Taxi Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said: 10 minutes ago An Israeli army soldier who was kidnapped into Gaza was rescued during a ground operation. She is in stable condition Hamas has stated they will return all hostages for a ceasefire and the release of Hamas prisoners held by Israel. Israel is clearly not entertaining that, as Hamas will just reload and it will encourage further attacks. Israel is going to try to free the hostages via military operation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 https://www.savethechildren.net/news/gaza-3195-children-killed-three-weeks-surpasses-annual-number-children-killed-conflict-zones#:~:text=Children are always the first,they have no part in. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Boudrias said: Pretty clear that there is agenda with that poster. Yes, peace for the region. Unlike those here that support the murder of women and children in Gaza. Edited October 30, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 50 minutes ago, RomanPer said: In his mind "Russia" = "USSR", which is straight out of putin propaganda books. He ignores the fact that ancient Rus was founded in Kyiv (hence the name Kyivan Rus), ancient Rus coat of arms was a Trident, ancient Rus currency was hryvnia. When Kyiv already had relationships with Europe and daughter of Kyiv prince Yaroslav, Anne, was a queen of France after marrying Henry I when Moscow didn't even exist. In the meantime, the coat of arms of Moscovia is a 2-headed eagle with its roots in the Golden Horde... But hey, why have facts kill a cool story, right? my family story is conflicted right now - mom's side from Ukraine, dads from near Moscow. I know how complex it can all get. One of the things thats under my skin right now is how superficial many of the statements and comparisons out of the left are (and I do know the right does this too I'm not supporting far right people). The left is supposed to be the more educated and balanced side, but man there's a lot of bullshit out there right now. Edited October 30, 2023 by Bob Long 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) A good read... He says it's too early to say where the current conflict will go, though many Israelis believe Israeli politics are more likely to move to the right than the left in the wake of Hamas' attack, which killed some 1,400 people in Israel and resulted in more than 220 hostages taken. "When I talk to Israeli officials, I don't get any sense that part of the strategy is providing a political horizon for Palestinians," he added, "which is what a peace agreement would ostensibly be." That doesn't mean Israeli citizens aren't pushing for peace at all. Sally Abed is a member of Standing Together, an organization that aims to improve Arab-Jewish relations within Israel, and she's also a Palestinian. "I really don't want to think that we needed to endure such loss, such atrocities here in Israel," she told NPR. "But maybe now I really hope that from this dark corner, we can have this shift in the paradigm on how we actually look at these wars and how, actually, we look at the Israeli control over Gaza and over the West Bank, and really have a different outlook on what our leadership actually should look like." https://www.npr.org/2023/10/27/1208694837/two-state-solution-israeli-palestinian-conflict Edited October 30, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Bob Long said: my family story is conflicted right now - mom's side from Ukraine, dads from near Moscow. I know how complex it can all get. One of the things thats under my skin right now is how superficial many the statements and comparisons out of the left are (and I do know the right does this too I'm not supporting far right people). The left is supposed to be the more educated and balanced side, but man there's a lot of bullshit out there right now. What gets under my skin... is the right's support for killing innocents civilians and labelling it as collateral damage.... the cost of taking care of business. Edited October 30, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, moosehead said: What gets under my skin... is the right's support for killing innocents civilians and labelling it as collateral damage.... the cost of taking care of business. Hamas can surrender right now and end all this. I know I'm a broken record on this, but show me a realistic alternative to shutting down Hamas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, Bob Long said: my family story is conflicted right now - mom's side from Ukraine, dads from near Moscow. I know how complex it can all get. One of the things thats under my skin right now is how superficial many of the statements and comparisons out of the left are (and I do know the right does this too I'm not supporting far right people). The left is supposed to be the more educated and balanced side, but man there's a lot of bullshit out there right now. I'm lucky in that regard - even though my wife is from Moscow, she's more pro-Ukraine than even I am 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, Bob Long said: The left is supposed to be the more educated and balanced side, but man there's a lot of bullshit out there right now. Again my dude. Stop that left v right nonsense. The world is not black and white but shades of grey. That partisanship and suggesting that one side is this or one side is that based on political spectrums is no different than saying this white guy should, or that black person shouldn't because [insert skin colour for justification] While there is NO COMPARISON in conflating racial background with political spectrums, I am suggesting they achieve the same result based on personal bias. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Hamas can surrender right now and end all this. I know I'm a broken record on this, but show me a realistic alternative to shutting down Hamas. I dunno. Educate, integrate palestinians more readily. Show them that there is options as opposed to sitting under the thumb of a terrorist group. then have them do the leg work in taking their country back and earning it instead of just being a whole mess of collateral damage between the two based on vengeance and ideological driven violence thus giving them the pride and history to actually control their own destinies based on their own actions by proving they want to be free and work towards a common good? Or....blockades and retaliatory bombing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Hamas can surrender right now and end all this. I know I'm a broken record on this, but show me a realistic alternative to shutting down Hamas. I am pro human Just want to see the elimination of suffering in the region. Israel will never kill / murder its way to peace. Same goes for Hamas. I do not support killing. The murder of innocent children and women needs to stop now. Edited October 30, 2023 by moosehead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Face Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: When i got time i will post my map.It is few years older then this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Warhippy said: I dunno. Educate, integrate palestinians more readily. Show them that there is options as opposed to sitting under the thumb of a terrorist group. then have them do the leg work in taking their country back and earning it instead of just being a whole mess of collateral damage between the two based on vengeance and ideological driven violence thus giving them the pride and history to actually control their own destinies based on their own actions by proving they want to be free and work towards a common good? Or....blockades and retaliatory bombing. Israel issued thousands of work permits for Gazans, starting in October of 2021. Just prior to the attacks they had given out tens of thousands of work permits. Hamas operatives used those permits to gather intelligence information that allowed them to pull off the attacks on October 6, 2023. Quote Since a 2021 war with Hamas, Israel has sought to provide a basic level of economic stability in Gaza by offering incentives including thousands of permits so Gazans can work in Israel or the West Bank, where salaries in construction, agriculture or service jobs can be 10 times the level of pay in Gaza. "We believed that the fact that they were coming in to work and bringing money into Gaza would create a certain level of calm. We were wrong," another Israeli army spokesperson said. An Israeli security source acknowledged Israel's security services were duped by Hamas. "They caused us to think they wanted money," the source said. "And all the time they were involved in exercises/drills until they ran riot." https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-israel-was-duped-hamas-planned-devastating-assault-2023-10-08/ The attackers from Gaza had detailed knowledge of the places they attacked. They knew exactly where to attack. Where the Israeli military outposts would be. Where bomb shelters were etc...the militants were found with detailed maps of where to attack. Knowledge that could only have been obtained from operatives who'd spent considerable amounts of time in Israel. Edited October 30, 2023 by Taxi 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Face Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Hamas can surrender right now and end all this. I know I'm a broken record on this, but show me a realistic alternative to shutting down Hamas. Israel created hamas.Without hamas there is no Israel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 45 minutes ago, moosehead said: Yes, peace for the region. Unlike those here that support the murder of women and children in Gaza. Umm, you wanna walk this statement back? Who exactly in here supports the murder of women and children in Gaza? I want actual proof, with posts showing these words. if you can't find any then you need to apologize to every poster in this thread. I'm not going to let you continue with your bs claims... 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, Lemon Face said: Israel created hamas.Without hamas there is no Israel. You are too smart for the people you are debating here. Some people just want to support the oppression of others... Is it racism ? Honestly, it could be. I was brough up to believe all people are equal regardless of race or religion. Israel created Hamas to stop the spread of more moderate Palestinian politicians / leadership. Occupation / Oppression and ethnic cleansing has no place in this world in 2023. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Face Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, moosehead said: You are too smart for the people you are debating here. Some people just want to support the oppression of others... Is it racism ? Honestly, it could be. I was brough up to believe all people are equal regardless of race or religion. Israel created Hamas to stop the spread of more moderate Palestinian politicians / leadership. Occupation / Oppression and ethnic cleansing has no place in this world in 2023. I dont keep any sides.I dont hate.Not even smart.I am only one of few survivors of Srebrenica. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Umm, you wanna walk this statement back? Who exactly in here supports the murder of women and children in Gaza? I want actual proof, with posts showing these words. if you can't find any then you need to apologize to every poster in this thread. I'm not going to let you continue with your bs claims... You have internet. Google is your buddy. Do your own research. Start in 2014. and then keep looking... For its part, Israel faces charges that it potentially breached international law in multiple areas of the conduct of its war, including the targeting of residential homes with precision, the excessive use of artillery in civilian areas, and the loosening of troops’ rules of engagement such as the use of the Hannibal Protocol in Rafah. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/22/un-accuses-israel-and-hamas-of-possible-war-crimes-during-2014-gaza-war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, moosehead said: You are too smart for the people you are debating here. Some people just want to support the oppression of others... Is it racism ? Honestly, it could be. I was brough up to believe all people are equal regardless of race or religion. Israel created Hamas to stop the spread of more moderate Palestinian politicians / leadership. Occupation / Oppression and ethnic cleansing has no place in this world in 2023. Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, which was created before Israel existed. Hamas was officially created in 1987. The First Intifada also began in 1987. Hamas' first military strike was in 1989, when they captured and killed two Israeli soldiers. Israel immediately outlawed Hamas, arrested everyone they could affiliated with Hamas, and began extensive military operations against Hamas. The Muslim Brotherhood had a policy of not taking military action against Israel. Israel never did anything to assist the Muslim Brotherhood, but also did not oppose them either. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Gaza's vital services are affected when fuel runs out Fuel is a lifeline for more than 2 million people in Gaza who, three weeks into the siege, are suffering from dire shortages of basic supplies and medical care. The lack of fuel has crippled hospitals, water systems, bakeries and relief operations in the strip, and the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) warned on Sunday that the aid convoy system in Gaza “is geared to fail” if Israel continues to ban fuel. Amid the threat of vital infrastructure collapsing without fuel, thousands of desperate Palestinians broke into the UNRWA’s warehouses for supplies on Saturday. The enclave has gone without any fuel deliveries for almost three weeks since the Israeli government ordered a “complete siege” on October 9 and halted food, fuel, water and electricity supplies after Hamas’ attack left more than 1,400 Israelis dead. Nearly all fuel has been exhausted and UN officials are warning that hospitals are on the brink of collapse without the ability to run backup generators to treat people. https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-10-30-23/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Taxi said: Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, which was created before Israel existed. Hamas was officially created in 1987. The First Intifada also began in 1987. Hamas' first military strike was in 1989, when they captured and killed two Israeli soldiers. Israel immediately outlawed Hamas, arrested everyone they could affiliated with Hamas, and began extensive military operations against Hamas. The Muslim Brotherhood had a policy of not taking military action against Israel. Israel never did anything to assist the Muslim Brotherhood, but also did not oppose them either. Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015. According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 minute ago, moosehead said: You have internet. Google is your buddy. Do your own research. Start in 2014. and then keep looking... For its part, Israel faces charges that it potentially breached international law in multiple areas of the conduct of its war, including the targeting of residential homes with precision, the excessive use of artillery in civilian areas, and the loosening of troops’ rules of engagement such as the use of the Hannibal Protocol in Rafah. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/22/un-accuses-israel-and-hamas-of-possible-war-crimes-during-2014-gaza-war You said people "here". Like in this thread. Anyways, your posts are all over the map, so don't bother replying... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: You said people "here". Like in this thread. Anyways, your posts are all over the map, so don't bother replying... Sorry but i tend to not bother reading your posts. What are you on about ? I want peace in the region and no more killing. Not really sure what you stand for ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Just now, moosehead said: Sorry but i tend to not bother reading your posts. What are you on about ? I want peace in the region and no more killing. Not really sure what you stand for ? Trust me, the feeling is mutual... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Trust me, the feeling is mutual... Awesome. You still did not state how you feel about the killing of innocent palestinian civilians though. Edited October 30, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.