Hamas attacking Israel

[Playoff Beered]

4 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

I now carry a tarnish of a warning point, it disgusts me. I will still be around to lurk and the odd fun post but I wil no longer contribute any personal information or insight. I have lost trust. 

 

I think it's only because this topic is highly charged. I also was given a warning point because I wrote "for the slow folks in the back" while reposting some information regarding the hospital attack in Gaza. I'm 100% convinced that if we were discussing draft picks or a penalty call that sentence wouldn't be given a second thought by the mods. Just have to tip toe a bit and self censure because folks get butt hurt really easily concerning this issue. BTW I think you're a great part of this forum and like reading your posts.

[bishopshodan]

5 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

I think it's only because this topic is highly charged. I also was given a warning point because I wrote "for the slow folks in the back" while reposting some information regarding the hospital attack in Gaza. I'm 100% convinced that if we were discussing draft picks or a penalty call that sentence wouldn't be given a second thought by the mods. Just have to tip toe a bit and self censure because folks get butt hurt really easily concerning this issue. BTW I think you're a great part of this forum and like reading your posts.

Thank you very much.

 

You are easily one of my favourite posters on here. Your meme kung-fu is off the charts and you are smart AF.

Dont go getting yourself in deeper trouble. 

 

For the record, i think the mods here are top tier. We are all only human. I will try to learn to stick up for myself without ruffling too many feathers going forward. Though I dont agree with what happened to me, I blame myself for not communicating better. I've never read any of Jocko's books but i have always lived with extreme ownership. 

[Playoff Beered]

4 hours ago, Heretic said:

From 7 years ago, The Middle East Problem by Dennis Prager:
 

Oh, I looked him up, according to Wikipedia, he is NOT a fraud. 

Dennis Prager may not be a fraud but he's extremely right wing biased.

 

https://bridge.georgetown.edu/research/factsheet-prageru/

 

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/06/07/prageru’s-influence

 

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/prager-university

 

Quote

PragerU is known for their "5 Minute Idea" videos that their CEO Marissa Strait describes as "edutainment." However, PragerU has been repeatedly rebuked by historians and political scientists for spreading disinformation, including climate change denial, and making inaccurate claims about slavery and racism in the United States. The Southern Poverty Law Center has called out PragerU's videos as an "indispensable propaganda devise for the right." The Anti-Defamation League has also called out Dennis Prager for anti-Semitic statements.

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, Sharpshooter said:

Totally unlikely, I agree. 
 

But, showing the ‘power’ to a potential new ‘market’, and allies that are against the US, is certainly part of Xi’s playbook. 
 

Xi wants China to be the alternative to the US economically, politically and militarily. 
 

We should move this discussion to a China Thread though, before we get too much into the weeds. 

The USA will have 4 carrier groups within striking distance of Iran if Iran takes some kind of action against Israel. Perhaps the Chinese are sending a carrier as some perceived deterrent to any possible action by the Americans. The action in Gaza is immediate and required. It will not change the broader strategic consideration about what to do with Iran. Iran promotes and funds both Hamas and Hezbollah. Iran continues to develop their nuke. Hopefully the Democrats will realize that playing nice with the mullahs in Tehran is a bad gamble. The Iranians fought Iraq for over 8 years. Saddam was a Sunni. At some point the Iranians have to be dealt with and that has to happen before they have a bomb.  

[The Duke]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

I suspect the Chinese ships are more for domestic headlines for Xi than actual involvement. Who would he be protecting? China doesn't care one iota about Gaza.

 

Pooty is great at picking things that benefit him personally.

For sure.  I took a lot of world / strategic classes in university and the big idea I took away from China is that everything China does is first and foremost for their own people.  
 

Chinese historically and culturally accept a natural cycle of revolt / rebuild when a government starts to become ineffective so leaders are always concerned about their own people.

 

Putin comes from a KGB background had have been working double time lately to spread disinformation and disruption online.  Combined with his age and the success of far-right sentiment / civil discord in western nations I think he thought it was time to make his move in Ukraine as a legacy thing.  And to be fair, if it wasn’t for his own military’s ineptitude and Ukraine’s resolve he probably would have pulled it off.

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

The USA will have 4 carrier groups within striking distance of Iran if Iran takes some kind of action against Israel. Perhaps the Chinese are sending a carrier as some perceived deterrent to any possible action by the Americans. The action in Gaza is immediate and required. It will not change the broader strategic consideration about what to do with Iran. Iran promotes and funds both Hamas and Hezbollah. Iran continues to develop their nuke. Hopefully the Democrats will realize that playing nice with the mullahs in Tehran is a bad gamble. The Iranians fought Iraq for over 8 years. Saddam was a Sunni. At some point the Iranians have to be dealt with and that has to happen before they have a bomb.  

 

So how far is China willing to go for discount oil from Iran? 

 

 

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, The Duke said:

For sure.  I took a lot of world / strategic classes in university and the big idea I took away from China is that everything China does is first and foremost for their own people.  
 

Chinese historically and culturally accept a natural cycle of revolt / rebuild when a government starts to become ineffective so leaders are always concerned about their own people.

 

Putin comes from a KGB background had have been working double time lately to spread disinformation and disruption online.  Combined with his age and the success of far-right sentiment / civil discord in western nations I think he thought it was time to make his move in Ukraine as a legacy thing.  And to be fair, if it wasn’t for his own military’s ineptitude and Ukraine’s resolve he probably would have pulled it off.

 

Until Xi puts out a public warning to the US I'm not too concerned.

[Boudrias]

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

So how far is China willing to go for discount oil from Iran? 

 

 

I'll drive 7 miles to the USA border to save 60 cents a litre and a six pack of Kokanee for cheap. My guess is that the Chinese will save more money if they gas up their carrier. 

[RomanPer]

Let’s see what kind of verbal gymnastics the “anti-Israeli is not antisemitic” side will use this time

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by RomanPer

[Sharpshooter]

16 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

Let’s see what kind of verbal gymnastics the pro-Palestinian side will use this time

 

Please remember that you and I are also Pro-Palestinian. 
 

We both want their freedom, rights, security and own State. 
 

Pro-Hamas is different. 
 

Even Palestinians aren’t able to separate the two. 
 

We’re smarter than that here. 

[RomanPer]

Just now, Sharpshooter said:

Please remember that you and I are also Pro-Palestinian. 
 

We both want their freedom, rights, security and own State. 
 

Pro-Hamas is different. 
 

Even Palestinians aren’t able to separate the two. 
 

We’re smarter than that here. 

Sorry, I should have said “anti-Israeli that is not equal to antisemitic”

[Playoff Beered]

 

[moosehead]

29 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

Let’s see what kind of verbal gymnastics the “anti-Israeli is not antisemitic” side will use this time

 

 

 

Horrible news.  So sad for her family.  Violence solves nothing.  Hope the perpetrator is found quickly and faces full punishment for such a horrendous act.

So many pycho's in our world.     Sad to see innocent people hurt for nothing.   Disgusting.    

 

[bolt]

Very easy to consume yourself with hate.

[Sharpshooter]

 

[Sharpshooter]

 

[Sabrefan1]

17 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

 

 

 

 

[Sabrefan1]

Ughhh.  The pain.  Nobody thought my Imperial Death March joke was funny....  ...

[RomanPer]

Here’s a great podcast that maybe will open some eyes on the Jewish side of the story:

 

[Canuck Surfer]

10 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

These terrible things are happening, I am thankful that it is not so bad in the West Bank though as it is in Gaza. Small condolence, i know, but I am very hopeful that peaceful minds will prevail in the West Bank.

 

North and West of Tel Aviv & Jersalem; no where near Gaza.

 

This was terrible.  

[Elias Pettersson]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

10 hours ago, The Duke said:

China does is first and foremost for their own people.  

 

China or Chinese leaders?

 

That Gorgeous flippin 3 damned project displaced more people than there is in Gaza, Israel combined also for that matter. 14 Million? Where are these Chinese being helped; Uyghur, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tiananmen square ///

 

They built cities for them & got ghosted...

 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Canuck Surfer

[Elias Pettersson]

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Israeli people chanting Bibi is a murderer...

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

16 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

 

I wonder how many of those hostages they would trade for Bibi?  

 

No I am not being serious.  Nor am I convinced 80% of Israeli's want his ousting!  Curious how this X / Tweet poster calculated...

 

 

11 hours ago, moosehead said:

Palestinians under attack as Israeli settler violence surges in the West Bank

The two weeks since Hamas's attack have seen a sharp increase in settler violence in the West Bank

 

Abed Wadi was getting dressed for the funeral when the message arrived.

It was an image, forwarded to him by a friend, of a group of masked men posing with axes, a petrol canister, and a chainsaw, with text printed on the image in Hebrew and Arabic.

"To all the rats in the sewers of Qusra village, we are waiting for you and we will not mourn you," the text said.

"The day of revenge is coming."

 

Qusra was Wadi's village, in the northern part of the West Bank near Nablus. The funeral that day was for four Palestinians from the village. Three had been killed the previous day - Wednesday 11 October - after Israeli settlers entered Qusra and attacked a Palestinian family home.

The fourth was shot dead in clashes with Israeli soldiers that followed.

 

The following day, the Qusra villagers were preparing to set out for a hospital half an hour away and return with the bodies of the dead. To do so, they would need to travel across land that is dotted with Israeli settlements, where the risk of violence, high even in ordinary times, has risen dramatically in the two weeks since the Hamas attack that launched a war with Israel.

Wadi put his phone down and continued getting dressed. There were four men in refrigerators in the hospital who needed to be brought home. He was not going to be deterred by a threat, he said. He had heard too many.

There was no way for Wadi to know that, in a few hours' time, hardline Israeli settlers would confront the funeral procession and his own brother and young nephew would be shot dead.

"If we had delayed one or even two days, what good would it have done?" Wadi said, sitting in the shaded courtyard of his family home in Qusra.

"Do you think that the settlers would have left this place on the second day?"

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67173344

 

I am happy there is some ant-govt revolt.  Albeit part militant rather than liberal.  I repeat my own concern about RW extremists parading & rampaging through the West Bank, and Al Aqsa.  I am not speaking of those heading to the Christian side to pray. Those going in to bust heads, under armed guard.  Not bust terrorists, bust civilians, farmers.  Having someone convicted of hate crimes as their defense minister, taking on more territory to settle. I am against all these things. Its too bad those guys could not be arrested & traded for hostages (Idid not say that, did I, redacted   ) presented to the world as a transparent effort to hold the Israeli side to rule of law.

 

To me Israel can earn public support worldwide against Hamas by cleaning up issues.  Could have earned support of its people with better security & patrols along its borders that were vanquished. These have been war zones frequently.  Bibi according to many, a politician that wins by dividing the nation, bringing out the extremist vote.

 

That is different than a security zone, arresting militia transporting missiles, launching missiles from occupied & bordering territories. Militia pressuring settlers for places to hide, routes, create tunnels. Hamas are terrorists IMO. I support a security zone while that is the case. Not re-settlement within it. And it is / was probably time to invite outside help to police these areas? I empathize with Jewish frustration about Hamas. I believe, imagine many in Gaza have less freedom to protest than those in Tel Aviv!  

 

 

I am not sure what to do to bring Palestinians to the table? Aside from not killing them.  When Hamas has no support except by muscle? I believe more will reject them.