Ilunga Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 2 hours ago, Playoff Beered said: Speaking of unintentional bolstering... This guy can't even get his facts right. At 36 seconds in " In the 70 years since Hamas has been around " Hamas has been around for 70 years ? It was founded in 1987. There was a video you posted a while back that illustrated how Isreal helped Hamas when they formed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 6 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: You know I'm a Dr Who fan. Dont like that word, outside of the Daleks As you know so am I. I feel the same way you do. It's an extreme word used by extremists when used in relation to human beings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, Ilunga said: This guy can't even get his facts right. At 36 seconds in " In the 70 years since Hamas has been around " Hamas has been around for 70 years ? It was founded in 1987. There was a video you posted a while back that illustrated how Isreal helped Hamas when they formed. Splitting hairs... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hamas Quote Hamas was established in 1987, and has its origins in Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood movement, which had been active in the Gaza Strip since the 1950s and gained influence through a network of mosques and various charitable and social organizations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 Just now, Playoff Beered said: Splitting hairs... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hamas Fact of the matter is that Hamas as an organisation has only existed since 1987. I believe that guy is an extremist himself. He only fans the flames of hatred. That's the problem with twitter, it is not a reliable source. It is a source of confirmation bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Ilunga said: Fact of the matter is that Hamas as an organisation has only existed since 1987. I believe that guy is an extremist himself. He only fans the flames of hatred. That's the problem with twitter, it is not a reliable source. It is a source of confirmation bias. You're way of base. He's not calling for the destruction of Palestinians, he's calling out people that are brainwashed by Hamas propaganda, and in that I agree with him. Edited October 29, 2023 by Playoff Beered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 2 hours ago, Bob Long said: doing a quick search on Bernie and criticism on this issue, it appears to me that he's being accused from either end on not doing enough. Not sure he's done anything other than say the basic Israel has a right to defend itself, and aid should go to Gaza. Didn't see anything out of Bernie that warranted hate from any group but that never stoped anyone. Yep just look at this thread brother. Nearly all of us have condemned the attacks, condemned Hamas. Want them brought to justice one way or another. Want peace for both people. And still like hippy noted the argument goes around and around. I want them to have what we have, food on the table, a safe environment for their families, education. These things not just for Palestinians / Isrealis, but all people, everywhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said: You're way of base. He's not calling for the destruction of Palestinians, he's calling out people that are brainwashed by Hamas propaganda. You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine. I find his posts inflammatory and inaccurate at times. That video was a rant. It sounded like he was accusing us here in the west of being anti semitic. That were are fools. I don't believe we need voices like his in the current climate. What we need are people who can point out what we share in common, not the things that divide us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 Just now, Ilunga said: You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine. I find his posts inflammatory and inaccurate at times. That video was a rant. It sounded like he was accusing us here in the west of being anti semitic. That were are fools. I don't believe we need voices like his in the current climate. What we need are people who can point out what we share in common, not the things that divide us. In my opinion, if you believe that then you're not listening to what he's saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 15 minutes ago, Ilunga said: Yep just look at this thread brother. Nearly all of us have condemned the attacks, condemned Hamas. Want them brought to justice one way or another. Want peace for both people. And still like hippy noted the argument goes around and around. I want them to have what we have, food on the table, a safe environment for their families, education. These things not just for Palestinians / Isrealis, but all people, everywhere. Me too. I guess I'm just resigned to the fact that we humans only have so many tools in the box to make changes. Hamas has to go, I know that for sure. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 4 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said: In my opinion, if you believe that then you're not listening to what he's saying. I listened, swearing and ranting. As I stated getting his facts wrong. " How fucked up the world is, how biased it is because it is so saturated in anti - semitism, " against Isreal , against Isreal and on he goes. I heard the word peace once right at the end. As for the world is against Isreal, in most western countries the Isreali lobby groups are very powerful in regards to influencing governments. Especially the one that matters the most as evidenced by their reaction to this conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 23 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Me too. I guess I'm just resigned to the fact that we humans only have so many tools in the box to make changes. Hamas has to go, I know that for sure. I keep hearing Hamas has to go and I totally agree. How about Ben Gvir, this guy has been convicted by Isreali courts of incitement to racism, destroying property, possessing a terror organisations propaganda material and supporting a terror organisation. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/8/27/who-is-israels-far-right-pro-settler-security-minister-ben-gvir This guy hold a senior position in the Isreali government and is in charge of the police, who by accounts aren't happy about this https://www.timesofisrael.com/police-chief-and-ben-gvir-spar-over-who-cops-should-obey-in-constitutional-crisis/ Screw the law right ? Obey the government. Remind you of someone ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 8 minutes ago, Ilunga said: I listened, swearing and ranting. As I stated getting his facts wrong. " How fucked up the world is, how biased it is because it is so saturated in anti - semitism, " against Isreal , against Isreal and on he goes. I heard the word peace once right at the end. As for the world is against Isreal, in most western countries the Isreali lobby groups are very powerful in regards to influencing governments. Especially the one that matters the most as evidenced by their reaction to this conflict. Right, so you're listening with one ear closed because he (gasp) swears, he did not say "how fucked up the world is", he said how fucked up the worlds approach to the Israeli/Palastinian conflict is. He makes a strong case for his reasoning. I guess he's not polite enough in his delivery for you to understand what he's saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Playoff Beered said: Right, so you're listening with one ear closed because he (gasp) swears, he did not say "how fucked up the world is", he said how fucked up the worlds approach to the Israeli/Palastinian conflict is. He makes a strong case for his reasoning. I guess he's not polite enough in his delivery for you to understand what he's saying. No he is biased, that's why his message doesn't resonate with me. He does not differentiate between people who support peace and people who are blinded by propaganda from both sides. He can swear all he likes. He is certainly not a peacemaker, and that is what is need right now, they are always needed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 6 minutes ago, Ilunga said: No he is biased, that's why his message doesn't resonate with me. He does not differentiate between people who support peace and people who are blinded by propaganda from both sides. He can swear all he likes. He is certainly not a peacemaker, and that is what is need right now, they are always needed. Yes he's biased because he is jewish. At the moment he's not a peace maker because peace right now would lead to more bloodshed again in the future. In that I agree with him 100% 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Playoff Beered said: Yes he's biased because he is jewish. At the moment he's not a peace maker because peace right now would lead to more bloodshed again in the future. In that I agree with him 100% Yep some random person in the UK sets the moral tone for the entire world. No he doesn't. Brave man isn't he ? calling for his fellow Isrealis to risk their lives while he sits ranting behind his computer. One can call for Hamas to be neutralized and a peaceful solution to the conflict that has been going on for decades at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 32 minutes ago, Ilunga said: I keep hearing Hamas has to go and I totally agree. How about Ben Gvir, this guy has been convicted by Isreali courts of incitement to racism, destroying property, possessing a terror organisations propaganda material and supporting a terror organisation. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/8/27/who-is-israels-far-right-pro-settler-security-minister-ben-gvir This guy hold a senior position in the Isreali government and is in charge of the police, who by accounts aren't happy about this https://www.timesofisrael.com/police-chief-and-ben-gvir-spar-over-who-cops-should-obey-in-constitutional-crisis/ Screw the law right ? Obey the government. Remind you of someone ? That's what Roman was getting at, the extremists are driving too much now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Ilunga said: Yep some random person in the UK sets the moral tone for the entire world. No he doesn't. Brave man isn't he ? calling for his fellow Isrealis to risk their lives while he sits ranting behind his computer. One can call for Hamas to be neutralized and a peaceful solution to the conflict that has been going on for decades at the same time. First of all he's not some random, https://leekern.substack.com/about, and suggesting he sets the tone for the entire world is asinine. His bravery is silly to comment on, neither of us know anything about that. That's what he's saying, but you seem to think that can happen without bloodshed. Edited October 29, 2023 by Playoff Beered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said: First of all he's not some random, https://leekern.substack.com/about, and suggesting he sets the tone for the entire world is asinine. His bravery is silly to comment on, neither of us know anything about that. That's what he's saying, but you seem to think that can happen without bloodshed. So he wrote Borat 2 ? I am a multi time national and state champion MTB Am known in elite freeskiing circles around the world, so what. I have already posted the story other people told about my life so I won't bother doing it again. He is just another random like me. When one is ranting like he is, actions speak louder than words, that's what I was taught. If I believed for one second my presence would help a peaceful resolution I would be there as fast as I could get there. I only heard him use the word peace once. I seem to think there will be no bloodshed ? There already has been bloodshed long before this act of Terrorism, and I can see no end in sight. I will always remember " Borat " Sascha Baron Cohen going to America in late teens pretending to be an Israeli anti terrorism expert. Convincing a few Republican politicians, to back his " Kinderguardians " program. This program would put handguns, automatic weapons and rocket propelled grenades in the hands of children as young as three. Edit I found it. Edited October 29, 2023 by Ilunga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 18 minutes ago, Ilunga said: So he wrote Borat 2 ? I am a multi time national and state champion MTB Am known in elite freeskiing circles around the world, so what. I have already posted the story other people told about my life so I won't bother doing it again. He is just another random like me. When one is ranting like he is, actions speak louder than words, that's what I was taught. If I believed for one second my presence would help a peaceful resolution I would be there as fast as I could get there. I only heard him use the word peace once. I seem to think there will be no bloodshed ? There already has been bloodshed long before this act of Terrorism, and I can see no end in sight. I will always remember " Borat " Sascha Baron Cohen going to America in late teens pretending to be an Israeli anti terrorism expert. Convincing a few Republican politicians, to back his " Kinderguardians " program. This program would put handguns, automatic weapons and rocket propelled grenades in the hands of children as young as three. Edit I found it. He also wrote the series Who is America, the clip you posted. He's obviously not an extremist like you said earlier. Sure, when you put it that way then everybody is a random, but his opinion and insight is still valid as far as I'm concerned. You would be ranting too if you were hurting after watching your people get butchered, that's just human nature. Because he only used the word peace once you discount what he's saying and it's not worth examining his view about what's happening? I don't understand that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 8 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said: He also wrote the series Who is America, the clip you posted. He's obviously not an extremist like you said earlier. Sure, when you put it that way then everybody is a random, but his opinion and insight is still valid as far as I'm concerned. You would be ranting too if you were hurting after watching your people get butchered, that's just human nature. Because he only used the word peace once you discount what he's saying and it's not worth examining his view about what's happening? I don't understand that. See that's the difference with me, everyone is my people, I am hurting. My mum used to ask me, why do I take on others problems ? That's just the sort of person I am. Mate that speech was extreme, the world is saturated with anti semitism ? Saturated ? The world is against Isreal ? 2 carrier groups from the US makes that statement a crock of you know what. Most countries have come out in support of Isreal. He is biased, and his contributions don't lead to reasonable discussion on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Ilunga said: See that's the difference with me, everyone is my people, I am hurting. My mum used to ask me, why do I take on others problems ? That's just the sort of person I am. Mate that speech was extreme, the world is saturated with anti semitism ? Saturated ? The world is against Isreal ? 2 carrier groups from the US makes that statement a crock of you know what. Most countries have come out in support of Isreal. He is biased, and his contributions don't lead to reasonable discussion on this subject. Sure , but if you were from a historically marginalized peoples you might be biased too, I know I would be. Yes the western governments are pro Isreal but look at the mood in the streets. Massive demonstrations with people marching and chanting anti Israeli slogans and most of them don't even know what some of those chants mean, which was kinda his point, "From the river to the sea...", some even chanting "death to Isreal", etc. People tearing down posters of kidnap victims, painting Stars of David on jewish businesses and homes... https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/global-antisemitic-incidents-wake-hamas-war-israel https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/24/rise-in-antisemitism-brings-germans-back-to-most-horrific-times So all the Palestinians and Israeli's should just shut up because they're biased, or just him because he ranted? Ridiculous. Edited October 29, 2023 by Playoff Beered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted October 29, 2023 Author Share Posted October 29, 2023 4 hours ago, Ilunga said: That's the problem with twitter, it is not a reliable source. It is a source of confirmation bias. Twitter is a mirror of humanity. It has a sizable share of liars and deceivers. .... and ignoramuses, and low IQ loudmouths, bleeding heart virtue signalers, trolls, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 5 hours ago, Doogie said: Also, answer me this, everyone that says Israel has a right to defend itself, how by definition can an OCCUPYING force have any right to defend itself? How do I answer this bs without a ban? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 3 hours ago, Ilunga said: I keep hearing Hamas has to go and I totally agree. How about Ben Gvir, this guy has been convicted by Isreali courts of incitement to racism, destroying property, possessing a terror organisations propaganda material and supporting a terror organisation. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/8/27/who-is-israels-far-right-pro-settler-security-minister-ben-gvir This guy hold a senior position in the Isreali government and is in charge of the police, who by accounts aren't happy about this https://www.timesofisrael.com/police-chief-and-ben-gvir-spar-over-who-cops-should-obey-in-constitutional-crisis/ Screw the law right ? Obey the government. Remind you of someone ? Spoke with my sister in Beer Sheva this morning. A lot of people in Israel are livid about Ben Gvir being anywhere but in prison. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Ilunga said: See that's the difference with me, everyone is my people, I am hurting. My mum used to ask me, why do I take on others problems ? That's just the sort of person I am. Mate that speech was extreme, the world is saturated with anti semitism ? Saturated ? The world is against Isreal ? 2 carrier groups from the US makes that statement a crock of you know what. Most countries have come out in support of Isreal. He is biased, and his contributions don't lead to reasonable discussion on this subject. Brother, as a Jew who grew up hearing the stories about pogroms and Holocaust and felt antisemitism on my own skin many times, trust me when I say that it’s eerily similar out there now to the times that led to the things i mentioned above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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