Hamas attacking Israel

[Playoff Beered]

25 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Please cite Palestinian officials making genocidal comments (not Hamas).

 

Last I checked, in Gaza Hamas was the Palestinian officials.

[Sharpshooter]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Not with that attitude.

 

But if you just continue to settle their land, they won't have to be murdered at all will they?  They'll just kind of cease to exist.  Look at canada or the US and our lost tribes of the first nations people and even closer to home the lost tribes of the PNW.

 

Move enough out to move move enough in and eventually the issue just goes away

Truth. 
 

Same thing needs to happen there. 
 

A little T&R, would be good for that part of the world. 
 

It’s obviously way more complicated than that of course, but a little truth and a lot of reconciliation is looooooong overdue. 

[Riddikulus]

Just now, moosehead said:

 

2 million gaza citizens can not be murdered in 2023.  

In 2023 probably not, but given enough time it will eventually happen. Just look at the number of people who are being labeled anti-Semitic for calling for a cease-fire. As much as things progress, some things remain the same. I am not as optimistic as you that we will ever see a solution to this. 

[Sharpshooter]

Please keep all discussions and replies henceforth civil. 
 

Don’t make me hurt you. You’re doing it to yourselves. I love you but…

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said:

Truth. 
 

Same thing needs to happen there. 
 

A little T&R, would be good for that part of the world. 
 

It’s obviously way more complicated than that of course, but a little truth and a lot of reconciliation is looooooong overdue. 

Hamas will not admit they are wrong.  They consider themselves freedom fighters or some such crap.  Israel will not admit they are wrong.  Their leadership will not allow for it.  Netenyahu has openly supported Hamas.   https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

 

Settlement doesn't end the violence doesn't end.  hamas as stated was a symptom of a far greater issue between the two leadership groups.

 

Until BOTH sides change their ways BOTH sides will continue.  This is not one sided by any means even if one side is viscerally more visible in their actions towards the other.

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Last I checked, in Gaza Hamas was the Palestinian officials.

Then why do we keep hearing how Hamas has not allowed for any elections since 2005 or so?  if that is the case doesn't it make sense or suggest that palestinians have no actual credible leadership group and are in fact prisoners in their own nation from both sides of thigns?

[Sharpshooter]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Hamas will not admit they are wrong.  They consider themselves freedom fighters or some such crap.  Israel will not admit they are wrong.  Their leadership will not allow for it.  Netenyahu has openly supported Hamas.   https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

 

Settlement doesn't end the violence doesn't end.  hamas as stated was a symptom of a far greater issue between the two leadership groups.

 

Until BOTH sides change their ways BOTH sides will continue.  This is not one sided by any means even if one side is viscerally more visible in their actions towards the other.

Until both sides are changed, it’s a violent stalemate, with innocents taking the brunt of the calculations of their own domestic ‘power’. 
 

 

 

[Riddikulus]

22 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

I suspect the suspension from caucus is for things she said in caucus, which are confidential to the folks in that caucus. I am unfamiliar with the ONT NDP but generally in the past the NDP has been extremely concerned for Palestinians, rightfully so. If i were to guess, behind closed doors she probably doubled down on the original statement with something verbally more aggressively anti Israel..I am totally guessing, but it seems strange to boot her without some kind of insider info that we simply will never know. There is a chance it is strictly a political calculation, but unlikely, imo. More likely she lost her temper and is now finding out. 

 

edit: while I think everyone is definitively worried for the everyday Palestinian people, everyone except their leaders who started this war, there are some who are also very much in favour of those very leaders who started this war, Hamas: and that is a terrorist organization by every standard, and legally so in Canada. Feels like she might have gone that far in order to get the boot, again just a semi educated guess. A minority of folks seem to be demanding that to be 'for' the palestian people folks must also be pro-Hamas, wouldn't be unheard of if she crossed that line.

I understand you are just speculating but having followed the politics in this province, I don't think it is particularly accurate. The reason she is gone is because Ford made it an issue. The Ontario NDP didn't vote to censure her, they got rid of her because it became a distraction. A war happening thousands of km away has little to do with the people of this province and a provincial party has little to no influence to speak of in the matter of foreign affairs. It might seem unfair to get rid of her for saying something so innocuous but it will stop Ford from using it as a distraction to deflect from his many scandals. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Riddikulus

[Playoff Beered]

10 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Then why do we keep hearing how Hamas has not allowed for any elections since 2005 or so?  if that is the case doesn't it make sense or suggest that palestinians have no actual credible leadership group and are in fact prisoners in their own nation from both sides of thigns?

 

Well by that metric then North Korean's have no actual credible leadership group, and neither do Iranian's, Syrian's and a bunch of other countries too, so like it or not, the fact is they are the official representative's of Gaza. 

[Ilunga]

7 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

curious how you would interpret the North American "settler" pov with your take on ME history. 

 

Seems to me its not helping in any way to bring this conflict to a resolution. 

 

As far as I am concerned nobody on this Planet really owns the land they dwell on.

As I stated, we are merely custodians of the land/ planet we live on.

The last few generations have done a sh!tty job of looking after the planet we are passing on to the next generations. 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Odd. said:

Please cite Palestinian officials making genocidal comments (not Hamas).

 

Palestinian Authority Issues Call to 'Murder Jews', Tells Islamic Leaders to Incite Violence | CBN News

 

Palestinian Authority Issues Call to 'Murder Jews', Tells Islamic Leaders to Incite Violence

 

An official document of the Palestinian Authority (PA) is calling for the murder of Jews.

 

The Palestinians are calling Islamic leaders to incite violence and murder on Friday, citing the Islamic verse: "O Abd Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him." That verse about killing Jews comes straight from the Hadith, a collection of sayings by Islam's founder Muhammad.

 

The one-page document published Friday morning by the Palestinian Ministry of Endowments was revealed by the research departments of the Jewish Voice and the Regavim movement. It details a series of instructions and messages intended for Friday sermons.

 

CBN News has reviewed the document written in Arabic and the translation is accurate. 

 

The document contains strongly worded messages to incite Muslim followers. 

 

"We call upon our Palestinian people... to preserve public property And the personal is a religious and moral national duty.. Our Palestinian people, despite the pain and tragedies, cannot raise a white flag until the occupation is removed and the independent Palestinian state is established with Jerusalem as its capital," the document reads. 
 
There is also a reference from the Sharia (a body of Islamic law that forms a part of the Islamic tradition) that's included in the document – the antisemitic hadith – inciting the murder of Jews, according to the Jewish Voice and Regavim. 

 

"The hour will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them, until the Jew hides behind the stones and the trees and the stones or the trees say 'O Muslim, O servant of Allah, this is a Jew behind me, Come and kill him,'" the document said. 

 

Israel said Friday it does not plan to take long-term control over the Gaza Strip after an expected ground offensive to root out Hamas terrorists that rule the territory.

"This document is blatant and further proof that there is no fundamental difference between the goals of Hamas and the goals of the Palestinian Authority... It is also about one thing – the murder of Jews wherever they are and the elimination of Jews from all over the country," Regavim said in a statement. 

 

"It is the duty of the State of Israel to prevent incitement sermons in mosques. The document is a declaration of war for all intents and purposes. We must not fall under the illusion that the Palestinian Authority is different from Hamas, and the thought of giving them control over Gaza is dangerous and irresponsible," the statement continued. 

"The explicit call for incitement joins the line of statements of support for the murderous attack on Simchat Torah, for salary payments to the killers and their families, including the baby killers and the communities in the Gaza Strip and in the south. These messages will lead directly to attacks and murder, it is forbidden and dangerous to allow them to exist," the statement concluded. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Elias Pettersson]

42 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Then why do we keep hearing how Hamas has not allowed for any elections since 2005 or so?  if that is the case doesn't it make sense or suggest that palestinians have no actual credible leadership group and are in fact prisoners in their own nation from both sides of thigns?

 

Both Hamas and Bibi are keeping the Palestinian people living in Gaza as prisoners in their own nation.  Both need to be eliminated from the earth...

[Bob Long]

26 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

As far as I am concerned nobody on this Planet really owns the land they dwell on.

As I stated, we are merely custodians of the land/ planet we live on.

The last few generations have done a sh!tty job of looking after the planet we are passing on to the next generations. 

 

 

We have that's hard to argue 

[Sharpshooter]

 

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

 

 

Nike apparently is already working on an ad from this...

[Sharpshooter]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Nike apparently is already working on an ad from this...

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, moosehead said:

 

Do you think they. have a Hamas tattoo on their forehead. 

 

They will simply dress as civilians and slip through security.  40 K  Hamas members will simply melt into civilian members....

 

You can not kill an ideology by bombing it.     Peace is the only way forward. 

 

No but you can remove it's leaders and bring in an actual democracy.

[Elias Pettersson]

JUST IN - Israel is delaying the Gaza invasion to allow the Pentagon to swiftly deploy nearly a dozen air defense systems across the Middle East, covering U.S. troops stationed in Iraq, Syria, Kuwait, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates.

 

U.S. military officials believe that American forces will be targeted by various Iranian proxies and militant groups once the incursion begins.

These air defense systems are designed to intercept missiles, rockets, and drones to protect U.S. troops in the region.

 

Source: WSJ

Edited October 26, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[moosehead]

32 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

No but you can remove it's leaders and bring in an actual democracy.

 

Remove in the head of this snake... unfortunately it will just grow a need head...... / leaders

 

The solution is to improve the lives of the people in gaza and start productive negotiations.  Once people in Gaza see some kind of a future..... extreme politics will slowly evaporate and more moderate politics will being to flower.... like a rose. 

16 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

JUST IN - Israel is delaying the Gaza invasion to allow the Pentagon to swiftly deploy nearly a dozen air defense systems across the Middle East, covering U.S. troops stationed in Iraq, Syria, Kuwait, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates.

 

U.S. military officials believe that American forces will be targeted by various Iranian proxies and militant groups once the incursion begins.

These air defense systems are designed to intercept missiles, rockets, and drones to protect U.S. troops in the region.

 

Source: WSJ

 

Sorry. Old news here.  

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Remove in the head of this snake... unfortunately it will just grow a need head...... / leaders

 

The solution is to improve the lives of the people in gaza and start productive negotiations.  Once people in Gaza see some kind of a future..... extreme politics will slowly evaporate and more moderate politics will being to flower.... like a rose. 

 

Sorry. Old news here.  

 

Ok but how? 

[moosehead]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Ok but how? 

 

Not sure, but i do know this current approach will not work.

 

Heh, i am for arresting terrorists......    or if they won't be arrested - killing them if required.

 

I just do not support the collective punishment of women and children or the intentional destruction of infrastrucure 

Go after those that  actually committed these horrific killings / kidnappings.  Even if it takes 20 years to find each of them. 

 

The only way long lasting peace will achieved will be with a 2 state creation. 

Hopefully the PA can negotiate with  Israel / EU / USA  and this can be achieved. Obviously both sides will need to compromise.

EU and USA can put pressure on both sides to compromise.

 

Obviously very difficult to find a solution.   I just don't see tit for tat killings as resulting in any kind of progress forward.  

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by moosehead

[Canuck Surfer]

12 hours ago, RomanPer said:

I’m glad you found this video. I hope that when such facts come from people other than me in this thread, they might have bigger effect. There seems to be a group of posters here who immediately dismiss whatever I say, no matter what it is.

 

Here is an extremely polite; but significantly even more pointed Jewish view.  

 

This delves much more deeply into the anthropology of the area; using biblical & historical reference, also the Quran. Noting formations of people as 'Palestinian' also occurred well after Jerusalem's holiest of places for Christians and Jews were relevant. That formation for Al Aqsa being a holy site, 3rd most relevant in Muslim doctrine as place of rising for Muhammad, is cited albeit as occurring almost 1500 years later than original relevance to for Jewish people. 

 

I mentioned polite. It is. This does not claim to exclude Muslims' from Jerusalem.  Has no calls for militance in any way? Kind of passes on Jewish violence while not denying it. Takes umbrage of violence against Jews far exceeding suffrage by Palestinian people even not mentioning Holocaust. Also other peoples in current Muslim countries. Examples included Jewish peoples being ethnically cleansed* from places like Morocco since 1948. Christians from Iraq, more than 2 Million just the last few decades.  Both equivalent to more than 95% of these regions association with specific cultural groups being wiped out. Is concerned about lack of access to Temple Mount & other holy sites. This poster effectively concludes, without saying so, Palestinian scale a convenient use of the word ethnic cleansing. 

 

His point that Jewish people are committed to their own people, not wiping out or even excluding Palestinian. At least there is no mention of it!  Simply their argument.

 

 

* I have noted concern for crimes against Palestinians'.  Yet made the same argument of significantly larger scale, not any reference to Palestinian one's being untrue, crimes even against other Muslim sects.  By groups currently associated with & connected to Hamas. Other primarily militantly held Islamic nations. All in the most recent 30 years. This video mentions those by Muslims against non Muslim cultures. I discussed crimes of Muslim's attacking other Muslims. Convenient for Muslim countries to call Jewish activities genocide, when such activities are almost commonplace even amongst each other. I, of course want all such crimes exterminated.

 

Of course also genocide inferred against Jews as a rally cry does make it Antisemitism in my opinion. As its without regard for Jewish peace also. They are happy to kill each other; but it is not fair when its Jews... 

[Alflives]

Heard on the radio that Saudi Arabia intercepted a missile that was headed to Israel (fired from Yemen). Are the Saudi Arabians actually helping out Israel? 

[Sharpshooter]

CNN: Hamas used phone lines in tunnels under Gaza for over 2 years to plan the Israel attack

 

During the two years of planning, the small cell operating in the tunnels used the hardwired phone lines to communicate and plan the operation but stayed dark until it was time to activate and call on hundreds of Hamas fighters to launch the October 7 attack.

 

This allowed them to avoid detection by Israeli intelligence.

 

The tunnels make up a vast labyrinth that is used to store rockets and ammunition caches, as well as provide a way for militants to move about unnoticed.

 

The IDF also says it contains vital Hamas command and control centers.
 

 

[Bob Long]

39 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Heard on the radio that Saudi Arabia intercepted a missile that was headed to Israel (fired from Yemen). Are the Saudi Arabians actually helping out Israel? 

 

They have a lot of money and US arms at stake if their peace deal with Israel gets derailed, which is what Hamas and Iran really want.