Hamas attacking Israel

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

See the comment above.  Bibi has ben a politician since the 90s and hasn't been "voted out" even after his criminal cases and extremism.

 

That's not exactly an answer because one side can be voted out the other is under the militant rule of a terrorist organization that they have no means of freeing themselves from due to a lack of actual legitimate elections.

 

So.....isn't it safer to say that one side CAN remove their extremists democratically but doesn't and the other can't?

 

I'd say 'hasn't' vs doesn't but it can change quickly. 

 

Only one way to rid Palestinians of Hamas unfortunately.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Bob Long

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Not one person in this thread has ever given their support to Bibi.  In fact, quite the opposite.  Everyone, to a poster, agrees that he should be taken out.  Even Roman.  Bibi was elected democratically, so the people have to vote him out.  They actually have elections in Israel, unlike in Gaza or the West Bank, where there hasn't been an election in 15 years...

And not one person in this thread has ever said Israel has no right to exist or has spoken anything in an anti-semitic manner yet both accusations have been leveld numerous times.

 

Nobody supports him, I agree.  yet him and numerous members of his party responsible for a large number of policies and criminal issues that have resulted in the arming and silent support of hamas and the continued expansionist policies about settlement have managed to continue unabated for almost 30 years.

 

So things have to change but they aren't.

 

Yet

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'd say 'hasn't' vs doesn't but it can change quickly. 

 

Only one way to rid Palestinians of Hamas unfortunately.

Palestinians can not rid themselves of Hamas.  Yet they also can't defend themselves against accusations of not ridding themselves of hamas.

 

With Bibi being a politician for almost 30 years with the same policies it is looking a lot more like doesn't than hasn't.  

[RomanPer]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

And not one person in this thread has ever said Israel has no right to exist or has spoken anything in an anti-semitic manner yet both accusations have been leveld numerous times.

 

Nobody supports him, I agree.  yet him and numerous members of his party responsible for a large number of policies and criminal issues that have resulted in the arming and silent support of hamas and the continued expansionist policies about settlement have managed to continue unabated for almost 30 years.

 

So things have to change but they aren't.

 

Yet

 

Really? No one? I’m not going to do your work for you to go over 140 pages, but you will find several calls that Israel shouldn’t exist. Perhaps they were cleaned up by @Sharpshooter but they were definitely here. Also, using terminology like “apartheid” and “ethnic cleansing” and completely ignoring examples of the opposite is indeed anti-semitic.

[Bob Long]

Just now, Warhippy said:

Palestinians can not rid themselves of Hamas.  Yet they also can't defend themselves against accusations of not ridding themselves of hamas.

 

With Bibi being a politician for almost 30 years with the same policies it is looking a lot more like doesn't than hasn't.  

 

I'm not accusing Palestinians of anything. None of them voted to end their democratic rights or this invasion.

 

I know how Bibi's run will end, sooner or later. 

 

But you are correct, Palestinians need someone else to end this conflict.

 

It's what I keep coming back to, Israel has no good choices here.

[Gurn]

23 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

No, one side has a democratic solution to remove their extremists and one doesn't. 

Doesn't that just mean that Israeli people  condone what their militants are doing, by continuing to re-elect them?

 

[Bob Long]

Just now, Gurn said:

Doesn't that just mean that Israeli people  condone what their militants are doing, by continuing to re-elect them?

 

 

Some for sure. I need @RomanPer to do an explainer on how Bibi's coalition works.

[Warhippy]

Just now, RomanPer said:

 

Really? No one? I’m not going to do your work for you to go over 140 pages, but you will find several calls that Israel shouldn’t exist. Perhaps they were cleaned up by @Sharpshooter but they were definitely here. Also, using terminology like “apartheid” and “ethnic cleansing” and completely ignoring examples of the opposite is indeed anti-semitic.

Put your shoulders down son. 

 

Nobody has called for the destruction of Israel or suggested they don't deserve to exist.  Not once.  I have been here for every page and every post.  People have said some questionable things in anger, in response to angry responses and have made stupid comments but not once has anyone outright called for these or made these statements you claim.  Maybe Sharp or one of the other mods can prove verification of otherwise but sorry chap; I haven't seen it.

 

Just because YOU have decided that terminology like Apartheid or Ethnic Cleansing is not to your liking does not mean that numerous international courts and a significantly large host of lawyers, legal experts scholars and peace prize nominees agree with you because they use those terms quite freely when speaking of issues in the region.

 

You constantly shoot darts at others because they ask hard questions or don't tow a specific line and then get uptight and angry about it but you need to understand, these conversations and debates do not make people anti semitic anymore than you standing in a car park makes you a chevy cavalier.  Just because you don't like people asking hard questions or suggesting that a response is heavy handed or even that maybe just maybe the policy of one nation might be fuelling part of the on going issue of the other and creating a self perpetuating cycle of violence; doesn't make you right or give you the right to claim other people are bigots, racists or anti-semitic.

 

Being offended doesn't make you right sir.

[Warhippy]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'm not accusing Palestinians of anything. None of them voted to end their democratic rights or this invasion.

 

I know how Bibi's run will end, sooner or later. 

 

But you are correct, Palestinians need someone else to end this conflict.

 

It's what I keep coming back to, Israel has no good choices here.

Nowhere did I suggest or accuse you of blaming Palestine for anything.  They are literally unable to fight back.  

 

The other; it's what I keep going back to.  Israel with the help of the US has had the knowledge of where these "leaders are" and extra curricular activities in other nations have never been something the US or Israel has shied away from.  So why haven't they cut the head off of the snake before?  Between a policy shift and ensuring that the money handlers and senior members of groups like Hamas can never get their feet settled much of this issue would go away.  This policy shift, cutting the head off of the snake and severing financial abilities coupled with assisting palestinians in holding their own free and democratically run elections would have solved so many issues so long ago.

 

Instead....

[RomanPer]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Put your shoulders down son. 

 

Nobody has called for the destruction of Israel or suggested they don't deserve to exist.  Not once.  I have been here for every page and every post.  People have said some questionable things in anger, in response to angry responses and have made stupid comments but not once has anyone outright called for these or made these statements you claim.  Maybe Sharp or one of the other mods can prove verification of otherwise but sorry chap; I haven't seen it.

 

Just because YOU have decided that terminology like Apartheid or Ethnic Cleansing is not to your liking does not mean that numerous international courts and a significantly large host of lawyers, legal experts scholars and peace prize nominees agree with you because they use those terms quite freely when speaking of issues in the region.

 

You constantly shoot darts at others because they ask hard questions or don't tow a specific line and then get uptight and angry about it but you need to understand, these conversations and debates do not make people anti semitic anymore than you standing in a car park makes you a chevy cavalier.  Just because you don't like people asking hard questions or suggesting that a response is heavy handed or even that maybe just maybe the policy of one nation might be fuelling part of the on going issue of the other and creating a self perpetuating cycle of violence; doesn't make you right or give you the right to claim other people are bigots, racists or anti-semitic.

 

Being offended doesn't make you right sir.

 

Don’t “son” me, kid. There were numerous posts with “Israel shouldn’t exist” theme. Just because you missed them (or chose to miss them) doesn’t mean there weren’t here. You are still not answering a question about 2 million of Palestinians who are Israeli citizens with full rights in that “apartheid” country that practices “ethnic cleansing”. You can’t be partially pregnant.

[RomanPer]

8 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Put your shoulders down son. 

 

Nobody has called for the destruction of Israel or suggested they don't deserve to exist.  Not once.  I have been here for every page and every post.  People have said some questionable things in anger, in response to angry responses and have made stupid comments but not once has anyone outright called for these or made these statements you claim.  Maybe Sharp or one of the other mods can prove verification of otherwise but sorry chap; I haven't seen it.

 

Just because YOU have decided that terminology like Apartheid or Ethnic Cleansing is not to your liking does not mean that numerous international courts and a significantly large host of lawyers, legal experts scholars and peace prize nominees agree with you because they use those terms quite freely when speaking of issues in the region.

 

You constantly shoot darts at others because they ask hard questions or don't tow a specific line and then get uptight and angry about it but you need to understand, these conversations and debates do not make people anti semitic anymore than you standing in a car park makes you a chevy cavalier.  Just because you don't like people asking hard questions or suggesting that a response is heavy handed or even that maybe just maybe the policy of one nation might be fuelling part of the on going issue of the other and creating a self perpetuating cycle of violence; doesn't make you right or give you the right to claim other people are bigots, racists or anti-semitic.

 

Being offended doesn't make you right sir.

 

You also accused me in the past in calling for genocide of Palestinians. I would like to see a proof of this in any of my comments in this thread or any other thread in this forum.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Nowhere did I suggest or accuse you of blaming Palestine for anything.  They are literally unable to fight back.  

 

The other; it's what I keep going back to.  Israel with the help of the US has had the knowledge of where these "leaders are" and extra curricular activities in other nations have never been something the US or Israel has shied away from.  So why haven't they cut the head off of the snake before?  Between a policy shift and ensuring that the money handlers and senior members of groups like Hamas can never get their feet settled much of this issue would go away.  This policy shift, cutting the head off of the snake and severing financial abilities coupled with assisting palestinians in holding their own free and democratically run elections would have solved so many issues so long ago.

 

Instead....

 

Well, maybe because they hide in tunnels under hospitals? Because they govern by fear? If your family was threatened by Hamas to not push back I wonder how you would act. Getting rid of Hamas without a full scale invasion was likely impossible.

 

Also why is it Israels responsibility to ensure Palestinians made the right choice in government? Hamas made it Israels problem.

 

Here's another question - why doesn't Hamas surrender today? If they care about their own people they can end this today.

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

You also accused me in the past in calling for genocide of Palestinians. I would like to see a proof of this in any of my comments in this thread or any other thread in this forum.

Prove it.

[Bob Long]

12 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Put your shoulders down son. 

 

Nobody has called for the destruction of Israel or suggested they don't deserve to exist.  Not once.  I have been here for every page and every post.  People have said some questionable things in anger, in response to angry responses and have made stupid comments but not once has anyone outright called for these or made these statements you claim.  Maybe Sharp or one of the other mods can prove verification of otherwise but sorry chap; I haven't seen it.

 

Just because YOU have decided that terminology like Apartheid or Ethnic Cleansing is not to your liking does not mean that numerous international courts and a significantly large host of lawyers, legal experts scholars and peace prize nominees agree with you because they use those terms quite freely when speaking of issues in the region.

 

You constantly shoot darts at others because they ask hard questions or don't tow a specific line and then get uptight and angry about it but you need to understand, these conversations and debates do not make people anti semitic anymore than you standing in a car park makes you a chevy cavalier.  Just because you don't like people asking hard questions or suggesting that a response is heavy handed or even that maybe just maybe the policy of one nation might be fuelling part of the on going issue of the other and creating a self perpetuating cycle of violence; doesn't make you right or give you the right to claim other people are bigots, racists or anti-semitic.

 

Being offended doesn't make you right sir.

 

A lot of scholars on the left say a lot of things. They  also say stupid things like defund the police, doesn't mean that they are correct either.

[RomanPer]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Prove it.

 

Prove what?

[Elias Pettersson]

30 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

And not one person in this thread has ever said Israel has no right to exist or has spoken anything in an anti-semitic manner yet both accusations have been leveld numerous times.

 

Nobody supports him, I agree.  yet him and numerous members of his party responsible for a large number of policies and criminal issues that have resulted in the arming and silent support of hamas and the continued expansionist policies about settlement have managed to continue unabated for almost 30 years.

 

So things have to change but they aren't.

 

Yet

 

There were at least two posters that have stated that Israel does not even have a right to exist.  I tried to search for those posts but they may have been wiped by the moderators.  I even went back and forth with one of those posters to call them out on that statement...

[Warhippy]

5 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Don’t “son” me, kid. There were numerous posts with “Israel shouldn’t exist” theme. Just because you missed them (or chose to miss them) doesn’t mean there weren’t here. You are still not answering a question about 2 million of Palestinians who are Israeli citizens with full rights in that “apartheid” country that practices “ethnic cleansing”. You can’t be partially pregnant.

Didn't see one of the Son.  Not a single post that had that statement.  There were a number that stated that things SHOULD have been done differently at the outset without question and those are unquestionably in hindsight.  But posts stating they don't deserve to exist or defend themselves as a blanket statement.  Not a one.

 

You didn't ask me a question about Palestinian/Israelis.  But since ya want to have a row I'll be your huckleberry Son.

 

Numerous courts.  Peace prize nominees/winners.  Amnesty international.  Red Cross and even major prominent groups in support of Israel or run by people of the Jewish faith have made the statements and used the terms Apartheid.  Ethnic Cleansing.  I have made numerous comments about how this is close to the reservation system of Canada that existed in the late 1800s and early 1900s.  In Alberta there are two tribes of my people who literally live across the river from one another.  One side has access to oil and gas reserves.  The other does not.  Because of our system one side is VASTLY more wealthy than the ither while the one with no reserves lives in almost abject poverty.  One could say "you can't be partially pregnant" in this matter either but the system isn't fair and the side that sees benefits sure as hell won't give anything up while the side that has nothing sure as hell sees things differently.

 

So while it works for some in one place.  For the others who don't have those benefits of location it doesn't.  That's how life works.  So while there are unquestionably people in the region that have made things work in a nice symbiotic relationship there are others who do not have that benefit and THOSE are the people these individuals and groups are speaking of.  Like the "red headed step child" as it was.

 

So Son while you can have your opinion and call people names or claim they are anti semitic for having a differing opinion it doesn't make you right.  

7 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Prove what?

Show me where I said you called for a genocide of Palestinians.  Shouldn't be hard Son.

[Elias Pettersson]

11 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Well, maybe because they hide in tunnels under hospitals? Because they govern by fear? If your family was threatened by Hamas to not push back I wonder how you would act. Getting rid of Hamas without a full scale invasion was likely impossible.

 

Also why is it Israels responsibility to ensure Palestinians made the right choice in government? Hamas made it Israels problem.

 

Here's another question - why doesn't Hamas surrender today? If they care about their own people they can end this today.

 

Hamas leadership don't actually live in Gaza.  They live like billionaires in other countries while they watch their people suffer and die...

[Bob Long]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Hamas leadership don't actually live in Gaza.  They live like billionaires in other countries while they watch their people suffer and die...

 

Well that's convenient. I wonder how many studies they fund? 

[Warhippy]

9 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

A lot of scholars on the left say a lot of things. They  also say stupid things like defund the police, doesn't mean that they are correct either.

A lot of scholars on the left?

 

Why is it always the end result with you people to do that?

 

A lot of important individuals on the right think Palestine shouldn't exist.  Those same people also speak out frequently against judaism and the evils of Soros.

So can you just maybe not?  It's actually really childish to constantly do that and this is a serious matter that doesn't need the political jabs of what is the equivalent of a d**k swinging contest at the troughs

 

We aren't sitting here though and debating a political spectrum.  We are sitting here trying to decide how best to solve these issues by removing both tumours from the subjects in question without killing them in the process.

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Well that's convenient. I wonder how many studies they fund? 

 

How tiny Qatar hosts the leaders of Hamas without consequences | CBC News

 

Hamas leaders live in luxury in Doha, Qatar...

[Warhippy]

6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Hamas leadership don't actually live in Gaza.  They live like billionaires in other countries while they watch their people suffer and die...

 

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Well that's convenient. I wonder how many studies they fund? 

 

25 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Israel with the help of the US has had the knowledge of where these "leaders are" and extra curricular activities in other nations have never been something the US or Israel has shied away from.  So why haven't they cut the head off of the snake before?

I seriously wonder why they haven't at least cut off their funding or access to unds

[Elias Pettersson]

42 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Put your shoulders down son. 

 

Nobody has called for the destruction of Israel or suggested they don't deserve to exist.  Not once.  I have been here for every page and every post.  People have said some questionable things in anger, in response to angry responses and have made stupid comments but not once has anyone outright called for these or made these statements you claim.  Maybe Sharp or one of the other mods can prove verification of otherwise but sorry chap; I haven't seen it.

 

Just because YOU have decided that terminology like Apartheid or Ethnic Cleansing is not to your liking does not mean that numerous international courts and a significantly large host of lawyers, legal experts scholars and peace prize nominees agree with you because they use those terms quite freely when speaking of issues in the region.

 

You constantly shoot darts at others because they ask hard questions or don't tow a specific line and then get uptight and angry about it but you need to understand, these conversations and debates do not make people anti semitic anymore than you standing in a car park makes you a chevy cavalier.  Just because you don't like people asking hard questions or suggesting that a response is heavy handed or even that maybe just maybe the policy of one nation might be fuelling part of the on going issue of the other and creating a self perpetuating cycle of violence; doesn't make you right or give you the right to claim other people are bigots, racists or anti-semitic.

 

Being offended doesn't make you right sir.

 

I think you owe Roman an apology...  @RomanPer  And stop calling him "son", he's a 54-year-old man with a family.  How old are you?  Are you old enough to be his father?

 

On 10/10/2023 at 9:53 PM, Guntrix said:

Genuinely gobmsacked some people are siding with Israel. I urge fellow posters to pick up a book and read about what's been happening to the Palestinian people for the past 70 years. If you're going to form an opinion about a conflict as complicated as Palestine-Israel, you can't make up your mind based on what's occurred over the weekend.

 

And no, Israel has no legitimate argument to justify its right to exist. It's stolen Palestinian land. What's crazy is that this is considered an extreme opinion nowadays.

 

On 10/10/2023 at 10:00 PM, RomanPer said:

 

Thank you for making it to the ignore list so fast and without much drama.

 

[RomanPer]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I think you owe Roman an apology...  @RomanPer  And stop calling him "son", he's a 54-year-old man with a family.  How old are you?  Are you old enough to be his father?

 

 

 

Thank you, bud. Unfortunately, the only two people in this world who can call me “son” are no longer with us. I’m not going to engage with that hippy wannabe anymore.

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I think you owe Roman an apology...  @RomanPer  And stop calling him "son", he's a 54-year-old man with a family.  How old are you?  Are you old enough to be his father?

 

 

 

OK.

 

That looks like it was an ongoing conversation from what i can see with the poster (who made an asinine statement which is honestly disgusting) following u their statement over the following 7 or 8 pages. 

 

I disagree 100% with any comment or suggestion of the sort and would fight to the death against an individual who attempted to push that belief in the real world against any group of people because every single nation on this planet that was born out of blood or fire has a population that has the right to exist under their chosen name and background.  So while I was not right I will concede that to you sir and remind you that it troubles me people can make such blanket statements.

 

The casual nature in which anyone can suggest a nation shouldn't exist and the ramifications behind it are honestly beyond me.

 

As for the other comment.

 

I give respect where it's earned and just because that poster is in their 50s.  Has a family.  A cute kitten named Bella and likes to paint sunsets doesn't mean a damned thing to me nor is that worthy of respect.  That individual labeled me something truly egregious and has levelled various comments towards me of the same nature for simply having a conversation or interjecting questions in to an on going thread.  

Respect earned is respect given so until that apology is applied both ways in earnest that individual and your suggestion can kick rocks