Hamas attacking Israel

[Playoff Beered]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

It is just so weird that people don’t believe what Israel is literally telling them.  They say they are engaging in a large scale bombing campaign in Gaza, many thousands so far according to them.  We see hundreds of videos confirming this is happening.  There is independent evidence of mass civilian casualties.

 

Pointless comment, could just turn it around and you would get the same reaction from the other side...

 

It is just so weird that people don’t believe what Hamas is literally telling them.  They say they are engaging in a large scale terror campaign in Isreal, many thousands killed so far according to them.  We see hundreds of videos confirming this is happening.  There is independent evidence of mass civilian casualties.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, moosehead said:

On Friday, Mr Gallant told a parliamentary committee that the first stage of the campaign was meant to destroy Hamas's infrastructure, according to a statement from his office.

 

Israeli forces, he added, would then launch "operations at lower intensity" to eliminate "pockets of resistance".

 

The third phase, he said, "will require the removal of Israel's responsibility for life in the Gaza Strip, and the establishment of a new security reality for the citizens of Israel".

 

Meanwhile Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has confirmed that he will join several world leaders at a summit in Cairo on Saturday aimed at achieving a ceasefire.

 

The event, hosted by Egyptian President Abdul Fattah al-Sisi, will involve talks on trying to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict based on a two-state solution.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67175094

 

Those attending will also include Mr Guterres and representatives from the EU, as well as several Arab and European countries.

 

'remove Israels responsibility'.... That's curious wording.

 

What does that look like?

[Optimist Prime]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

'remove Israels responsibility'.... That's curious wording.

 

What does that look like?

I maybe watched a different presser, in the one i watched phase 3 was setting up a new regime that would take the place of Hamas in leading the people of Gaza. 

[Bob Long]

Just now, Optimist Prime said:

I maybe watched a different presser, in the one i watched phase 3 was setting up a new regime that would take the place of Hamas in leading the people of Gaza. 

 

I hope so. If it also means setting up Gaza with its own independent infrastructure for power that would be good.

 

[RomanPer]

3 hours ago, Boudrias said:

The ME saw how ISIS was dealt with. Hamas and Hezbollah realize they are in the crosshairs. The neighborhood is not rising in support of Hamas and Hezbollah. Their propaganda arms are raising the threat of ME war but that appears pretty empty. Not unlike the threats that Russia were using against Ukraine. Even Tehran must realize that they can be wiped out in an afternoon. The carrier groups; Ford and Eisenhower in the Mediterranean and Reagan and Roosevelt in the Indian Ocean. Iran is not a unified country and has spent the last year killing its own people in street riots. Syria is a shambles. Lebanon is not united with many hating Hezbollah.

 

Egypt, Jordan, Oman and UAE have peace with Israel. Saudi Arabia, Morocco and Bahrain have serious economic trade already and inch toward a formal accord.  

This is what Hamas and Hezbollah fear the most. The Sunni Arab world working with Israel. Saudi Arabia wants a Middle East trading block that runs from the Indian Ocean to the Mediterranean. Israel is a world leader in tech and can be a critical part of Saudi Arabia's ambitions. Combine that with the Sunni and Israeli fear of Iran armed with nukes and you have cause for an alliance.    

 

There's a Russian-speaking war reporter and analyst from Israel, Sergey Auslender, who was covering the war in Ukraine in depth since February 2022. Obviously, now he switched primarily to the Israel-Hamas war. His latest report was specifically about about the situation in the West Bank. And being Israeli war reporter has has connections all around Israeli Security forces (IDF, Mossad, Shin Bet, etc.). Since all his reports are in Russian (Telegram and YouTube), here's my translation to English: "Everything is relatively quiet in the West Bank, at least for now. People there are afraid, but the message to the right people was delivered - "if you stay quiet, no one will touch you". At the same time, an armed person will be taken down immediately, without warning shots or screams".

[Optimist Prime]

14 minutes ago, moosehead said:

Meanwhile Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has confirmed that he will join several world leaders at a summit in Cairo on Saturday aimed at achieving a ceasefire.

 

The event, hosted by Egyptian President Abdul Fattah al-Sisi, will involve talks on trying to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict based on a two-state solution.

 

I am not for or against a two state solution, but I am in favour of the PA taking interim leadership roles for the people of Gaza. In my mind a possible two state solution would not have worked well if one of the two states was in two different areas. I am not advocating for this idea, but wondering out loud if Gazans who are not Hamas, the ordinary men and women of Gaza who are hurting so much right now through all this, ought not to be relocated to the West Bank and work in ernest is begun to empower the PA to operate the west bank as an independant nation?

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, RomanPer said:

 

There's a Russian-speaking war reporter and analyst from Israel, Sergey Auslender, who was covering the war in Ukraine in depth since February 2022. Obviously, now he switched primarily to the Israel-Hamas war. His latest report was specifically about about the situation in the West Bank. And being Israeli war reporter has has connections all around Israeli Security forces (IDF, Mossad, Shin Bet, etc.). Since all his reports are in Russian (Telegram and YouTube), here's my translation to English: "Everything is relatively quiet in the West Bank, at least for now. People there are afraid, but the message to the right people was delivered - "if you stay quiet, no one will touch you". At the same time, an armed person will be taken down immediately, without warning shots or screams".

yeah, this has been seen largely to be true for two weeks now. I am thankful that the West Bank is largely low key as far as violence goes right now compared to Gaza.

[moosehead]

A speech made by Prince Turki al-Faisal of Saudi Arabia this week on the current violence in the Middle East is unusually frank for a senior member of the Saudi royal family.

 

Prince Turki, a widely respected elder statesman in Saudi circles, has publicly condemned both Hamas and Israel for attacking civilians, following Hamas's 7 October attack on southern Israel and the subsequent Israeli bombardment of Gaza. There were no heroes, he said, only victims.

 

 

The group's acts, he said, went against Islamic injunctions not to harm civilians. The majority of those killed or kidnapped by Hamas were civilians.

Prince Turki, a careful, thoughtful ex-diplomat and spy chief, balanced his condemnation of Hamas with that of Israel, which he accused of "indiscriminate bombing of innocent Palestinian civilians in Gaza" and the "indiscriminate arrest of Palestinian children, women and men in the West Bank".

 

He took issue with the US media's use of the phrase "unprovoked attack" in reference to the 7 October raid, saying: "What more provocation is required.. than what Israel has done to the Palestinian people for three-quarters of a century?"

 

He added that "all militarily occupied people have a right to resist occupation".

 

Prince Turki also condemned Western politicians for "shedding tears when Israelis are killed by Palestinians", but refusing to "even express sorrow when Israelis kill Palestinians".

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67177684

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

That isn’t true, it has been confirmed that the Church complex was struck.

 

There are different buildings that make up a church, not just the sanctuary.  The building that got hit was the hall, like where youth groups meet or you gather after a service for coffee…. Or in this case, where all the refugees were sleeping.

 

That Twitter account seems to be full of a lot of vitriol.

 

It is just so weird that people don’t believe what Israel is literally telling them.  They say they are engaging in a large scale bombing campaign in Gaza, many thousands so far according to them.  We see hundreds of videos confirming this is happening.  There is independent evidence of mass civilian casualties.

The IDF was targeting the building next door. The bomb missed and hit the street corner instead and also hit the assembly hall. 
 

I am a Roman Catholic so I know a lot about churches. I used to be an altar boy. An assembly hall is not technically part of the church. The church is the holy place where you say mass and serve communion and where you pray. An assembly hall is normally right next door where you go for food, parties and other events. We would never call the assembly hall the church. It is a totally separate building. 
 

There is also usually another building next to the church where the priests live. It is called a rectory. That isn’t part of the church eirher. Most churches are also beside a school. My church was right next door to my elementary school. 

[Provost]

36 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Pointless comment, could just turn it around and you would get the same reaction from the other side..

 

It is just so weird that people don’t believe what Hamas is literally telling them.  They say they are engaging in a large scale terror campaign in Isreal, many thousands killed so far according to them.  We see hundreds of videos confirming this is happening.  There is independent evidence of mass civilian casualties.

I am glad you are finally coming around to consider Hamas and the Israeli government as equivalent in their atrocities.

 

It took you a while, but you got there!

 

The point of my post though was that folks are only defending one side, which is pretty weird.

 

[Playoff Beered]

5 minutes ago, Provost said:

I am glad you are finally coming around to consider Hamas and the Israeli government as equivalent in their atrocities.

 

It took you a while, but you got there!

 

The point of my post though was that folks are only defending one side, which is pretty weird.

 

Not even close. Isreal is not innocent and it has blood on its hands for sure, but tell me honestly, would you rather be a Palestinian under Israeli control or an Israeli under Hamas control? 

[Bob Long]

48 minutes ago, moosehead said:

A speech made by Prince Turki al-Faisal of Saudi Arabia this week on the current violence in the Middle East is unusually frank for a senior member of the Saudi royal family.

 

Prince Turki, a widely respected elder statesman in Saudi circles, has publicly condemned both Hamas and Israel for attacking civilians, following Hamas's 7 October attack on southern Israel and the subsequent Israeli bombardment of Gaza. There were no heroes, he said, only victims.

 

 

The group's acts, he said, went against Islamic injunctions not to harm civilians. The majority of those killed or kidnapped by Hamas were civilians.

Prince Turki, a careful, thoughtful ex-diplomat and spy chief, balanced his condemnation of Hamas with that of Israel, which he accused of "indiscriminate bombing of innocent Palestinian civilians in Gaza" and the "indiscriminate arrest of Palestinian children, women and men in the West Bank".

 

He took issue with the US media's use of the phrase "unprovoked attack" in reference to the 7 October raid, saying: "What more provocation is required.. than what Israel has done to the Palestinian people for three-quarters of a century?"

 

He added that "all militarily occupied people have a right to resist occupation".

 

Prince Turki also condemned Western politicians for "shedding tears when Israelis are killed by Palestinians", but refusing to "even express sorrow when Israelis kill Palestinians".

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67177684

 

His last sentence is BS - many leaders and people in the west want Palestinians to have a peaceful life and don't support their suffering.

[Optimist Prime]

36 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Not even close. Isreal is not innocent and it has blood on its hands for sure, but tell me honestly, would you rather be a Palestinian under Israeli control or an Israeli under Hamas control? 

That is a good way to put things, but I would still rather not be in either situation.

[CanuteCanuck]

1 hour ago, Satchmo said:

I still haven't watched Game Of Thrones but I've seen The Princess Bride and all the Python movies.

 

I think one of them said: 'Beware,  there are heavy hands afoot'

 

I hope it was The Life Of Brian 'cos that one was set in the Holy Land and would be on topic.

"Throw him to the floor "

     "and treat him roughly sir?"

 "Ohh right yes treat him roughly"

[CanuteCanuck]

11 minutes ago, CanuteCanuck said:

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by CanuteCanuck
Duplicate

[moosehead]

58 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Not even close. Isreal is not innocent and it has blood on its hands for sure, but tell me honestly, would you rather be a Palestinian under Israeli control or an Israeli under Hamas control? 

 

Actually, neither.   

[Riddikulus]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

His last sentence is BS - many leaders and people in the west want Palestinians to have a peaceful life and don't support their suffering.

I have already said this already in this thread but the only people who want people to suffer are sociopaths and of course as humans we would love to live in a peaceful world. That unfortunately has never been the case and nor will it ever be. The Arabs will never believe that the West would put their lives before its own imperialist ambition and global hegemony. The facts support that notion, the number of civilians that have died in the numerous wars in the Middle East due to the decisions of Western leaders is staggering. There simply isn't the same level of outrage shown over those deaths as the ones in Ukraine or Israel. 

 

Orwell was the one that put it best, "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others". No sane person wants to see people suffer, but the suffering of some human beings will always hit us harder than that of others. To you that statement is BS, but to many around the world it would be the equivalent of saying water is wet.

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Riddikulus said:

I have already said this already in this thread but the only people who want people to suffer are sociopaths and of course as humans we would love to live in a peaceful world. That unfortunately has never been the case and nor will it ever be. The Arabs will never believe that the West would put their lives before its own imperialist ambition and global hegemony. The facts support that notion, the number of civilians that have died in the numerous wars in the Middle East due to the decisions of Western leaders is staggering. There simply isn't the same level of outrage shown over those deaths as the ones in Ukraine or Israel. 

 

Orwell was the one that put it best, "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others". No sane person wants to see people suffer, but the suffering of some human beings will always hit us harder than that of others. To you that statement is BS, but to many around the world it would be the equivalent of saying water is wet.

 

And is there Saudi tears when an American dies? Or someone in Yemen?

 

 

[Riddikulus]

16 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

And is there Saudi tears when an American dies? Or someone in Yemen?

Depends which American, I think MBS might shed a tear if his buddy Trump kicks the bucket. But I was defending the sentiment and not the person who said it. If its moral righteousness you are looking for then you likely won't get that from a Saudi royal.  

[Bob Long]

43 minutes ago, Riddikulus said:

Depends which American, I think MBS might shed a tear if his buddy Trump kicks the bucket. But I was defending the sentiment and not the person who said it. If its moral righteousness you are looking for then you likely won't get that from a Saudi royal.  

 

That's for sure - the reason I said "bs" is the world needs no ethics lesson from Saudi leaders .

 

I don't know how we measure outrage anymore. Is it the loudest tweet? 

 

Most folks I know would like to see ME peace and would say so if you asked them and hate seeing this cycle continue.

 

Just not sure what the average Canadian or American can do about it.

 

[Riddikulus]

17 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

That's for sure - the reason I said "bs" is the world needs no ethics lesson from Saudi leaders .

 

I don't know how we measure outrage anymore. Is it the loudest tweet? 

 

Most folks I know would like to see ME peace and would say so if you asked them and hate seeing this cycle continue.

 

Just not sure what the average Canadian or American can do about it.

To me social media is full of people posturing so it doesn't sway me. But I think you can definitely gauge outrage based on government policy, usually politicians don't do things that will cause significant outcry and tank their popularity among their base. 

 

I do think most people would like to see peace but ask tell them what it will cost and they will have different answers. Just look at the number of people complaining of aid being provided to Ukraine. Would people want to give significant government funding if it meant peace in the Middle East? I don't blame people for saying no, a lot of people here are struggling to make ends meet. The Middle East is a far away place and what happens there has little to no impact on our day to day lives. I would wager most people would not even be able to point out Israel or Gaza on a map.

[Ilunga]

7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Where did everyone go?  Was there a “cleansing” of this thread? 

What's the point of further contributions ?

As I have already stated this thread was getting like the conflict itself, an endless circle of blame and recriminations. 

 

I happened to have that M.A.S.H episode on the other night in the background while I was reading, the one where Hawkeye brings the Pilot who was blase about the war, bombing villages from 20,000ft, into the operating room where the surgeons were working on a young child who was a victim of a bombing raid. 

All of a sudden the war became personal to him. 

That's what this thread makes me think of.

 

I haven't been in an actual war zone however I was in mass street fights where people were attacking each other with knives, baseball bats and Iron bars.

I have been both shot at and shot. 

 

This is me and a bit of my story 

 

 

The guys from Burton gave me that set of Jacket and Pants, that's actually Farsi, quotes from Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, Muhammad Ali, Pablo Picasso and Albert Einstein. 

 

As it states at the end of the video

Love conquers all, including anger.

[Elias Pettersson]

8 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

What's the point of further contributions ?

As I have already stated this thread was getting like the conflict itself, an endless circle of blame and recriminations. 

 

I happened to have that M.A.S.H episode on the other night in the background while I was reading, the one where Hawkeye brings the Pilot who was blase about the war, bombing villages from 20,000ft, into the operating room where the surgeons were working on a young child who was a victim of a bombing raid. 

All of a sudden the war became personal to him. 

That's what this thread makes me think of.

 

I haven't been in an actual war zone however I was in mass street fights where people were attacking each other with knives, baseball bats and Iron bars.

I have been both shot at and shot. 

 

This is me and a bit of my story 

 

 

The guys from Burton gave me that set of Jacket and Pants, that's actually Farsi, quotes from Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, Muhammad Ali, Pablo Picasso and Albert Einstein. 

 

As it states at the end of the video

Love conquers all, including anger.

 

Wow, that's pretty cool.  Thanks for sharing.  And thanks for being so open about yourself Dave.  It seems like I really know you even better now.  

 

So now, moving forward every time you post I am going to be reading it in your Australian accent.  

 

Cheers my friend.  Maybe one day I will post about the real EP.  I have an interesting story too...

[Spur1]

17 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Wow, that's pretty cool.  Thanks for sharing.  And thanks for being so open about yourself Dave.  It seems like I really know you even better now.  

 

So now, moving forward every time you post I am going to be reading it in your Australian accent.  

 

Cheers my friend.  Maybe one day I will post about the real EP.  I have an interesting story too...

Get a room. 

[CBH1926]

Two local hostages were released, young lady is turning 18 on Monday I believe.

I was watching the news the other day, thinking that she was going to spend her 18th b day in captivity.

At least one positive story coming out of that area.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/what-we-know-about-the-evanston-mother-daughter-released-by-hamas-after-being-taken-hostage-in-israel/3256674/