Ilunga Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 32 minutes ago, eeeeeeeeergh said: I legit cant believe theres people eating up the IDF propaganda 1. They took responsibility for it, then deleted the tweet 2. They had issued an evacuation order for the hospital 3. PIJ rockets are miserable wretched explosives without anywhere near the payload to level a massive hospital This was a fucking Israeli air strike, ofc they're walking it back now that they've seen the reaction, but this is not the first time the IDF has bombed a hospital, school, or other civilian target. It happened in 2014 too, just that nobody was paying attention in 2014. You have to stop with this no one is paying attention stuff brother. I have been paying attention to this conflict all my adult life. I have brought up most of the things you have brought up in a thread on the old board. As I stated, while I am an Australian, I have ties to this conflict. Many others have also had concerns for the plight of the Palestinians for decades. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 35 minutes ago, eeeeeeeeergh said: I legit cant believe theres people eating up the IDF propaganda 1. They took responsibility for it, then deleted the tweet 2. They had issued an evacuation order for the hospital 3. PIJ rockets are miserable wretched explosives without anywhere near the payload to level a massive hospital This was a fucking Israeli air strike, ofc they're walking it back now that they've seen the reaction, but this is not the first time the IDF has bombed a hospital, school, or other civilian target. It happened in 2014 too, just that nobody was paying attention in 2014. I'm trying to be as neutral as possible but I have a hard time believing that the IDF purposely bombed the hospital. There is going to have to be some very compelling evidence to show this is the case in order for me to believe it. All I see are the same posters posting the same rhetoric with zero actual evidence... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeeeeeergh Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 minute ago, Ilunga said: You have to stop with this no one is paying attention stuff brother. I have been paying attention to this conflict all my adult life. I have brought up most of the things you have brought up in a thread on the old board. As I stated, while I am an Australian, I have ties to this conflict. Many others have also had concerns for the plight of the Palestinians for decades. i need to be more precise with my words, people were definitely paying attention but theres a difference between the attention then, vs now probably 5-10% of people then 80-90% now the horror of the Hamas terrorist attack on oct 7 has brought this front and center in a way that it hasn't been since the 40s and 50s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 10 minutes ago, Provost said: It was a BBC video and reporter, not some posturing by some random Twitter dude. Nice try. I'm only trying to find truth, and if you bring a shite source I'll call you on it. I don't care if it has some BBC in it, that Hinkle guy is shite and the furthest you can get from neutrality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guntrix Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 minute ago, Playoff Beered said: I'm only trying to find truth, and if you bring a shite source I'll call you on it. I don't care if it has some BBC in it, that Hinkle guy is shite and the furthest you can get from neutrality. So you don't care about the actual source? Convenient. There's been a lot of very dodgy sources posted here over the last few days from posters who auto-proclaim neutrality. Jon Donnison is better than all of them in terms of credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, eeeeeeeeergh said: From the official IDF Arabic page (now deleted) If you believe that is the official account then your a moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 The truth will come out. Not the time to cast blame tonight. Tonight is time to mourn the victims and their families..... War is hell..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeeeeeergh Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said: If you believe that is the official account then your a moron. I deleted my post in about 30 seconds after looking at the email address attached to the fb page, but hello to you too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 6 minutes ago, eeeeeeeeergh said: I deleted my post in about 30 seconds after looking at the email address attached to the fb page, but hello to you too The irony after you just saying "I legit cant believe theres people eating up the IDF propaganda" an hour ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 13 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I'm trying to be as neutral as possible but I have a hard time believing that the IDF purposely bombed the hospital. There is going to have to be some very compelling evidence to show this is the case in order for me to believe it. All I see are the same posters posting the same rhetoric with zero actual evidence... IDF has proven inconsistent and has obvious bias in this conflict given that they’re one side of it. It could be true but they’ve given reason not to believe them before. They are gonna need an outside source like US intelligence to help confirm what they have provided. I would be weary until then. A lot of disinformation has been going on with both sides. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 53 minutes ago, eeeeeeeeergh said: "An airstrike in Deir al Balah reduced a house to rubble, killing a man and 11 women and children inside and in a neighboring house, some of whom had evacuated from Gaza City. Witnesses said there was no warning before the strike." "Shelling from Israeli tanks hit a U.N. school in central Gaza where 4,000 Palestinians had taken refuge, killing six people and wounding dozens, the United Nations Palestinian refugee agency said. At least 24 U.N. installations have been hit the past week, killing at least 14 members of the agency’s staff." Fucking monsters absolutely no better than Hamas. They're not angels, but calling them no better than Hamas is overkill. The Israeli leadership needs to stand crime for war crimes. Hamas' leadership simply needs to be exterminated like the vermin they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guntrix Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: IDF has proven inconsistent and has obvious bias in this conflict given that they’re one side of it. It could be true but they’ve given reason not to believe them before. They are gonna need an outside source like US intelligence to help confirm what they have provided. I would be weary until then. A lot of disinformation has been going on with both sides. What? An ally? The equivalent of this would be Hamas asking Iranian intelligence to confirm their side of the story. Edited October 18, 2023 by Guntrix 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I'm trying to be as neutral as possible but I have a hard time believing that the IDF purposely bombed the hospital. There is going to have to be some very compelling evidence to show this is the case in order for me to believe it. All I see are the same posters posting the same rhetoric with zero actual evidence... Quite frankly, the most likely explanation is an accidental strike by Israel. When you drop thousands of bombs, even advanced laser guided ones, on a small built up area… you are going to sometimes hit things you didn’t mean to. Israel isn’t arguing they are heavily bombing Gaza, and we have seen countless videos from aid groups and independent 3rd parties showing it. There have been other reports of bombs hitting nearby buildings. They aren’t infallible, the targeting is done by humans. The pilot or targeting craft could have just painted the wrong building. Eminently plausible and that sort of thing isn’t uncommon. Even screwing up 1% of the 6,000 bombs Israel has said it has dropped in the last week mean 60 hit the wrong target. The videos being shown, if true, show a high explosive bomb. Not a misfired Qassam rocket. Not a rocket and a secondary explosion from stored munitions. The reported casualties are just not in line with what Hamas rockets can produce. Even in a cramped place filled with refugees. It is possible those numbers aren’t true and are propaganda. Maybe most of them are from indirect secondary causes like fire or part of a structure falling. Not impossible. Those videos might not be accurate, or could show any of the other 5,999 bomb strikes and not the hospital. It could be another type of rocket used by one of the groups in Gaza. Here are some shots of the type of damage a Hamas Qassam rocket can do if it actually manages to hit something, which is rare. They are more akin to a big grenade and not a missile. They have a warhead filled with some explosive and ball bearings. Not bunker busters that are seriously damaging structures. Note in those pictures, structures and cars 20 feet away from a direct hit are unscathed. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 There is a surprising lack of photo and video evidence of such a large event. Where are the pics of the bomb cratered hospital and hundreds of bodies? Strange isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said: There is a surprising lack of photo and video evidence of such a large event. Where are the pics of the bomb cratered hospital and hundreds of bodies? Strange isn't it? I was just asking that myself. I mean wouldn't Hamas be posting these pictures all over X? A hospital was bombed and 500 people died and we have no evidence of who did it and no actual photos or videos of the rubble... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: I was just asking that myself. I mean wouldn't Hamas be posting these pictures all over X? A hospital was bombed and 500 people died and we have no evidence of who did it and no actual photos or videos of the rubble... Even Al Jazeera is just saying "According to Palestinian authority's" and not reporting any of this as fact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 7 minutes ago, Provost said: Quite frankly, the most likely explanation is an accidental strike by Israel. When you drop thousands of bombs, even advanced laser guided ones, on a small built up area… you are going to sometimes hit things you didn’t mean to. Israel isn’t arguing they are heavily bombing Gaza, and we have seen countless videos from aid groups and independent 3rd parties showing it. There have been other reports of bombs hitting nearby buildings. They aren’t infallible, the targeting is done by humans. The pilot or targeting craft could have just painted the wrong building. Eminently plausible and that sort of thing isn’t uncommon. Even screwing up 1% of the 6,000 bombs Israel has said it has dropped in the last week mean 60 hit the wrong target. The videos being shown, if true, show a high explosive bomb. Not a misfired Qassam rocket. Not a rocket and a secondary explosion from stored munitions. The reported casualties are just not in line with what Hamas rockets can produce. Even in a cramped place filled with refugees. It is possible those numbers aren’t true and are propaganda. Maybe most of them are from indirect secondary causes like fire or part of a structure falling. Not impossible. Those videos might not be accurate, or could show any of the other 5,999 bomb strikes and not the hospital. It could be another type of rocket used by one of the groups in Gaza. Here are some shots of the type of damage a Hamas Qassam rocket can do if it actually manages to hit something, which is rare. They are more akin to a big grenade and not a missile. They have a warhead filled with some explosive and ball bearings. Not bunker busters that are seriously damaging structures. Note in those pictures, structures and cars 20 feet away from a direct hit are unscathed. That is a fair point and it could very well be true. I am hoping there is actual incontrovertible evidence of what actually happened, but I doubt we will ever get that. I mean we don't even have any pictures of the hospital after it was bombed as of right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 6 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: IDF has proven inconsistent and has obvious bias in this conflict given that they’re one side of it. It could be true but they’ve given reason not to believe them before. They are gonna need an outside source like US intelligence to help confirm what they have provided. I would be weary until then. A lot of disinformation has been going on with both sides. I would need an outside source other than US intelligence. Their President is literally on his way to shake Netenyahu’s hand and the US has professed unconditional support for Israel. They don’t even have a functioning government and can’t agree to even fund their own government activities, but have a longstanding unlimited funding “pre-agreement” from all parties where the President can give whatever he wants to Israel. In a month you could be in a position where American soldiers fighting for Israel aren’t getting paid, but the US government is paying Israeli soldiers. That is how intertwined the US and Israel are, there is no daylight between them. The US pretty much has to accept whatever intelligence Israel provides as fact, matter if it is true or not. They can’t have their leader hugging and gladhanding Netenyahu and cronies 24hrs after they bombed a hospital. Facts are not going to matter in the face of convenient domestic and foreign policy posturing. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeeeeeergh Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, King Heffy said: They're not angels, but calling them no better than Hamas is overkill. The Israeli leadership needs to stand crime for war crimes. Hamas' leadership simply needs to be exterminated like the vermin they are. they executed a journalist shooting her in the head, denied it for a year, then after UN and US investigations confirmed it, finally admitted it, no soldiers were charged. they went village by village massacring civilians in 1948 to remove them from their homes (documented and a matter of historical records, they dont deny this) to this day they evict palestinians from their homes in the west bank and replace them with jewish settlers, effectively re-occupying that territory, because now they're forced to deploy the IDF to "protect" the settlers no better than hamas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnkNuk Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 This may be of limited interest to anyone but me but I was struck by the name of the hospital: the Al-Ahli BAPTIST Hospital. Why "Baptist" I thought. And I googled and found this: "The Gaza hospital where at least 500 people died in an Oct. 17 blast once was managed by Southern Baptist Convention missionaries. Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital has been in operation since 1882 and was founded by the Church Mission Society of the Church of England. From 1954 to 1982, it was managed by missionaries affiliated with the SBC Foreign Mission Board, now known as the International Mission Board. Since 1980, the hospital has been run by the Episcopal Church." https://baptistnews.com/article/gaza-hospital-hit-by-airstrike-was-run-by-baptists-for-three-decades/ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 11 minutes ago, Guntrix said: What? An ally? The equivalent of this would be Hamas asking Iranian intelligence to confirm their side of the story. There really isn't a neutral source for anything, that is the main problem in this propaganda war... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guntrix Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 There is definitely material on Twitter that claims to be from today's blast. But for lack of knowing whether it indeed pertains to the hospital bombing, I haven't posted it. Had this been a Hamas attack, this thread would be filled with "evidence." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeeeeeergh Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 minute ago, UnkNuk said: This may be of limited interest to anyone but me but I was struck by the name of the hospital: the Al-Ahli BAPTIST Hospital. Why "Baptist" I thought. And I googled and found this: "The Gaza hospital where at least 500 people died in an Oct. 17 blast once was managed by Southern Baptist Convention missionaries. Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital has been in operation since 1882 and was founded by the Church Mission Society of the Church of England. From 1954 to 1982, it was managed by missionaries affiliated with the SBC Foreign Mission Board, now known as the International Mission Board. Since 1980, the hospital has been run by the Episcopal Church." https://baptistnews.com/article/gaza-hospital-hit-by-airstrike-was-run-by-baptists-for-three-decades/ theres always been a large christian population in palestine https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/12/27/israel-behind-christian-exodus-from-palestine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, UnkNuk said: This may be of limited interest to anyone but me but I was struck by the name of the hospital: the Al-Ahli BAPTIST Hospital. Why "Baptist" I thought. And I googled and found this: "The Gaza hospital where at least 500 people died in an Oct. 17 blast once was managed by Southern Baptist Convention missionaries. Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital has been in operation since 1882 and was founded by the Church Mission Society of the Church of England. From 1954 to 1982, it was managed by missionaries affiliated with the SBC Foreign Mission Board, now known as the International Mission Board. Since 1980, the hospital has been run by the Episcopal Church." https://baptistnews.com/article/gaza-hospital-hit-by-airstrike-was-run-by-baptists-for-three-decades/ Founded a lot later that I thought. My initial thought was it was some Evangelical project as there is a weird theory that they believe that when the Jews control the holy land, Jesus will come back and send Christians to heaven or something like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 6 minutes ago, Guntrix said: There is definitely material on Twitter that claims to be from today's blast. But for lack of knowing whether it indeed pertains to the hospital bombing, I haven't posted it. Had this been a Hamas attack, this thread would be filled with "evidence." Why do you say that? There is literally nothing on Twitter to post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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