Hamas attacking Israel

[Playoff Beered]

18 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Hamas is documented to store their weapons caches in UN Schools, Hospitals and amongst the good people of Palestine. There is an authenticated video of Hamas fighter herding women from a covered parking area in a UN School, presumably his wives, out into a street with a switch as one would with goats, where he is then standing in behind of them with his AK and holy bandana firing ridiculously into the air at the Israeli lines outside the Gaza fence, from roughly about 4 days ago. The women are terrified and when they try to go back into the parking garage he whips them to turn them back to face Israel. A bit graphic of a description, sorry, but my point is it is irrelevant who is funding any building that is used by Hamas and their agents. Also, fair comment: not all hospitals and schools are Hamas weapons caches or places where they are hiding their fighters. One final comment from me on WIKIPEDIA, which i contribute to, it is very good peer reviewed data, but I can make any page say whatever I want for at least a short time simply by editing the page. Over time the crowd sourced data is collectively 'peer reviewed and becomes much more relevant. Any wiki data from this week is likely propaganda from either side or one of many facets to the human diamond.

 

Disagree about this part, it is very relevant when discussing the hypothetical scenario we were discussing. If you read back you will see we were talking about Hamas targeting it on purpose to gain sympathy or to derail cease fire talks etc., again entirely hypothetically, before someone goes off and accuses me of advocating that as fact or my preference.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Disagree, it is very relevant when discussing the hypothetical scenario we were discussing. If you read back you will see we were talking about Hamas targeting it on purpose to gain sympathy or to derail cease fire talks etc., again entirely hypothetically, before someone goes off and accuses me of advocating that as fact or my preference.

I missed the context you are referring too, but my larger point was misplaced i guess; i meant it doesn't matter if the hospital is a christian hospital or a secular hospital or a muslim hospital: it is a hospital. I don't think Hamas hit it on purpose, and if they did, I don't think it would have been selected because it was funded by christians. Hamas would LOVE christians to send them money, more money, all the money. Sorry for disagreeing, but I stand by what i said. it doesn't really matter. I suppose if christians are around in Gaza, and by all accounts there are, they should probably be very worried for their lives as things become more desperate for Hamas. 

[moosehead]

27 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Everyone is having a really hard time remembering to keep it non personal. 

 

No one here is a bad person. Everyone here has opinions. Opinions are like butts, everyone has one, they all stink somewhat and most folks only can tolerate their own.

 

Keep it clean and on topic. No baiting and no personal attacks. 

 

I have tremendous respect for poster Bob Long.  He is extremely intelligent poster. 

I would never  attack him personally.  Sorry if i came across that way.

I respect all that post here.  

 

PS - the mods are also doing a great job on this thread which is awesome.  To the posters that also help encourage friendly banter - well done. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by moosehead

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

I have tremendous respect for poster Bob Long.  He is extremely intelligent poster. 

I would never personally attack him personally.  Sorry if i came across that way.

I respect all that post here.  

 

PS - the mods are also doing a great job on this thread which is 

 

never felt that you did. Thanks for asking tho. 

[Optimist Prime]

someone posted a great list of things we more or less largely agree on in this thread, but one thing they missed was;

 

~ Nothing we type out in this hockey fans forum will alter any outcome in the current geopolitical sphere.

 

I think maybe if we all remember that, the personal attacks, baiting and nitpicking may cut way down.  

[moosehead]

4 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

someone posted a great list of things we more or less largely agree on in this thread, but one thing they missed was;

 

~ Nothing we type out in this hockey fans forum will alter any outcome in the current geopolitical sphere.

 

I think maybe if we all remember that, the personal attacks, baiting and nitpicking may cut way down.  

 

I really feel I learn more from those with a different opinion that mine.... as compared to others that think like i do.

 

Personally, the reason i spend time here is to hear other diverse views.......    I love learning from all the smart people here. 

This conflict is very challenging to fully understand , especially as i am born and raised in North America with no family background in the middle east .   Just trying to get a deeper understanding little by little. Sometimes it all feels very overwhelming.  So many involved parties and so much history in the region / conflict . 

Edited October 18, 2023 by moosehead

[Playoff Beered]

 

[Optimist Prime]

hehehe, there was an AK Automatikka mounted on a big board above my desk in Ottawa, taken overseas from the guy who was going to spray our guys with it after a boot to the jaw, as he tried to wiggle out of a taxi backwards, rendered him willing to give it up. Below that was a "demotivational poster" that I liked to remind my guys about. "None of us is dumb as all of us".  

 

 

[Warhippy]

17 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

someone posted a great list of things we more or less largely agree on in this thread, but one thing they missed was;

 

~ Nothing we type out in this hockey fans forum will alter any outcome in the current geopolitical sphere.

 

I think maybe if we all remember that, the personal attacks, baiting and nitpicking may cut way down.  

So.....Neidermeyer isn't coming to vancouver to play because he was spotted here?

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

So.....Neidermeyer isn't coming to vancouver to play because he was spotted here?

eeep, i hope not. 

[Odd.]

8 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

Too tethered imo, it's wild to me how the US has devastated other countries by means of their foreign policy and yet they'll throw billions at Israel every year 

 

I was hoping some of that massive amount of money would go towards rebuilding but I guess that's too much to ask

 

Ukraine I get, Russia is the clear-cut aggressor and their being allowed to simply walk over Ukraine would have had a massive ripple effect 

 

I wonder what the "other top security priorities" are

 

In regards to Ukraine/Russia, it is understandable to fund Ukraine as much as possible. Ukraine funded by the US has and will continue to deter and defeat Russian aggression and invasion. The alternative would be that Russia invades Ukraine, and then subsequently has an excuse to invade nearby countries, which will cause instability not seen since WW2 in Europe. It also incentivizes other countries such as China and North Korea to illegally occupy and invade their neighbouring states. Russia is the greatest threat and risk to the destruction of freedom and democracy to the world. This is coming from a person who’s extremely critical of the U.S and their aptness for meddling in world affairs. U.S policing is fine by me. 

 

I am glad Biden is funding Palestinians $100M in humanitarian aid. It’s the least the US could do after already sending hundreds of millions of dollars to Israel. However, U.S should NOT be funding Israel’s military.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Odd.

[Elias Pettersson]

 

[Playoff Beered]

25 minutes ago, Odd. said:

************************************

 

That is borderline hate speech, imagine if someone said Palestinians are evil. What are you thinking posts like this accomplish, besides breeding more hatred?

[Optimist Prime]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Either RUssia or the USA has vetoes thousands of these over the last few decades. This one was put forward so the US had to veto it while Russia simply voted present. lol Don't let the PR campaigns of the big boys who are both idiots anyways get to you. If everyone voted for it, which never was the goal, it would have been a nice piece of paper and nothing else.

 

edit: i should say why i think the US had to veto it: it would then be a UN Security Council Resolution that Israel could NOT abide by and would go against the resolution the first time some random moron in Gaza fired a rocket over the fence, forcing Israel to respond and voila: finger pointing and riots at embassies again. 

[Warhippy]

10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Don't stop shooting!

 

Hey Here's $100 billion Israel and Ukraine.

 

And hey, Palestine, here's $100 million for your efforts.  Buy yourself some aid.

 

But whatever all of you do, do not stop shooting!

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, moosehead said:

 

Any way that does not allow for the collective punishment /  harm to innocent civilians.  

Any way that does not allow for the collective deprivation of  water, power, food and medical supplies to innocent civilians.

 

 

Israel 's harm of civilians will only increase membership in Hamas...  but then again, this is likely a goal of the currently Isreali leadership that is dead set against a peaceful solution to this conflict.    The only goal of Israel government is the continuation of Apartheid system.  More land for Israel immigrants from USA. 

 

Isn't the headquarters of Hamas inside the Al-Shifa hospital?

 

Why Hamas stores its weapons inside hospitals, mosques and schools - The Washington Post

 

During one short-lived lull in rocket fire, The Washington Post’s William Booth saw a “group of men” at a mosque in northern Gaza. They said they had returned to clean up glass from shattered windows. “But they could be seen moving small rockets into the mosque,” Booth wrote. He also reported that Shifa Hospital in Gaza City had “become a de facto headquarters for Hamas leaders, who can be seen in the hallways and offices.”

 

How do you stop the killing of civilians when Hamas uses them as human shields and uses schools, mosques and hospitals to hide terrorist operatives and store weapons from which attacks are launched?

[Playoff Beered]

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Optimist Prime]

@Elias Pettersson ^this is a good question, it has been asked over and over in different way: how can peace be brought to Gaza while the leaders of Gaza have no other purpose than the destruction of Israel? How can they be neutralized without any Palestinian bloodshed? That would be the greatest goal. 

[Playoff Beered]

Edited October 19, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[moosehead]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Isn't the headquarters of Hamas inside the Al-Shifa hospital?

 

Why Hamas stores its weapons inside hospitals, mosques and schools - The Washington Post

 

During one short-lived lull in rocket fire, The Washington Post’s William Booth saw a “group of men” at a mosque in northern Gaza. They said they had returned to clean up glass from shattered windows. “But they could be seen moving small rockets into the mosque,” Booth wrote. He also reported that Shifa Hospital in Gaza City had “become a de facto headquarters for Hamas leaders, who can be seen in the hallways and offices.”

 

How do you stop the killing of civilians when Hamas uses them as human shields and uses schools, mosques and hospitals to hide terrorist operatives and store weapons from which attacks are launched?

 

There is absolutely no valid justification for bombing schools, churchs or hospitals.  

Sorry but this is just not acceptable under any conditions. 

[Optimist Prime]

6 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

There is absolutely no valid justification for bombing schools, churchs or hospitals.  

Sorry but this is just not acceptable under any conditions. 

How does one stop the Jihadi Terrorist from stockpiling rockets in them and firing from their rooftops?

[Odd.]

13 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

There’s just too much propaganda going around. I think we can all agree it is more likely that a failed Hamas rocket hit the hospital than an Israeli missile, if they’re shooting rockets behind a hospital.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Odd.

[Optimist Prime]

In this thread I will be banning anyone calling a Nation evil. Also, a warning on language, we are more at ease here with swearing, but lets cut down on the fragrant F bombs please. It is becoming a full time job moderating and the easy cut to work load is to ban folks. Last warning. 

 

EDIT: TO explain my self more fully: It is imperative that we speak with a moderate tone, all of us. We can disagree without making it personal, and if we can't then some of us can not be here. 

[Odd.]

Edit

Edited October 19, 2023 by Odd.

[Riddikulus]

7 minutes ago, moosehead said:

There is absolutely no valid justification for bombing schools, churchs or hospitals.  

Sorry but this is just not acceptable under any conditions. 

You can turn any target into a military target by claiming "there were terrorists hiding there!" and the civilians that inevitably die can just be referred to as "human shields".