Hamas attacking Israel

[Ilunga]

6 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Partially wrong in my view...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_Six-Day_War

 

 

 

Partially....right...sure

 

Well there is certainly no doubt about the 6 day war.

Their preemptive strike was a brilliant tactic.

 

Fact of the matter is you were wrong.

 

Isreal has started wars. 

 

 

[Odd.]

On 10/26/2023 at 1:51 PM, Playoff Beered said:

 

As was provided to you earlier, but you ignored it, if that is not enough then see the other links I posted below...

 

https://www2.cbn.com/news/world/palestinian-authority-issues-call-murder-jews-tells-islamic-leaders-incite-violence

 

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-114hhrg97265/html/CHRG-114hhrg97265.htm

 

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-114hhrg20651/html/CHRG-114hhrg20651.htm

 

https://palwatch.org/page/18541

 

As for who is in charge in Gaza, Hamas are the officials in charge of Gaza. FULL STOP. Hamas reports to the UN in Gaza. FULL STOP.

 

 

You are just making shit up left right and centre. 

 

 

Because they put their military in those places. See what you yourself wrote in the section below. You know that, but ignore it. 

 

 

Hamas is not in charge in the West Bank, but to suggest that they are not active there is absolute bull shit.

 

 

Hamas loves this comment.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-elected-to-govern-gaza-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2017/10/12/hamas-and-fatah-how-are-the-two-groups-different

https://www.vox.com/politics/2023/10/10/23911661/hamas-israel-war-gaza-palestine-explainer

 

Also, Hamas has ZERO influence in the West Bank. 

 

Your first link says “official document” yet you have no source on where the official document was actually published from. Not named, not dated. In a time where there’s  literal propaganda being printed out, if you have an actual quote of an actual person who said this and not a transcript that simply says “official”, that is not a valid source.

 

Your 2nd link, again, where’s the actual quote of a PLO official, name and dated, that has specifically called for the genocide of Jews? 

[Playoff Beered]

14 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

Partially....right...sure

 

Well there is certainly no doubt about the 6 day war.

Their preemptive strike was a brilliant tactic.

 

Fact of the matter is you were wrong.

 

Isreal has started wars. 

 

I'm sure you're happy I got it wrong.

 

I took it down, see my edited comment in your first post calling it out.

 

[RomanPer]

20 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Don't disagree with you brother.

That was strategically brilliant of them.

That's why the war only lasted six days, Isreal had command of the sky.

 

PB claimed Isreal hadn't started any wars, that claim was false.

 

I knew you would pick on that once I saw the image  

[Odd.]

NYC yesterday after an emergency sit in.

You know there’s something fundamentally wrong with Israel and Zionism when there are Jewish people who are against the apartheid state and occupation and don’t accept Zionism, an ideology that is based on Jewish supremacy off the backbone of people feeling sorry for them after WW2.

 

The idea of carpet bombing thousands because one or two terrorists happen to be somewhere around the vicinity is just asinine. You want to kill Hamas? Go in and find them. Why bomb thousands? 
 

If a serial killer has your mother at gunpoint,  how would you feel if a cop comes in and just starts gunning both of them down? “Ah well we killed the serial killer, we saved the day!” Yeah, and you also killed an innocent person.

 

Also here’s an IDF soldier killing a Palestinian child in the West Bank. So much for the West Bank “harbouring Hamas terrorists!!!!”

 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Odd.

[Ilunga]

9 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

I knew you would pick on that once I saw the image  

 

Nothing against Isreal my friend, as I stated brilliant tactic by them.

Probably saved thousands of lives  on both sides, at least. 

[Ilunga]

13 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

I'm sure you're happy I got it wrong.

 

I took it down, see my edited comment in your first post calling it out.

 

 

Not at all.

 

You pointed out to me in another thread I lacked information on a subject and I acknowledged you corrected me.

 

I am surprised you weren't aware of both those conflicts, both are very well known.

[Playoff Beered]

5 minutes ago, Odd. said:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-elected-to-govern-gaza-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2017/10/12/hamas-and-fatah-how-are-the-two-groups-different

https://www.vox.com/politics/2023/10/10/23911661/hamas-israel-war-gaza-palestine-explainer

 

Also, Hamas has ZERO influence in the West Bank. 

 

Your first link says “official document” yet you have no source on where the official document was actually published from. Not named, not dated. In a time where there’s  literal propaganda being printed out, if you have an actual quote of an actual person who said this and not a transcript that simply says “official”, that is not a valid source.

 

Your 2nd link, again, where’s the actual quote of a PLO official, name and dated, that has specifically called for the genocide of Jews? 

 

Zero influence officially, sure, but my claim is that they are active in the West Bank, and I stand by that.

 

The first link is something I found on line and it does look kinda strange, I'll concede to that.

 

The second link is the minutes of official US congressional hearings that are titled

WORDS HAVE CONSEQUENCES: PALESTINIAN
                  AUTHORITY INCITEMENT TO VIOLENCE AND
                    MARKUP OF H. RES 293, EXPRESSING
                      CONCERN OVER ANTI	ISRAEL AND
                   ANTI	SEMITIC INCITEMENT WITHIN THE
                         PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY

If the words "ANTI SEMITIC INCITEMENT WITHIN THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY" is not clear enough for you then I don't know what else to say.

[Odd.]

6 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Zero influence officially, sure, but my claim is that they are active in the West Bank, and I stand by that.

 

The first link is something I found on line and it does look kinda strange, I'll concede to that.

 

The second link is the minutes of official US congressional hearings that are titled

WORDS HAVE CONSEQUENCES: PALESTINIAN
                  AUTHORITY INCITEMENT TO VIOLENCE AND
                    MARKUP OF H. RES 293, EXPRESSING
                      CONCERN OVER ANTI	ISRAEL AND
                   ANTI	SEMITIC INCITEMENT WITHIN THE
                         PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY

If the words "ANTI SEMITIC INCITEMENT WITHIN THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY" is not clear enough for you then I don't know what else to say.

There’s a difference between anti semitism and calling for the complete genocide of Jews.

 

I don’t deny there are definitely a lot of anti semitic Palestinians, both Christian and Muslims. In their eyes they have good reason to be unfortunately.

 

When Israeli leaders are calling for the complete destruction of Palestine, it becomes considerably much harder to support them. Many Jewish people and the western world are quickly realizing that.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Odd.

[Playoff Beered]

8 minutes ago, Odd. said:

There’s a difference between anti semitism and calling for the complete genocide of Jews.

 

I don’t deny there are definitely a lot of anti semitic Palestinians, both Christian and Muslims. In their eyes they have good reason to be unfortunately.

 

When Israeli leaders are calling for the complete destruction of Palestine, it becomes considerably much harder to support them. Many Jewish people and the western world are quickly realizing that.

 

Do you have a link to an official Israeli document calling for the complete destruction of Palestine?

Edited October 30, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Playoff Beered]

16 minutes ago, Odd. said:

There’s a difference between anti semitism and calling for the complete genocide of Jews.

 

I don’t deny there are definitely a lot of anti semitic Palestinians, both Christian and Muslims. In their eyes they have good reason to be unfortunately.

 

When Israeli leaders are calling for the complete destruction of Palestine, it becomes considerably much harder to support them. Many Jewish people and the western world are quickly realizing that.

 

I want to also add that many Palestinians are not just anti semitic but also call for the complete destruction of Isreal.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Odd.]

10 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Do you have a link to an official Israeli document calling for the complete destruction of Palestine?

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-ministers-call-erase-palestinian-village-an-incitement-violence-us-says-2023-03-01/
 

No document, words. Made a whole list of Israeli officials genocidal language regarding Palestinians a couple of pages back.

[Lemon Face]

7 minutes ago, Odd. said:

There’s a difference between anti semitism and calling for the complete genocide of Jews.

 

I don’t deny there are definitely a lot of anti semitic Palestinians, both Christian and Muslims. In their eyes they have good reason to be unfortunately.

 

When Israeli leaders are calling for the complete destruction of Palestine, it becomes considerably much harder to support them. Many Jewish people and the western world are quickly realizing that.

Brother dont waste your time.If rain is hard in Israel and you say it,you are anti yew.We are all hostages of world war 2,Because of horrible crime by German nazy,Izrael has cart blanche to defend them self(kill others).Same chronology is strange.Did Palestine de solve Israel or other way around.Israel settlers are civiliams.There is only small problem.They are armed and they kill.Palestinians didnot kill Israel prime minister who signed peace agreement.Guy who did it is on photo with Nentanyahu.

12 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Do you have a link to an official Israeli document calling for the complete destruction of Palestine?

Defence minister caled Palestinians animals and as such they need to be dealt with

[Playoff Beered]

5 minutes ago, Odd. said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-ministers-call-erase-palestinian-village-an-incitement-violence-us-says-2023-03-01/
 

No document, words. Made a whole list of Israeli officials genocidal language regarding Palestinians a couple of pages back.

 

Right, so lots of words from both sides.

 

Understanding Hamas’s Genocidal Ideology

A close read of Hamas’s founding documents clearly shows its intentions.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/

Edited October 30, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Odd.]

5 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Right, so lots of words from both sides.

Yes… government officials. Ones with 24 billions of dollars worth of weapons and artillery and some nuclear capabilities. Don’t see how both hold the same amount of weight.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Odd.

[Playoff Beered]

9 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Yes… government officials. Ones with 24 billions of dollars worth of weapons and artillery and some nuclear capabilities. Don’t see how both hold the same amount of weight.

 

Maybe they shouldn't pick a fight with such a strong oponent then? 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Odd.]

13 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Maybe they shouldn't pick a fight with such a strong oponent then? 

 

Yeah we will offer you peace! But let’s still make Gaza an open air prison and restrict  who enters and exits. Let’s control electricity, food, water, and internet. We will give you guys no rights and oh, we will occasionally bomb places we think Hamas may be, so expect about 100-500 innocent deaths a year. We will also continue to expand our settlements in the West Bank. 
 

But yes, we will offer you peace guys! 

[Canuck Surfer]

16 hours ago, moosehead said:

Netanyahy and the Likud party / their supporters will say whatever to justify the ethnic cleansing and expanded settlements on Palestinian lands.

 

I do believe there is plenty of concern that is justified where settlers have 'settled!' In occupied territories, and rampaged , bullied, inflicted terror, even killed Palestinian farmers. There is a wing of Israeli citizens who have disdain, and / or believe the 2000 year old territorial rights allow them to 'settle?'  There is a militant wing of Orthodox Jewish extremists, who believe in a similar ME ONLY view of Holy sites in the West Bank. This has conditions though, for example an Israeli govt agreement with Palestinians has agreed Jewish Israeli citizens won't prey in the Al Aqsa Mosque. Despite Mosque, more or less, but absolutely significant parts of the Mosque having been built in equally holy sites for Jewish & Christian faiths. Those extremists have rampaged violently, sometimes with IDF support. Claiming the same exclusivity Muslims would prefer to have for their Mosque. These are complicated by security issues.

 

My opinion is such sites need to find a multi cultural balance. True believers in MOST religions, believe in the sanctity of peace.  I'd say welcome visitors, but of course not those who bust doors down, shoot guards & beat, even kill Muslims so they can 'pray' in conflict with agreements. 

 

That said, Hamas / Hezbollah policy has always been substantially more aggressive.  Israel, even where acting within boundaries, faces a policy by these groups such sites are 100% exclusively their territory.  Israel has millions of visitors each year, Jerusalem, the West Bank amongst the worlds most significant heritage sites. Providing security with those who don't want any such visitor on the premise that these are not Muslim Holy sites. I personally was, have not cancelled yet, a tour next year to see the Pyramids, also Petra & the Dead Sea in Jordan, swim in the Red Sea, visit Lebanon & Jerusalem. Providing security, has meant occupied territory access has been limited without Palestinian males 20 to 40 years old (exact?) being limited because of the # of militant activities.  So other Muslims suffer. That because, often worse than Settler abuse; militants launched rockets, took hostages, attacked border patrols. While I do not believe in Settler abuse / crimes. I understand why an Occupied West Bank is necessary status quo...

 

That is not Gaza though. Israel is not sneaking in and killing people. Taking civilian hostages? They have not torn down, or claimed Al Aqsa in the West Bank either! In spite of it having significant religious' & heritage value.  The area is contested and controlled.  Muslims have still prayed & had at worst, limited access since 1948! Despite idiots? 

 

There is way more effort trying to make things work, than ethnic cleansing. War crimes, yes, an attempt to cleanse absolutely not.

 

Nor is Gaza randomly bombed. Israel is trying to knock off guys with rockets on the top of buildings.  The solution starts with someone policing Gaza so those rockets stop being launched.

 

Are those rockets not an attempt to ethnically cleanse Jewish people?

[Playoff Beered]

5 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Yeah we will offer you peace! But let’s still make Gaza an open air prison and restrict  who enters and exits. Let’s control electricity, food, water, and internet. We will give you guys no rights and oh, we will occasionally bomb places we think Hamas may be, so expect about 100-500 innocent deaths a year. We will also continue to expand our settlements in the West Bank. 
 

But yes, we will offer you peace guys! 

 

Maybe don't spend billions you get in aid on rockets and tunnels to Isreal and then they would stop the restrictions?

[Playoff Beered]

53 minutes ago, Lemon Face said:

Brother dont waste your time.If rain is hard in Israel and you say it,you are anti yew.We are all hostages of world war 2,Because of horrible crime by German nazy,Izrael has cart blanche to defend them self(kill others).Same chronology is strange.Did Palestine de solve Israel or other way around.Israel settlers are civiliams.There is only small problem.They are armed and they kill.Palestinians didnot kill Israel prime minister who signed peace agreement.Guy who did it is on photo with Nentanyahu.

Defence minister caled Palestinians animals and as such they need to be dealt with

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Doogie]

On 10/28/2023 at 10:40 PM, RomanPer said:

 

How do I answer this bs without a ban?

You can’t answer it, you can’t justify how an OCCUPYING force is defending itself. 

[Doogie]

On 10/28/2023 at 5:49 PM, Sharpshooter said:

This is currently about the attack on Oct 7. There are certainly historical underpinnings but this is all about Oct 7. 
 

And suggesting that Israel doesn’t ‘care’ about women and children is beyond the pale. 
 

Tread carefully. I won’t allow further inflammatory statements. Consider this an informal warning to you and everyone here. 
 

It’s a sensitive subject/discussion, so we all need to pay attention to what we write and post. 
 

Look to the top of the page in the big red box, for guidance. 
 

 

I beg to differ. 
 

Also, it doesn’t seem like this is all about Oct 7, so why was my post deleted? 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Doogie

[moosehead]

5 hours ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Do you have a link to an official Israeli document calling for the complete destruction of Palestine?

 

A picture is worth 1000 words......

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by moosehead

[moosehead]

'How Netanyahu's Hamas policy came back to haunt him — and Israel

This symbiotic relationship between Netanyahu and Hamas has been remarked on for years, by both friends and enemies, hawks and doves.

Yuval Diskin, former head of Israel's Shin Bet security service, told the daily newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth in 2013 that "if we look at it over the years, one of the main people contributing to Hamas's strengthening has been Bibi Netanyahu, since his first term as prime minister."

 

In August 2019, former prime minister Ehud Barak told Israeli Army Radio that Netanyahu's "strategy is to keep Hamas alive and kicking … even at the price of abandoning the citizens [of the south] … in order to weaken the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah."

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035