Hamas attacking Israel

[Optimist Prime]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

we really need something like an AI watermark, or some sort of verifiable method, for information now. So many people willing to push fake crap it just hurts the people we need to try to help. 

 

The world needed this for decades before this past week, and we still need it, but it is impossible. 

The lack of a photo showing a baby without a head does not negate the Truth that women, children, men and babies were murdered in the hundreds 11 days ago. 

[Coconuts]

12 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

we really need something like an AI watermark, or some sort of verifiable method, for information now. So many people willing to push fake crap it just hurts the people we need to try to help. 

 

 

I get what you're saying but I wouldn't be surprised if certain governments, including the US government, wouldn't be on board with such a thing. 

 

All we have to do is look at American politics over the past few years to see how effectively disinformation can be used. And I mean, if you look into the history of American intelligence agencies, particularly abroad, they aren't angels. 

 

Verification could potentially limit the effectiveness of propaganda. And I mean, combating propaganda seems like a good thing to do, but governments participate in distributing it themselves. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Coconuts

[Bob Long]

24 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I get what you're saying but I wouldn't be surprised if certain governments, including the US government, wouldn't be on board with such a thing. 

 

All we have to do is look at American politics over the past few years to see how effectively disinformation can be used. And I mean, if you look into the history of American intelligence agencies, particularly abroad, they aren't angels. 

 

Verification could potentially limit the effectiveness of propaganda. And I mean, combating propaganda seems like a good thing to do, but governments participate in distributing it themselves. 

 

I'm not sure they will have a choice, companies like Google may need/choose to move ahead with it anyway (e.g., https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/08/29/1078620/google-deepmind-has-launched-a-watermarking-tool-for-ai-generated-images/). 

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'm not sure they will have a choice, companies like Google may need/choose to move ahead with it anyway (e.g., https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/08/29/1078620/google-deepmind-has-launched-a-watermarking-tool-for-ai-generated-images/). 

 

Huh, that is intriguing, I suppose billion dollar companies can only be wrangled so much 

[Bob Long]

Just now, Coconuts said:

 

Huh, that is intriguing, I suppose billion dollar companies can only be wrangled so much 

 

its in Google's interest to be seen as a source of truth, whereas some governments.... maybe less so. 

[CBH1926]

58 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

In general. So from the start of the terrorist operation we heard claims of beheaded babies, rape, etc. Like the individual in the video with PM that I posted  He's not insinuating It's not true but would like to see proof. This is like the Iraq war all over again in my opinion. Just believe what we are saying.

As the old saying goes, “the first casualty of every war it’s the truth” 

I remember that story from 1990 about Iraqi soldiers taking babies out of incubators. It proved to be false later but I digress.

I am not saying that this case is the same but lying and disinformation is very common during any conflict.

[Shift-4]

 

Sharpshooter?

 

Spoiler

@Sharpshooter  I think you aimed for wrong thread

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Shift-4

[Bob Long]

 

not to be picky but why is this here?

 

 

Whoopsie Daisies

Edited October 17, 2023 by Sharpshooter
Brainfart

[Sharpshooter]

4 minutes ago, Shift-4 said:

 

Sharpshooter?

 

  Hide contents

@Sharpshooter  I think you aimed for wrong thread

 

Misfire

[Shift-4]

Just now, Sharpshooter said:

Misfire

[Riddikulus]

2 hours ago, Bob Long said:

I'm still struggling to see what choice Israel has. Hamas has to be eliminated for everyone's sake including Palestinians.

The Americans said they had no choice but to go to war against terrorism and after spending trillions and killing millions of people the Taliban is now more influential than ever before and Saddam has been replaced by ISIL.

 

Also we need to stop pretending that any of this being done for the sake of Palestinians. You cannot drop bombs on people and claim that you are liberating them. Actually never mind, you can just call it 'freedom'.

 

2 hours ago, Bob Long said:

How do you eliminate something like Hamas, or at least drive it down to a shell of what it was, without at least a brief occupation and ground invasion?

Simply put... you cannot, it's like fighting a hydra, the moment you cut off one head, two more sprout in its place. The same will happen with Hamas, something more sinister will replace it. The people that will suffer the most are the Palestinian civilians, just like those in Iraq and Afghanistan did.

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, Riddikulus said:

The Americans said they had no choice but to go to war against terrorism and after spending trillions and killing millions of people the Taliban is now more influential than ever before and Saddam has been replaced by ISIL.

 

Also we need to stop pretending that any of this being done for the sake of Palestinians. You cannot drop bombs on people and claim that you are liberating them. Actually never mind, you can just call it 'freedom'.

 

Simply put... you cannot, it's like fighting a hydra, the moment you cut off one head, two more sprout in its place. The same will happen with Hamas, something more sinister will replace it. The people that will suffer the most are the Palestinian civilians, just like those in Iraq and Afghanistan did.

 

I disagree, you can sometimes get rid of the worst parts of a situation and make life better for some places. Is that Palestine? we'll see. 

 

[Optimist Prime]

3 minutes ago, Riddikulus said:

The Americans said they had no choice but to go to war against terrorism and after spending trillions and killing millions of people the Taliban is now more influential than ever before and Saddam has been replaced by ISIL.

 

Also we need to stop pretending that any of this being done for the sake of Palestinians. You cannot drop bombs on people and claim that you are liberating them. Actually never mind, you can just call it 'freedom'.

 

Simply put... you cannot, it's like fighting a hydra, the moment you cut off one head, two more sprout in its place. The same will happen with Hamas, something more sinister will replace it. The people that will suffer the most are the Palestinian civilians, just like those in Iraq and Afghanistan did.

No one wants Palestinians in Gaza to suffer, not the Israeli Government, not the USA, not me, not you. No one here as stated any such thing.

 

My question to you is how do we stop Hamas from firing rockets and murdering innocent people outside the Gaza border? It is painfully obvious that dislodging Hamas murderers from their seats and firing positions hurts Palestinians.

Asking if you have any other suggestions besides moving civilians out of Gaza City and destroying Hamas where they stand there? I can't think of another way other than continue to suffer the rockets fired at random civilians from rooftops in Gaza. 

[Scottish Canuck 2.0]

Of course, we all know the best way to eliminate Hamas is to kill 500 civilians by bombing a hospital. Textbook defending themselves.

 

At what point does someone step in here and urge Netanyahu to stop? Imagine that was Ukraine. Russia would have been condemned the second it happened, and rightly so.

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Scottish Canuck 2.0 said:

Of course, we all know the best way to eliminate Hamas is to kill 500 civilians by bombing a hospital. Textbook defending themselves.

 

At what point does someone step in here and urge Netanyahu to stop? Imagine that was Ukraine. Russia would have been condemned the second it happened, and rightly so.

The IDF are trying to figure out if this was one of their bombs or if it was a Hamas Rocket that failed to launch. I lean towards Israeli bombing, but I have not seen proof either way yet.

[Ryan Strome]

^^^ omg

[24K]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

The IDF are trying to figure out if this was one of their bombs or if it was a Hamas Rocket that failed to launch. I lean towards Israeli bombing, but I have not seen proof either way yet.

If it is the IDF then that is some genocidal behavior right there. 

 

Ask Palestinians to evacuate from norther Gaza to the south and them proceed to bomb their shelter afterwards. Concentrate then eliminate. That is what the Nazi did. 

 

This pretty much ensures that something worse than Hamas is gonna pop up. Israel just created a whole new generation of extremist if they did it. 

[Ryan Strome]

14 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I disagree, you can sometimes get rid of the worst parts of a situation and make life better for some places. Is that Palestine? we'll see. 

 

Where has that ever worked since Germany in world war II?

10 minutes ago, Scottish Canuck 2.0 said:

Of course, we all know the best way to eliminate Hamas is to kill 500 civilians by bombing a hospital. Textbook defending themselves.

 

At what point does someone step in here and urge Netanyahu to stop? Imagine that was Ukraine. Russia would have been condemned the second it happened, and rightly so.

This is the most ridiculous part is seeing some of these people Especially the guy who's the most emotional about it all. Say what they say about Russia and then totally ignore the facts about what Israel is doing. I don't even know if it's sad or if it is flat out  pathetic.

1 minute ago, 24K said:

If it is the IDF then that is some genocidal behavior right there. 

 

Ask Palestinians to evacuate from norther Gaza to the south and them proceed to bomb their shelter afterwards. Concentrate then eliminate. That is what the Nazi did. 

 

This pretty much ensures that something worse than Hamas is gonna pop up. Israel just created a whole new generation of extremist if they did it. 

Of course it's the IDF They have done this sort of stuff in the past. But I'm willing to bet as they internally investigate it They will claim it wasn't them..

Edited October 17, 2023 by Ryan Strome

[Optimist Prime]

4 minutes ago, 24K said:

If it is the IDF then that is some genocidal behavior right there. 

 

Ask Palestinians to evacuate from norther Gaza to the south and them proceed to bomb their shelter afterwards. Concentrate then eliminate. That is what the Nazi did. 

 

This pretty much ensures that something worse than Hamas is gonna pop up. Israel just created a whole new generation of extremist if they did it. 

Totally, it doesn't fit any objective of Israel unless Hamas was concentrated in the hospital and/or their rockets stockpiles were in the hospital. Terrible strike that will certainly cost them polititical capital, even if it was a legitimate target against Hamas leadership/fighters/arms caches. 

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Where has that ever worked since Germany in world war II?

 

Is that really so long ago?

 

We had a chance to do it right in Afghanistan but f'd that up.

 

5 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

This is the most ridiculous part is seeing some of these people Especially the guy who's the most emotional about it all. Say what they say about Russia and then totally ignore the facts about what Israel is doing. I don't even know if it's sad or if it is flat out  pathetic.

Of course it's the IDF They have done this sort of stuff in the past. But I'm willing to bet as they internally investigate it They will claim it wasn't them..

 

[Optimist Prime]

UN aid being distributed in Khan Unis, Gaza Strip, datestamped yesterday. 

[Riddikulus]

3 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

No one wants Palestinians in Gaza to suffer, not the Israeli Government, not the USA, not me, not you. No one here as stated any such thing.

The only people who want people to suffer are sociopaths but that doesn't mean that those are the only people who are the cause of all suffering.

 

There is little to no value for the civilian lives in Gaza. My life nor yours, nor the USA nor the Israeli government is impacted by a few thousand civilians dying in Gaza. As Bill Maher put it, its just "collateral damage".

3 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

My question to you is how do we stop Hamas from firing rockets and murdering innocent people outside the Gaza border? It is painfully obvious that dislodging Hamas murderers from their seats and firing positions hurts Palestinians.

Asking if you have any other suggestions besides moving civilians out of Gaza City and destroying Hamas where they stand there? I can't think of another way other than continue to suffer the rockets fired at random civilians from rooftops in Gaza. 

There is no answer other than Israel cedes land that have taken by force or the complete annihilation of Palestine. Why won't people forced into apartheid conditions turn to extremism?

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Riddikulus said:

The only people who want people to suffer are sociopaths but that doesn't mean that those are the only people who are the cause of all suffering.

 

There is little to no value for the civilian lives in Gaza. My life nor yours, nor the USA nor the Israeli government is impacted by a few thousand civilians dying in Gaza. As Bill Maher put it, its just "collateral damage".

There is no answer other than Israel cedes land that have taken by force or the complete annihilation of Palestine. Why won't people forced into apartheid conditions turn to extremism?

We both know that simply won't happen. I am not against it happening, I am a realist without a time machine. Is there any real option to stop Hamas from killing Israeli's other than rooting them out and forcing their population to give them up? 

I don't see one.

[eeeeeeeeergh]

Just now, Riddikulus said:

The only people who want people to suffer are sociopaths but that doesn't mean that those are the only people who are the cause of all suffering.

 

There is little to no value for the civilian lives in Gaza. My life nor yours, nor the USA nor the Israeli government is impacted by a few thousand civilians dying in Gaza. As Bill Maher put it, its just "collateral damage".

There is no answer other than Israel cedes land that have taken by force or the complete annihilation of Palestine. Why won't people forced into apartheid conditions turn to extremism?

Arab lives have been worth barely a fraction of non-arab lives for the past few decades. 

 

Think most people here who treat the US/Israel/UK like "civilized" countries and pretend that they've followed humanitarian principles/international law are lying to themselves.

[eeeeeeeeergh]

Just now, Optimist Prime said:

We both know that simply won't happen. I am not against it happening, I am a realist without a time machine. Is there any real option to stop Hamas from killing Israeli's other than rooting them out and forcing their population to give them up? 

I don't see one.

Let the arabs who were depopulated go back home to their villages and towns that they were cleansed out of by israel. thats the only answer, or violence will continue.