Hamas attacking Israel

[UnkNuk]

3 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Apparently Saudi Arabia cut their peace negotiations with Israel and are actually quite disappointed with the US response to all this. While I would agree with much of what you were saying, war has a funny way of snowballing out of control.

 

Especially if the Saudi 'man in the street' begins to get involved.

Edited October 17, 2023 by UnkNuk

[Elias Pettersson]

3 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

In general. So from the start of the terrorist operation we heard claims of beheaded babies, rape, etc. Like the individual in the video with PM that I posted  He's not insinuating It's not true but would like to see proof. This is like the Iraq war all over again in my opinion. Just believe what we are saying.

 

Why would women and girls film themselves getting raped?  How exactly do you get proof on that besides eye witness testimony?  Do young people at music festival usually film themselves getting murdered?  

 

This is one thing that confuses me...

[RupertKBD]

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I watched Amanpour for years.  I also watched the Gulf war.  What we were told by CNN and the rest of the mainstream media as well as the US government were all lies.  1 million innocent Iraqi people were killed because of a lie. 

 

So you can't post anything to back up your claim?

 

I too have watched Amanpour for years. (and I'd be willing to bet that I'm a lot older than you) I don't recall her ever claiming that Iraq had WMDs. If the Bush Admin was claiming it, CNN would have reported that, but it doesn't mean they were the ones making the claim.

 

So again: If you have any actual sources, (other than your memory of having watched) lets see them.....

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Why would women and girls film themselves getting raped?  How exactly do you get proof on that besides eye witness testimony?  Do young people at music festival usually film themselves getting murdered?  

 

This is one thing that confuses me...

But media outlets are claiming they have seen beheaded babies. They are claiming They have seen things but won't share the proof. So should I just believe anything anybody tells me? I once met a person that told me the Holocaust was all made up. Should I believe that?

[Playoff Beered]

8 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Exactly. Apparently the individual you are quoting is a veteran of the Canadian armed forces. I will fully think that he knows the rocket could not do that damage.

 And that's why he specifically said if it was, it was due to ammo storage, but you know that. Your twisting of people words is really something. 

[Ryan Strome]

2 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 And that's why he specifically said if it was, it was due to ammo storage, but you know that. Your twisting of people words is really something.

No he didn't. Not in the video he posted. But also are you some sort of backup or security personnel? What exactly are you doing?

[RomanPer]

1 hour ago, 24K said:

If it is the IDF then that is some genocidal behavior right there. 

 

Ask Palestinians to evacuate from norther Gaza to the south and them proceed to bomb their shelter afterwards. Concentrate then eliminate. That is what the Nazi did. 

 

This pretty much ensures that something worse than Hamas is gonna pop up. Israel just created a whole new generation of extremist if they did it. 

 

If it is IDF then it's a horrible mistake and someone on the Israeli side will answer for it. Obviously, it doesn't excuse it, but it's slightly different situation than targeting it deliberately.

[Optimist Prime]

Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.^[1] People display this bias when they select information that supports their views, ignoring contrary information, or when they interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing attitudes. The effect is strongest for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs. Confirmation bias is insuperable for most people, but they can manage it, for example, by education and training in critical thinking skills.

[Ryan Strome]

Thank you for explaining your position. I appreciate it

[24K]

1 minute ago, RomanPer said:

 

If it is IDF then it's a horrible mistake and someone on the Israeli side will answer for it. Obviously, it doesn't excuse it, but it's slightly different situation than targeting it deliberately.

And how do we know if it is not deliberate? 

[Ryan Strome]

@Playoff Beered my apologies, I see in a later post he did say that "I know" They have been stockpiling weapons in these places. I guess I would first need to know how he knows this.

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, 24K said:

And how do we know if it is not deliberate? 

Because Israel doesn't do anything bad silly, come on Keep up.

[Coconuts]

43 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Again, that is a nice thought, but it is 100% fantasy. Israel will not move to have that happen. The hope that the 1.2 million Gazans born in Gaza over the last 25 years can reclaim thier grandfathers homes is a false hope. I am not the bad guy for saying the truth, it is simply not possible, Israel will not do that.  What we need is a real solution to save lives on both sides, quickly. 

 

If Israel is unwilling to budge and do what much of the international community has been calling them to do for years, which is stopping the blockade, stopping the apartheid conditions, and working towards a two nation solution, nothing will change. 

 

If Israel is set on trying to root out Hamas and the resuming the status quo of what went on before the most recent attacks they will only fuel the monster they've contributed to creating in Hamas. If not in the form of Hamas, then in whatever steps in to take it's place. 

 

Unless Israel plays a large role in any solution in a form that is collaborative and non-oppressive then the cycle will likely continue. You can't continue to blockade the Palestinian people in what's often been called the world's largest open-air prison, control resources such as power, water, fuel, and food, continue to encroach upon and annex territory, desecrate places of worship, and then not expect resistance or retaliation of some kind. 

[RomanPer]

2 minutes ago, 24K said:

And how do we know if it is not deliberate? 

 

You don't, I do. Can't convince you otherwise.

[Elias Pettersson]

21 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

So you can't post anything to back up your claim?

 

I too have watched Amanpour for years. (and I'd be willing to bet that I'm a lot older than you) I don't recall her ever claiming that Iraq had WMDs. If the Bush Admin was claiming it, CNN would have reported that, but it doesn't mean they were the ones making the claim.

 

So again: If you have any actual sources, (other than your memory of having watched) lets see them.....

 

She was pumping the US tires on the lie in 2002...

 

CNN.com - Christiane Amanpour: Iraq says it sought weapons components - Dec. 2, 2002

 

AMANPOUR: Officials (say) they are awaiting ... further information by the time of the December 8 declaration -- when Iraq has to come up with a full, formal and credible list of information about its weapons of mass destruction program.

But what we've been told by a high-ranking official is that Iraq, during meetings with U.N. weapons inspectors in Baghdad two weeks ago, did admit to having tried to import aluminum tubes. This would amount to a violation of the existing U.N. sanctions.

 

Of course, she presents an anonymous source, typical with the mainstream media.  It's always a "high ranking official" to make it sound legit...

 

Here she is pumping the lie again...

 

CNN.com - Christiane Amanpour: Reaction to Bush's 'axis of evil' warning - January 30, 2002

 

AMANPOUR: When President Bush described North Korea, Iraq and Iran as "an axis of evil," that was the sharpest and harshest language any U.S. administration has used yet to describe those countries.

In the past, they have been described as "rogue states," with accusations of them building nuclear weapons, weapons of mass destruction or at least pursuing that technology and indeed supporting terrorism.

 

Did she actually say out of her mouth, 'Yes, I believe Iraq has weapons of mass destruction"?  No, she did not.  Of course she wouldn't say that on the record.  But her and all of the others in the mainstream media kept pushing the war machine every day for months until Iraq was obliterated and 1 million innocent people killed.

 

Then, a few months later, it's like oops we are sorry, they didn't really have these weapons...

Edited October 17, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Playoff Beered]

8 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

No he didn't. Not in the video he posted. But also are you some sort of backup or security personnel? What exactly are you doing?

 

Calling out bullshit.

[Elias Pettersson]

14 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

But media outlets are claiming they have seen beheaded babies. They are claiming They have seen things but won't share the proof. So should I just believe anything anybody tells me? I once met a person that told me the Holocaust was all made up. Should I believe that?

 

So you don't believe eye witness testimony?  There are many testimonials on X talking about the rape and murder of those kids at the music festival.  The 40 beheaded babies was disproven and acknowledged, but there were still babies that were killed...

[Optimist Prime]

7 minutes ago, 24K said:

And how do we know if it is not deliberate? 

What does Israel have to gain from such a strike if it was deliberate? Nothing, and global support to lose if it was. 

What does Hamas have to gain from such a strike if it was deliberate? They can blame Israel and help turn global opinion in their favour. 

Again, i don't see any reason for Israel doing this unless it was a concentration of Hamas and/or their weapons caches. 

We know Hamas care nothing for the people of Gaza under their authority. Until I see proof either way, i will assume this was either an accident or something done by Hamas to inflame the arab nations to fight Israel. The balance of probabilities is a tough thing to hash out, but hamas gains most by having this hospital bombed by Israel. That is clear. 

[Ryan Strome]

3 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Calling out bullshit.

No you aren't. I went by the video that was posted. I had to keep reading to see that he responded to that later. But it wasn't in the initial video. So had I of not received your response I never would have checked again. I'm actually coming to the end with this thread. Look at what Roman just said. We don't know if it's deliberate but he knows it wasn't. This is what some are using as facts now somebody That is Jewish gets to speak for everything Jewish in the world. It's the same as in the Russia thread Half of what is posted is bs yet it's treated as the gospel because it's against Russia. Actually you know what I am going to take a break from this thread. Let's all Hope for peace in the middle East 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Ryan Strome

[Riddikulus]

6 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

You don't, I do. Can't convince you otherwise.

With all due to respect none of us actually "know". We can only guess and speculate. Unless you were actually involved you don't really have any knowledge of what occurred.

[Calamity K]

39 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Common sense gets lost while attempting to defend the Israelis. This isn't the first time but hopefully it will be one of the last times.

Common sense says the last place the Israelis would want to hit is a hospital. It's perfect for Hamas propaganda, and they believe in martyrdom and human shields.  Hamas bombing their own is the most likely explanation imo.

[Warhippy]

9 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

You don't, I do. Can't convince you otherwise.

That is an incredibly bold statement that will need proof.  Sorry mate.  Your insistence of KNOWING that it was a mistake vs not deliberate based on either false information or malicious intent needs to be justified.

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

10 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

If Israel is unwilling to budge and do what much of the international community has been calling them to do for years, which is stopping the blockade, stopping the apartheid conditions, and working towards a two nation solution, nothing will change. 

 

If Israel is set on trying to root out Hamas and the resuming the status quo of what went on before the most recent attacks they will only fuel the monster they've contributed to creating in Hamas. If not in the form of Hamas, then in whatever steps in to take it's place. 

 

Unless Israel plays a large role in any solution in a form that is collaborative and non-oppressive then the cycle will likely continue. You can't continue to blockade the Palestinian people in what's often been called the world's largest open-air prison, control resources such as power, water, fuel, and food, continue to encroach upon and annex territory, desecrate places of worship, and then not expect resistance or retaliation of some kind. 

We largely agree.

[Ryan Strome]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

So you don't believe eye witness testimony?  There are many testimonials on X talking about the rape and murder of those kids at the music festival.  The 40 beheaded babies was disproven and acknowledged, but there were still babies that were killed...

As I said, I'm going to take a break from this thread. You are correct It was disproven but when the president of the United States claimed it did happen and he seen the photos, do you think that's swayed a lot of people? And no, I witness testimony is questionable at best always. This is why courtrooms generally ask for evidence.

Just now, Warhippy said:

That is an incredibly bold statement that will need proof.  Sorry mate.  Your insistence of KNOWING that it was a mistake vs not deliberate based on either false information or malicious intent needs to be justified.

 

 

No, it doesn't. He's Jewish try to keep up.

[24K]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

What does Israel have to gain from such a strike if it was deliberate? Nothing, and global support to lose if it was. 

What does Hamas have to gain from such a strike if it was deliberate? They can blame Israel and help turn global opinion in their favour. 

Again, i don't see any reason for Israel doing this unless it was a concentration of Hamas and/or their weapons caches. 

We know Hamas care nothing for the people of Gaza under their authority. Until I see proof either way, i will assume this was either an accident or something done by Hamas to inflame the arab nations to fight Israel. The balance of probabilities is a tough thing to hash out, but hamas gains most by having this hospital bombed by Israel. That is clear. 

Key word is deliberate. An accident means someone misread a map or entered a wrong coordinate. 

 

Deliberate means acting on correct or incorrect intel on the best case. In this case intel of large number of hamas concentrated there. Credible case is radicals acting independently within IDF that wanted blood. Worst case is gonvernment direct orders. 

 

Deliberate does not fully equate to policy.