes ago, 24K said:

I already stated I don't want to engage with you on this topic due to your blatant bias here with your personal connections. 

 

Stop quoting me. 

 

So, no actual response. Yet, you did reply with supposed "proof", only to go back to my "bias" when presented with flaws in your logic. Makes perfect sense. Feel free to block me. I'll be replying to whichever message I feel that requires my reply.

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

It is pointless. When the government of Gaza attacked Israel and Israel shut down their border with Gaza: those who wanted to see it as a prison saw it as a prison, those who wanted to see that a nation attacked by its enemies has no obligation to feed those enemies see it that way. 
It does get complicated in that the Philly corridor was and IS riddled with tunnels for smuggling into and out of Gaza into and out of Egypt, and so if I am a decider for Israel, of course I want to stop that illegal smuggling of rockets and guns and ammo and people into and out of Gaza, but if Israel occupies the Philly Corridor (the border between Gaza and Egypt) then if Israel isn't feeding their enemy: who is? Shrug. 

 

Bigger brains than us here will have to solve this. I suggested months ago that perhaps the west bank be given back to Jordan to administer, and the cherry for doing so would be a mediterranean port and control of Gaza at the same time...run it like the Russians run Kaliningrad, which has no connection to Russia at all, but is part of Russia. 
I don't know if that is even remotely possible, but I think it could be a good solution and over time may de-radicalize Gaza from its current state where 2/3rds are in full support of Hamas...  of course this would all only be possible once Hamas is eliminated from power in Gaza... and so we are back to square one. Almost not worth typing it out, it is that remote a possibility. 

 

You know a great way to stop radicalising  Palestinians in both Gaza and the West Bank, don't kill Palestinians in those places. 

 

That would have to be the number one reason for radicalising them.

[Ilunga]

Just now, RomanPer said:

 

So, no actual response. Yet, you did reply with supposed "proof", only to go back to my "bias" when presented with flaws in your logic. Makes perfect sense. Feel free to block me. I'll be replying to whichever message I feel that requires my reply.

 

Funny how you don't reply to my posts when they refute things you claim.

 

Things such as Isrealis soldiers/settlers are held accountable for killing/injuring Palestinians in the West Bank.

 

There are no foreign aid workers in Gaza.

 

Things you have claimed, and things I have provided evidence for that proves you are wrong.

 

[RomanPer]

Just now, Ilunga said:

 

Funny how you don't reply to my posts when they refute things you claim.

 

Things such as Isrealis soldiers/settlers are held accountable for killing/injuring Palestinians in the West Bank.

 

There are no foreign aid workers in Gaza.

 

Things you have claimed, and things I have provided evidence for that proves you are wrong.

 

 

You don't provide evidence, you provide opinions. I tried to point it out to you many times. At some point I stopped reading your posts that are longer than a few sentences. Ever heard of "boy that cried wolf" tale? You are a perfect example of it.

[Bob Long]

25 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

I don't know if you understand that you are reaching here. In red you highlight just the word "apartheid", which in all cases refers to what some of the participants CLAIM". The highlights text in green says that Israel is in breach of Article 3 but it doesn't say directly anything about Israel committing apartheid. "Breach of Article 3" does not equal "apartheid".

 

Its apartheid. No wait, it's genocide. Or is it an open air prison? nope its colonialism. 

 

How is anyone supposed to understand whats going on when people use this conflict to push their own agenda?

 

[Ilunga]

Just now, RomanPer said:

 

You don't provide evidence, you provide opinions. I tried to point it out to you many times. At some point I stopped reading your posts that are longer than a few sentences. Ever heard of "boy that cried wolf" tale? You are a perfect example of it.

 

 

Dude, you claimed there was no foreign aid workers in Gaza and I provided a couple of articles that actually had photos of Australian, UNICEF, aid worker.

And Canadian doctors who were working in Gaza.

 

Then there were those foreign aid workers Isreal murdered. 

 

And here is an article dated yesterday about another Australian aid worker going into Gaza to help the kids 

 

https://www.savethechildren.org.au/our-stories/the-world-is-failing-aid-workers-and-the-people

 

As for Isreali soldiers being held accountable

 

" Under 1% of Israeli army probes yield  conviction "

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-12-22/ty-article/watchdog-under-1-of-israel-army-probes-yield-prosecution/00000185-39de-d5e1-a1e5-7ffe453f0000

 

These are not my opinions roman.

 

It's not my opinion that there was, and are now Australian, amongst other foreign aid workers on the ground in Gaza, those articles provide factual information they are. 

 

It is not my opinion that Isreali soldiers are not held accountable for killing/injuring Palestinians in the west bank, that articles proves they are not.

[Ilunga]

@Taxi

 

This New York Times article is dated 1981

 

This llustrates how far back Isreal started funding the radical Islamists, and their reasons for doing so.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/03/28/world/under-gaza-s-calm-surface-death-drugs-intrigue.html

 

" But the Islamic fundamentalists are also receiving some Isreali aid, General Segev said. " The Isreali government gave me a budget, and the military government gives to the mosques " explained the the General, who was a military attached at the Isreali embassy in Tehran before the Islamic revolution there. The funds are both used for mosques and religious schools, with the purpose of strengthening a force that runs counter to the pro PLO leftists " 

 

So by funding the radical Islamists, Israel not only helped them to become an organisation that would in the future attack Isreal, they helped the Islamists force their Ideology on Palestinians', as opposed to the secular PLO. 

 

Israels actions hurt both the Israeli and Palestinian people. 

[DeNiro]

1 hour ago, Ilunga said:

@Taxi

 

This New York Times article is dated 1981

 

This llustrates how far back Isreal started funding the radical Islamists, and their reasons for doing so.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/03/28/world/under-gaza-s-calm-surface-death-drugs-intrigue.html

 

" But the Islamic fundamentalists are also receiving some Isreali aid, General Segev said. " The Isreali government gave me a budget, and the military government gives to the mosques " explained the the General, who was a military attached at the Isreali embassy in Tehran before the Islamic revolution there. The funds are both used for mosques and religious schools, with the purpose of strengthening a force that runs counter to the pro PLO leftists " 

 

So by funding the radical Islamists, Israel not only helped them to become an organisation that would in the future attack Isreal, they helped the Islamists force their Ideology on Palestinians', as opposed to the secular PLO. 

 

Israels actions hurt both the Israeli and Palestinian people. 

Hmm where have I seen that before. 

 

Almost like they learned everything they know from the US…

 

 

Edited August 20 by DeNiro

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

Hmm where have I seen that before. 

 

Almost like they learned everything they know from the US…

 

 

 

Yes, I posted an article from the Japan Times, that stated Isreal, when supporting Hamas', was copying the US's support of the Mujahideen, the old enemy of my enemy is my friend. 

 

It is common knowledge that Isreal has supported Islamic fundamentalists in Gaza, even before Hamas' formed. 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

 

[Ilunga]

 

Israel has recovered the bodies of six of the hostages.

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c23lgy1k22zo

 

Five were known to be dead, one was thought to still be alive, sadly that was not the case. 

 

There is nothing good about your loved ones being murdered, however I hope this brings some sort of peace to their families.

 

 

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

12 hours ago, 24K said:

First hamas want a permanent cease fire. This is only a temporary one that essentially give leverage away from Hamas and allows Israel to re group and rehabilitate their image a bit before continuing on with the slightest form of provocation. 

 

Second, IDF will not completely withdraw from Gaza as under this deal, Isralie retain control of the Netzarium Corridor preventing freedom of movement between southern and northern. Gaza.

 

Third and probabaly the most consequencial, this deal will give Israel indefinite control over the Philidalphia corridor that connects Gaza to Egypt effectively making Gaza a literal Israli open air prison as Israel will have total control of movement of Palestinians and the movement of goods and aids. Israel ain't beating that apartheid ruling with this one. 

 

https://www.axios.com/2024/08/18/hamas-rejects-us-ceasefire-hostage-proposal

 

What exactly is Hamas offering to the peace process?

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Bob Long]

4 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

What exactly is Hamas offering to the peace process?

 

I'm going to go ahead and guess free elections are off the table.

[Yoshiyoshi]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'm going to go ahead and guess free elections are off the table.

They are offering 2 for 1 rocket strikes in a limited time offer

[Taxi]

13 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

Yes, I posted an article from the Japan Times, that stated Isreal, when supporting Hamas', was copying the US's support of the Mujahideen, the old enemy of my enemy is my friend. 

 

It is common knowledge that Isreal has supported Islamic fundamentalists in Gaza, even before Hamas' formed. 

 

 

 

Common knowledge? Israel has opposed all militant groups. They gave some support to the Muslims Brotherhood, after the Muslim Brotherhood had denounced violence. They then arrested Yassin as soon as he was caught with weapons and opposed Hamas ever since. 

[Taxi]

16 hours ago, Ilunga said:

@Taxi

 

This New York Times article is dated 1981

 

This llustrates how far back Isreal started funding the radical Islamists, and their reasons for doing so.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/03/28/world/under-gaza-s-calm-surface-death-drugs-intrigue.html

 

" But the Islamic fundamentalists are also receiving some Isreali aid, General Segev said. " The Isreali government gave me a budget, and the military government gives to the mosques " explained the the General, who was a military attached at the Isreali embassy in Tehran before the Islamic revolution there. The funds are both used for mosques and religious schools, with the purpose of strengthening a force that runs counter to the pro PLO leftists " 

 

So by funding the radical Islamists, Israel not only helped them to become an organisation that would in the future attack Isreal, they helped the Islamists force their Ideology on Palestinians', as opposed to the secular PLO. 

 

Israels actions hurt both the Israeli and Palestinian people. 

 

Once again. They gave very limited to support to religious, and other, Palestinian groups who denounced violence. As soon as Hamas got caught with weapons, Israel immediately began arrested and attacking their leadership. You piecing together conspiracies from random one off articles over the course of 50 years does not amount to Israel creating Hamas.

[Ilunga]

4 hours ago, Taxi said:

 

Common knowledge? Israel has opposed all militant groups. They gave some support to the Muslims Brotherhood, after the Muslim Brotherhood had denounced violence. They then arrested Yassin as soon as he was caught with weapons and opposed Hamas ever since. 

 

" For years Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now its blown up in our faces "

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

 

 

[Ilunga]

4 hours ago, Taxi said:

 

Once again. They gave very limited to support to religious, and other, Palestinian groups who denounced violence. As soon as Hamas got caught with weapons, Israel immediately began arrested and attacking their leadership. You piecing together conspiracies from random one off articles over the course of 50 years does not amount to Israel creating Hamas.

 

All these Isreali sources don't agree with you dude 

 

" A Brief history of the Netanyahu - Hamas Alliance" 

 

" For 14 years Netanyahu's policy was to keep Hamas in power; The pogrom of October 7 2023 helps the Israeli Prime Minister preserve his own rule "

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000

 

" Much ink has been spilled the long time relationship - rather, alliance - between Netanyahu and Hamas. And still the very fact that there has been close cooperation between the Isreali Prime Minister ( with the support of many on the right ) and the fundamentalist organisation seemingly evaporated from most of the current analyses " 

 

Keep on posting taxi.

 

You lose more credibility with every post.

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]