RomanPer Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 I just came across this fascinating story of a person doing actual research and switching from hate to something completely different: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 1 hour ago, bolt said: Have they denounced anti-semitism and barbaric killings? or do they not want to offend some of the regimes they allow on council? Yes they have https://medium.com/@UN/un-secretary-general-warns-of-rise-in-anti-semitism-other-forms-of-hatred-2ef890830636 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, RomanPer said: Gutierrez went as far as practically blaming Israel for October 7th attack a few days ago. https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/israel-accuses-chief-justifying-terrorism-hamas-attack-didnt-104278066 From the article " This is false. It was the opposite he said " " He reiterated the start of his statement on Tuesday I have condemned unequivocally the horrifying and unprecedented 7th October acts of terror by Hamas in Isreal. Nothing can justify the deliberate killing, injuring and killing of civilians - or the launching of rockets against civilian targets " That combined with what I just posted about him condemning anti semitism previously clearly illustrates how he feels about this. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Canuck Surfer Posted October 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 28, 2023 10 hours ago, moosehead said: You do realize that Hamas wants Israel to send in ground forces... right ? You do realize that this was Hamas's plan. It's terrible. The people are stuck! 10 hours ago, Sabrefan1 said: If they flatten everything in Gaza, that will force the surrounding Muslim countries to either take in millions of refugees that they don't want or block them at their borders and let many thousands of Gazans choose between rushing weapon guarded borders or starving to death. This could get uglier as time goes on and it won't just be Israel killing the Palestinians. Here is a thing? Yes, If PEOPLE, Muslim or otherwise from surrounding countries cared they would take in refugees. This said; Palestine is barely larger than Surrey, has almost exactly 4 x the population. 2 Million. There are currently 4.5Million displaced Yemeni, 4 Million Sudanese, 2 Million Christians were displaced, 95% of its population from Iraq in the last 20 years. It is unfortunately all too common, than it is abnormal. The media battle knows Palestinians as victims. Is convinced of the wrong enemy, as much as there is more than 1? 6 hours ago, moosehead said: I know people that lived in South Africa during Apartheid there that had quite the rich life as well..... Good on you. I know many. Many black, Afrikaner and white S Africans, including from periods of transition. Apartheid, while I agree wholly that Palestinians are suffering badly! We, you & I, share a belief in restraint? Apartheid is a very poor, with apologies because I appreciate your moderation, piss poor comparison. White's ruled over tribal Blacks in S Africa for their own benefit as it evolved into a modern 2knd world country over a period of 150 years. Yet we shouldn't blame white's, we should blame THOSE white's. That's an incrimination of the media, not you. Gaza is ruled by Hamas! Its people are caught up in the fact Hamas has a conflict with Israel, full stop. There are some, many behaviours Israel should be ashamed of, called to justice for. None of that changes how Gaza, parts of the West Bank who's politics are more dynamic, fluid, are ruled. I will get back to those. Irrespective most in Gaza have no choice. Some get hyped up, involved, believe in the conflict. Many are bystanders. Even more are victims of how Hamas runs Gaza with an iron fist. I fully believe, while civilians died as Israel has hunted Hamas from time to time that it is Hamas oppression. Gaza, as recently as 2006, was offered the two state solution when Israel retreated & pulled out of Gaza in 2006. Hamas polices its cities, runs its administrations as racketeering. They launch an attack versus accept the two state option, as soon as Israeli soldiers leave. Launch missiles, which draws a response. And results in a blockade. Moosehead, you personally called for Israel to invest in their infrastructure? I also agree, but its not realistic. Hamas runs Gaza like Asaad runs Syria, whose war has killed the equivalent of 1/2 Gaza's population. Ten times what Israel has inflicted since 1948? Displaced double the civilian population. Carpet bombed its 2knd largest city Aleppo, because it had people who wanted out of Hamas Asaad's rule. Those same, lets call them refugee's terrorists, to use a Western description? Those terrorists escape Syria, Iraq, escape local ethnic cleansing & come to Gaza to hide. Get paid by Hamas to dig tunnels. They are experienced fighters, so they cross borders bring back weapons, goods. Provide security for parties heading to Yemen, Iran, Qatar to buy and transport weapons, bring back other soldiers. Inside Gaza? One robs a guy running his, let's keep to stereotypes, Kebab staal on the street. His buddies swoop in. Get free food to keep the robber away. Pays the Kebab shops kids, to dig tunnels as well. Its racketeering, gang life, violent but pays double what the Kebab shop makes. This is how trained fighters are used by Hamas to control populations, the flow of goods illegal and required, like food. Then they operate their Kebab shops on top of the tunnels, where their supplies come? And they also pull missiles up. Opposite the=ose apartments where they are launched in to Israeli CIVILIAN territory. The local civilians in Gaza don't have iron shield. They local civilians are F'd! This is how Gaza, Sudan, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Libya, perhaps Iran are run. The problem is just more prolific in Gaza, has a larger share of the Worlds attention. PULLED OUT did Israel. Were there more egregious acts by Israel before 2006? Yes. Did Egypt, Syria, Jordan and other Muslim countries, Saudi Arabia, Syria help Palestinians? No, I'd say not really, but no! Not at all. Several attacked, tried to claim the same territory as their own. Specifically Egypt who had control for parts of 30 years. Similar groups, the entire region is historically & currently full of militant groups. Also wanted Israel, also did what Hamas is doing? Attacked Israel from places like Gaza, Hebron, the Sinai Peninsula, from the other Gulf, south of Eilat. These groups would have happily keep Jews AND 'Palestinians' in servitude as it existed in Apartheid. Israel negotiated before 2006, also gave back the Sinai peninsula to Egypt. Where Palestinian refugees are not welcome. Should Israel give back more, yes. They are argue security is the reason the cannot. It must have some merit? Fear of these terrorists among the key reason Arab countries don't want refugee's. In any case, the World needs to see Hamas as the oppressor, which they are. Sooner or later, I suggested this before, more stable and less militant Arab nations are going to have to volunteer to help police area's like Gaza. @Playoff Beered posted an excellent article, on this component, of what could be done. That same article more or less condones Israel removing Hamas, regardless of cost. Which you and I disagree with. Yet Hamas still has to be removed! I am not an expert. My wish is restraint by Israel, backed by both the UN & stable nations to back a much more serious blockade of Gaza? Rather than full scale attack. It looks like I will very far from reality with that wish. It seems deafening in its approach. 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 5 hours ago, moosehead said: Hmmmm believe some random guys on a hockey chat forum. Sorry NOPE. I am going to have to trust. the United Nations.... The United Nations (UN) is an intergovernmental organization whose stated purposes are to maintain international peace and security, develop friendly relations among nations, achieve international cooperation, and serve as a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations UN Secretary General António Guterres reiterated his call for a humanitarian truce ahead of the General Assembly vote, calling for the "unconditional release of all hostages" and for life-saving supplies to be delivered into Gaza "at the scale needed." "Everyone must assume their responsibilities. This is a moment of truth. History will judge us all," Guterres said in a post on the social media platform X, formerly known as Twitter. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-ground-raid-gaza-strikes-syria-un-vote-eu-ceasefire-1.7010037 55 countries in the UN didn't even have the balls to call this a terrorist attack, and another 23 countries abstained. So, their credibility is shot on this one. Also, how exactly is the UN going to force Hamas to release all of their hostages? Are they going to ask politiely? I'm sorry, but unless the US gets involved like they always do, the UN is pretty much useless when it comes to having any power in a time of war... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Some of these conversations! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 13 hours ago, moosehead said: No one has the right to kill innocent women and children. It is a War Crime you are supporting. There was no Nuremburg in 1945 for the Allies. All truth is nuanced in war. This is a war and innocents will die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 8 hours ago, Ilunga said: So going by your logic should we " exterminate " as you put it the Isreali settlers that commit acts of violence on innocent Palestinians ? https://time.com/6329142/west-bank-settler-violence-israel-security/ And just so we are clear on my position about the attacks by Hamas, from the article " While Isreal is focused on its justified fight against Hamas in Gaza, it cannot neglect what is happening in the west bank where settler violence threatens the integrity of Isreals security and democracy " And what about this guy heffy, Ben Gvir https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-66614459 " He has previous convictions for racism and supporting terrorism " "In December he was made a top minister by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu who gave him a seat in his security cabinet and put him in charge of domestic police " So what is it heffy ? " Exterminate " people that commit acts of violence on one side of the conflict and not the other ? And just so we are clear about my position, members from both sides that commit acts of violence against unarmed members of the other side should be brought to justice and if it involves them being killed as a last resort then that sadly that is what must happen. @RomanPer is right. We have to figure out how to get rid of the crazies on both sides. imo many on the left are unintentionally (in many cases) bolstering Hamas, but it's also a consequence of our disinformation age. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 What does free Palestine mean? Eradicate jews from Isreal? Free for hamas to fire rockets into Israel without repercussions? 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bob Long said: @RomanPer is right. We have to figure out how to get rid of the crazies on both sides. imo many on the left are unintentionally (in many cases) bolstering Hamas, but it's also a consequence of our disinformation age. imo many on the right are unintentionally ( in many cases ) bolstering Israel extremists but it's also a result of dislike / fear of islam Would North Americans support the Permenent Internment / caged of 2 million christians who are limited in water, food , medicine and electricity. Edited October 28, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 16 minutes ago, moosehead said: imo many on the right are unintentionally ( in many cases ) bolstering Israel extremists but it's also a result of dislike / fear of islam Likely that islamic fear plays into the far right for sure. The far right politicians certainly use it. 16 minutes ago, moosehead said: Would North Americans support the Permenent Internment / caged of 2 million christians who are limited in water, food , medicine and electricity. But that's not actually what Gaza is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Celtic fans.. https://theathletic.com/4988876/2023/10/26/celtic-palestinian-flags/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cerridwen Posted October 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 28, 2023 (edited) Just a random drive-by post as I wander 'round in trying to make sense of the madness.... Edited October 28, 2023 by Cerridwen 3 2 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted October 28, 2023 Author Share Posted October 28, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Here is a thing? Yes, If PEOPLE, Muslim or otherwise from surrounding countries cared they would take in refugees. This said; Palestine is barely larger than Surrey, has almost exactly 4 x the population. 2 Million. There are currently 4.5Million displaced Yemeni, 4 Million Sudanese, 2 Million Christians were displaced, 95% of its population from Iraq in the last 20 years. It is unfortunately all too common, than it is abnormal. The media battle knows Palestinians as victims. Is convinced of the wrong enemy, as much as there is more than 1? That is my exact point. Egypt closes off their only available pass every time there is even the possibility of large scale violence. No other surrounding Muslim country is willing to take them either. So when they publicly cry on behalf of Palestinians, I can't take it seriously. India has a class of people colloquially called the "untouchables", the Palestinians are the untouchables of the Middle East as far as the surrounding countries are concerned. Edited October 28, 2023 by Sabrefan1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Warhippy Posted October 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 28, 2023 Another day another stupid circular argument Civilian deaths are bad So you want Israel to not exist? That's not what I said So what are you saying? I'm saying civilian deaths are wrong So you're anti-semitic! Ummm no You just said you don't want Israel to exist No, just said civilians deaths are wrong Wow you hate the Jews Never said that Totally the leftist mantra to support Hamas Wtf? No just said civilian deaths are wrong Of course youd say that you're anti Semitic No....both sides are wrong So you do support Hamas. Knew it Never said that So what are you saying? That both sides are extremist and wrong So you think Israel shouldnt defend itself? Never said that Yes you did in your lefty rant Dude I never said that So what are you saying then? That civilian deaths are wrong Ok so you're anti Semitic and hate Israel Ladies and gentlemen, your last 136-137 pages 2 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 5 hours ago, moosehead said: imo many on the right are unintentionally ( in many cases ) bolstering Israel extremists but it's also a result of dislike / fear of islam Would North Americans support the Permenent Internment / caged of 2 million christians who are limited in water, food , medicine and electricity. Speaking of unintentional bolstering... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 5 hours ago, moosehead said: Would North Americans support the Permenent Internment / caged of 2 million christians who are limited in water, food , medicine and electricity. Don't hold your breath waiting on an answer outside of "strawman" 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Playoff Beered said: What makes that person far left? Left? Or anything but dumb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Absolutely brainwashed morons in England calling for intifada... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, Warhippy said: What makes that person far left? Left? Or anything but dumb? Indeed. Not sure why they were automatically labelled as far-left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, Warhippy said: What makes that person far left? Left? Or anything but dumb? an AOC bumper sticker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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