Hamas attacking Israel

[Super19]

2 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

 

But they just repealed the settlement thing this year...

To me, that shows that, obviously, Isreal planned to keep illegally taking land.

 

[B]Is there any hope left for the Palestinians when acts like this are repealed? [B]

 

Once a human loses hope, all is lost.

 

Look, when nearly 4,000 Palestinian children have died since Oct 7 and nothings been done about it, I'd say there's not much hope left for a free Palestine.

[King Heffy]

16 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Palestine is fcked. Plain and simple. Israel isn't holding back this time, especially given the 'no red lines' nod from USA. I think Netanyahu gets what wants, which is an Israel from the river to the sea. Hard to imagine there being a Palestinian state from this. 

They'll be allowed to keep the West Bank.  Gaza residents will have to be screened, with Hamas being executed and the remainder sent to the West Bank.

[Super19]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

They'll be allowed to keep the West Bank.  Gaza residents will have to be screened, with Hamas being executed and the remainder sent to the West Bank.

The Palestinians that will survive will just be integrated in Israeli society, being seen as a lower caste. There will be enough of these Palestinians that Israel in future years can say 'hey look, here are some original Palestinians!'

To get rid of Hamas, Israel needs to wipe out most of the population, which what I think they plan on doing.

Many little kids who survive these wars in Gaza don't grow up to be doctors or lawyers. They have vengeance in their blood and love for the land, and so they grow up to be Hamas.

Israel knows this, and I think this is what explains the huge numbers of children deaths and injuries this time around. The "human shield" and collateral damage excuse for these children dying is complete BS IMO.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Super19 said:

The Palestinians that will survive will just be integrated in Israeli society, being seen as a lower caste. There will be enough of these Palestinians that Israel in future years can say 'hey look, here are some original Palestinians!'

To get rid of Hamas, Israel needs to wipe out most of the population, which what I think they plan on doing.

Many little kids who survive these wars in Gaza don't grow up to be doctors or lawyers. They have vengeance in their blood and love for the land, and so they grow up to be Hamas.

Israel knows this, and I think this is what explains the huge numbers of children deaths and injuries this time around. The "human shield" and collateral damage excuse for these children dying is complete BS IMO.

Are you suggesting the IDF is targeting children? 

[Bob Long]

16 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

They'll be allowed to keep the West Bank.  Gaza residents will have to be screened, with Hamas being executed and the remainder sent to the West Bank.

 

a lot can happen between now and something like that. Hamas started a war it knew it couldn't win, so if Iran and other countries don't step in to even the odds maybe this is the end result? dunno. Scary outcomes either way. 

 

 

[Super19]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Are you suggesting the IDF is targeting children? 

They're targeting Hamas. Furthermore, Netanyahu wants to completely eliminate Hamas for good.

 

No one saying that Israel is targeting children. 

 

But read between the lines.

 

Nearly 4,000 children already dead... 1,000s under rubble and wounded.

 

But they're not targeting children. They're targeting Hamas.

 

I'm suggesting the reality that nearly everyone knows. Many of these kids that survive will grow up to be the new Hamas. It's a vicious cycle. Netanyahu knows this. So while the IDF is not targeting children, keep an eye to see how many more children die. Despite Biden not agreeing with the death count, the world still owes these Palestinian children at least that much.

[Super19]

11 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

a lot can happen between now and something like that. Hamas started a war it knew it couldn't win, so if Iran and other countries don't step in to even the odds maybe this is the end result? dunno. Scary outcomes either way. 

 

 

Iran stepping in would be a world War, and no one wants that. Iran has nukes and a huge army. All these Arab countries are secretly cozy with Israel. Nobody wants a big problem. The only ones fcked are the Palestinians supporting the Palestinian plight in Gaza, and the Palestinian children living there.

 

In a few years when this is all said and done and Palestine is no more and Israel takes Gaza, builds beach front properties and theme parks, Saudi and Arab nations will sign a massive treaty with Israel allowing Muslims from all over the world to visit the 'holy land'. But don't forget the cost...

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Super19 said:

They're targeting Hamas. Furthermore, Netanyahu wants to completely eliminate Hamas for good.

 

No one saying that Israel is targeting children. 

 

But read between the lines.

 

Nearly 4,000 children already dead... 1,000s under rubble and wounded.

 

But they're not targeting children. They're targeting Hamas.

 

I'm suggesting the reality that nearly everyone knows. Many of these kids that survive will grow up to be the new Hamas. It's a vicious cycle. Netanyahu knows this. So while the IDF is not targeting children, keep an eye to see how many more children die. Despite Biden not agreeing with the death count, the world still owes these Palestinian children at least that much.

Maybe I’m not understanding your message? But IMHAO it reads that you’re suggesting the IDF is targeting children. 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

Iran stepping in would be a world War, and no one wants that. Iran has nukes and a huge army. All these Arab countries are secretly cozy with Israel. Nobody wants a big problem. The only ones fcked are the Palestinians supporting the Palestinian plight in Gaza, and the Palestinian children living there.

 

In a few years when this is all said and done and Palestine is no more and Israel takes Gaza, builds beach front properties and theme parks, Saudi and Arab nations will sign a massive treaty with Israel allowing Muslims from all over the world to visit the 'holy land'. But don't forget the cost...

 

When did we get confirmation of Iran  having nukes?

 

I don't know what Hamas end game was here. Maybe they just really screwed up.

 

[Super19]

Just now, Alflives said:

Maybe I’m not understanding your message? But IMHAO it reads that you’re suggesting the IDF is targeting children. 

What does it matter who or what the IDF says they're targeting? Seriously. Thousands of children are already dead. Who is that on? Everybody. You can lay the blame on Hamas, Netanyahu, or whoever you want. But the entire world has failed that region. In my opinion the people dropping the bombs bear the most weight.

[Super19]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

When did we get confirmation of Iran  having nukes?

 

I don't know what Hamas end game was here. Maybe they just really screwed up.

 

Well nobody is gonna wanna FAandFO with Iran. 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Iran stepping in would be a world War, and no one wants that. Iran has nukes and a huge army. All these Arab countries are secretly cozy with Israel. Nobody wants a big problem. The only ones fcked are the Palestinians supporting the Palestinian plight in Gaza, and the Palestinian children living there.

 

In a few years when this is all said and done and Palestine is no more and Israel takes Gaza, builds beach front properties and theme parks, Saudi and Arab nations will sign a massive treaty with Israel allowing Muslims from all over the world to visit the 'holy land'. But don't forget the cost...

You have some interesting views. The Arab nations are secretly cozy with Israel? And after this current war Gaza will be turned into a theme park and waterfront homes where Muslims will come and play?

Where are you getting these ideas from? 

[Coconuts]

51 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I think these are the folks Roman is talking about that aren't doing the conflict any good.

 

I was trying to find the actual government policy on the West Bank reversal, so far all I've found is this idea that its ancestral land so its not an occupation, which seems to have been supported by the Trump administration. Not sure what Biden's take is. 

 

 

Perhaps, the Hamas assault has lead to rising tensions not only in the Gaza region but likely within the surrounding region as a whole. Anger, hate, and so on have likely exacerbated tensions that existed before the most recent assault though, as settler attacks on Palestinian civilians in the West Bank aren't new. If they're escalating that's a concerning development, though not really a surprising one. 

 

I'm not sure about the policy but I was able to find the following related to Biden and the US.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/us-rebuke-israel-west-bank-settlements-frustration-biden-palestinians-rcna76047

 

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-750516

 

https://thehill.com/policy/international/4046213-us-warns-against-israeli-settlement-expansion-after-reports-of-new-west-bank-plans/

 

This was from a couple days ago

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/biden-pushes-mideast-leaders-to-consider-two-state-solution-after-israel-hamas-war-ends#:~:text=During his visit to the,held U.S. support for statehood.

[Super19]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

You have some interesting views. The Arab nations are secretly cozy with Israel? And after this current war Gaza will be turned into a theme park and waterfront homes where Muslims will come and play?

Where are you getting these ideas from? 

What else is Gaza gonna be turned into? They're just gonna leave it rubble? It's gonna be a permanent memorial for the deceased? Gaza is gonna be a hotspot for tourism - alotta money to be made there. It'll be a nice place not just for Israelis or Muslims, but for all. I think a massive treaty could be signed between Saudi and Israel to allow the Muslim world to freely visit the Al Aqsa mosque, including Palestinians from around the world. 

 

I just think that's whats going to happen.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

What else is Gaza gonna be turned into? They're just gonna leave it rubble? It's gonna be a permanent memorial for the deceased? Gaza is gonna be a hotspot for tourism - alotta money to be made there. It'll be a nice place not just for Israelis or Muslims, but for all. I think a massive treaty could be signed between Saudi and Israel to allow the Muslim world to freely visit the Al Aqsa mosque, including Palestinians from around the world. 

 

I just think that's whats going to happen.

What happens to the 2 plus million people living in Gaza? 

[Coconuts]

Worth considering in regard to any developments post-Israel/Hamas/whoever conflict is also how it will be politicized in the US. The US will back Israel period, they've shown this for decades, but how it will be politicized, what rhetoric occurs within the US political discourse, and what impact said rhetoric actually ends up having is anyone's guess. 

 

How a Republican US president approaches the scenario could be very different than how a Democrat president approaches the scenario. Who ends up being said president for which party will also play a role. The impact of the looming precedential race and the general US political discourse upon this scenario can't be overstated. 

[Super19]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What happens to the 2 plus million people living in Gaza? 

That's a good question. I think a lot of them will die at this pace. It's not looking good man. No one's really taking them in, and they themselves aren't really willing to leave.

[Bob Long]

14 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Perhaps, the Hamas assault has lead to rising tensions not only in the Gaza region but likely within the surrounding region as a whole. Anger, hate, and so on have likely exacerbated tensions that existed before the most recent assault though, as settler attacks on Palestinian civilians in the West Bank aren't new. If they're escalating that's a concerning development, though not really a surprising one. 

 

I'm not sure about the policy but I was able to find the following related to Biden and the US.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/us-rebuke-israel-west-bank-settlements-frustration-biden-palestinians-rcna76047

 

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-750516

 

https://thehill.com/policy/international/4046213-us-warns-against-israeli-settlement-expansion-after-reports-of-new-west-bank-plans/

 

This was from a couple days ago

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/biden-pushes-mideast-leaders-to-consider-two-state-solution-after-israel-hamas-war-ends#:~:text=During his visit to the,held U.S. support for statehood.

 

Sounds like the right wing hardliners are the ones poking the bear. Maybe Israelis will kick them out next election.

 

If you run across some info on what Hamas strategy was supposed to be, please post it. Because right now it looks to me like it's backfired.

[RomanPer]

36 minutes ago, Super19 said:

They're targeting Hamas. Furthermore, Netanyahu wants to completely eliminate Hamas for good.

 

No one saying that Israel is targeting children. 

 

But read between the lines.

 

Nearly 4,000 children already dead... 1,000s under rubble and wounded.

 

But they're not targeting children. They're targeting Hamas.

 

I'm suggesting the reality that nearly everyone knows. Many of these kids that survive will grow up to be the new Hamas. It's a vicious cycle. Netanyahu knows this. So while the IDF is not targeting children, keep an eye to see how many more children die. Despite Biden not agreeing with the death count, the world still owes these Palestinian children at least that much.

 

Don't say "no one saying". You are not saying it, but there are plenty around the world and in this thread who believe IDF targets civilians in general and kids specifically. Which couldn't be further from the truth. I served in IDF and the orders were always extremely clear on the rules of engagement. I also know for a fact that Israel constantly changing the rules of engagement for the IDF soldiers and in recent years it became even harder to justify the usage of weapons. My nephew completed his mandatory service last November in Givati (one of the two main brigades in Israel, along with Golani). His service was a rotation every 2 months between the North (Golan Heights), Center (Shkhem/Nablus) and South (Gaza border). In his words, "the orders are not to use the weapon unless there's absolutely clear and immediate danger to soldier's life". There are known cases when Israeli courts charged and convicted IDF military personal for deliberately targeting Palestinian civilians even in cases where such action were an impulse reaction to danger. Think of a cop in North America shooting a suspect who reaches in his pocket, only to find out later that he was reaching for a document. I'm not saying such action are justified, and number of such cases in Israeli courts is proof that there's no deliberate targeting of civilians on behalf of IDF. Obviously, now that the full fledged war broke up, the rules of engagement are changing.

[Coconuts]

7 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Sounds like the right wing hardliners are the ones poking the bear. Maybe Israelis will kick them out next election.

 

If you run across some info on what Hamas strategy was supposed to be, please post it. Because right now it looks to me like it's backfired.

 

I dunno, it's really hard to say as we still don't know how things will play out in Gaza or what Hamas will do. It's also tough to gauge how Israeli citizens will view things in a post-conflict setting, if we even get to one sooner than later. Propaganda will also likely be a factor. 

 

The government, which I've been pretty openly critical of, isn't representative of Israeli citizens or jews as a whole, what happens in Israel politically will heavily impact whatever comes next for Israel and the Palestinian people. What happens in the US will also likely impact what happens in Israel politically imo. 

 

Dunno, it seems this recent assault was years in the making wasn't it? Hard to ascertain what the longer term goals of Hamas's wealthy and likely non-present leadership are. 

[Bure_Pavel]

22 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What happens to the 2 plus million people living in Gaza? 

It sounds like they want to displace majority of them to Egypt and then disperse them from there, Israel was suggesting a good chunk could go to Canada due to "Canada's "lenient" immigration practices"

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/israeli-ministry-concept-paper-proposes-transferring-gaza-civilians-to-egypt-s-sinai-with-canada-as-a-possible-final-destination-1.6623901

[Bob Long]

7 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I dunno, it's really hard to say as we still don't know how things will play out in Gaza or what Hamas will do. It's also tough to gauge how Israeli citizens will view things in a post-conflict setting, if we even get to one sooner than later. Propaganda will also likely be a factor. 

 

The government, which I've been pretty openly critical of, isn't representative of Israeli citizens or jews as a whole, what happens in Israel politically will heavily impact whatever comes next for Israel and the Palestinian people. What happens in the US will also likely impact what happens in Israel politically imo. 

 

Yep no one knows where this is going.

 

7 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Dunno, it seems this recent assault was years in the making wasn't it? Hard to ascertain what the longer term goals of Hamas's wealthy and likely non-present leadership are. 

 

I guess , but there were many chances for peace so I'm not sure the historical blame game has any real relevance, other than to keep people arguing.

[Coconuts]

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Yep no one knows where this is going.

 

 

I guess , but there were many chances for peace so I'm not sure the historical blame game has any real relevance, other than to keep people arguing.

 

More than likely @Elias Pettersson is right and there will simply never be a lasting peace in that region 

 

Too many factions, countries with hands in the pie, religions/faiths/ect involved, and so on 

 

Whatever will happen will happen, but it wouldn't shock me if this thread is still going in some way, shape, or form in two or three years 

 

Maybe that's a tad cynical but at the end of the day it's the average civilians who pay the highest price during conflicts such as this one

[Sabrefan1]

4 hours ago, Bob Long said:

Sorry to hear that, I kind of thought Buffalo was quite similar to a lot of cities in Canada. 

 

In the Buffalo suburbs, yes.  Most of North Buffalo, yes.  South Buffalo, mostly, though it suffered from city creep a while back when mortgages were handed out like candy.  Neighborhoods in central Buffalo like Allentown, yes. 

 

West and East Buffalo, hell no.  Those are the crime ridden sh*tholes that give Buffalo a bad name.  There are mostly A-A's living there.  Try to clean it up and turn things around, you get accused of gentrification.  Leave it to rot, you're racist and abandoning them.  So we just stuff cops in those areas and leave those parts of Buffalo to rot like they want.

[JIAHN]

@moosehead

 

I have been reading your  comments, and although I understand and agree that this is a terrible war

 

Let's consider this.........

 

Israel has defined military and residential area's, in which Hamas can basically define as well (meaning hit what they are aiming at, not that I think they are actually shooting at the Israeli military

 

Meaning there is absolutely no reason to target non-military personnel

 

Where as, Hamas, for very obvious reasons, chooses to hide in the residential area's of Palestine 

 

This allows Hamas to send rockets out, with absolute protection of the UN charter

 

While Israel has to somehow stop them, without hitting residential area's

 

This does not make sense, and even though I personally would like to stop the fighting

 

I do not see this as a even proposition........unless Hamas actually never sends another rocket again

 

Which of course, I do not see happening

 

IMO, the reality if that Palestinians need to kick out Hamas, or suffer the consequences

 

Who started it? That is a multifaceted question, but we do know there was a peace up until Hamas started killing civilians in early October

 

IMO, Hamas under-rated Israel's response, and IMO, they should not stop until Palestinian society says, go and live in peace, your actions are killing us. (whether by bombs or starvation) 

 

Kick them out and stop protection them .............or get them out from the city, otherwise they will just shoot their rockets and run back inside.