Hamas attacking Israel

[moosehead]

 

Today I received a voice note from Dr Marwan Abusada, a senior surgeon at Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, describing the situation there as "horrifying".

 

"We are receiving many casualties each half an hour, each minute... Our hospital is overwhelmed now with the huge number of injured patients. There is no space for more people to be admitted to our hospital. We have more than 800 injured people now here," he said.

 

Videos shared with me by Dr Abusada show patients, including children, on beds and lying on the floor.

 

"Gaza is without electricity, without water, without fuel, without food, without sanitation. The situation is very bad," he said in his voice note.

He added that, in addition to patients, thousands of people were seeking shelter at the hospital after fleeing from their homes. "They are occupying each square metre of the hospital," he said.

 

"This is a bad, horrific situation. You can’t imagine... it is catastrophic and disastrous."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67258466

[Taxi]

40 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.

According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

This article doesn't say what you think it says. 

 

It's an article about how Israel should have taken a harder line against Hamas and the Gaza Strip:

 

Quote

Additionally, since 2014, Netanyahu-led governments have practically turned a blind eye to the incendiary balloons and rocket fire from Gaza.

 

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Again my dude.  Stop that left v right nonsense. 

 

So you think I'm making up political extremism? of course the messaging is out there, you know this is true. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

 

The world is not black and white but shades of grey.

 

Sure, but at some point the adults have to make a decision. So grey gives way to something concrete. Discussion over how grey it all is doesn't lead us to any kind of solution, imo.

 

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

  That partisanship and suggesting that one side is this or one side is that based on political spectrums is no different than saying this white guy should, or that black person shouldn't because [insert skin colour for justification]

 

While there is NO COMPARISON in conflating racial background with political spectrums, I am suggesting they achieve the same result based on personal bias.

 

of course bias is a big part of this. I mentioned Al Jazeera above. I go to that source precisely because it is biased to an Arab pov. Doesn't mean I take it as gospel, just one view. 

 

 

 

[moosehead]

3 minutes ago, Taxi said:

This article doesn't say what you think it says. 

 

It's an article about how Israel should have taken a harder line against Hamas and the Gaza Strip:

 

 

 

Or engaged more with moderate political palestinian groups.......  

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

I dunno.

Educate, integrate palestinians more readily.  Show them that there is options as opposed to sitting under the thumb of a terrorist group.  then have them do the leg work in taking their country back and earning it instead of just being a whole mess of collateral damage between the two based on vengeance and ideological driven violence thus giving them the pride and history to actually control their own destinies based on their own actions by proving they want to be free and work towards a common good?

 

I'm not sure why they don't look at the PA for a more peaceful alternative? 

 

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Or....blockades and retaliatory bombing.  

 

inevitable. Israel has no good choices here. 

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Lemon Face said:

Israel created hamas.Without hamas there is no Israel.

 

sorry, what?

1 hour ago, moosehead said:

 

I am pro human  Just want to see the elimination of suffering in the region.

Israel will never kill / murder its way to peace. Same goes for Hamas.

 

I do not support killing.  The murder of innocent children and women needs to stop now. 

 

Sure, why doesn't Hamas do that then? 

[Alflives]

Why does Hamas refer to the people they took on October 7 as prisoners? Are they saying those people are Prisoners of War? 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Alflives

[bishopshodan]

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

funny, its from two left Spanish EU members. I wonder how they view Catalonia? 

 

Still not clear on the map tho, and what its really suggesting. That Palestine was a functioning country in 1946? or ?

 

Was out for a while.

Taxi posted a good explination that cleared some things up for me.

 

That article referenced annexation of areas of the West Bank. This happens right? Isn't that what the issue with settlers all about?

I have also read that Bibi wanted to prop up Hamas throughout the years, so that the establishment of a proper Palestinian state would be unlikely.

 

Am I right? 

 

Also, side note....how did Oct 7th happen? Is there any more info on how in hell that many Hamas terrorists were able to breach the defenses in so many ways? after getting the heads up that it was coming? 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Was out for a while.

Taxi posted a good explination that cleared some things up for me.

 

That article referenced annexation of areas of the West Bank. This happens right? Isn't that what the issue with settlers all about?

 

it does, and I think many Israelis are against that. 

 

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

I have also read that Bibi wanted to prop up Hamas throughout the years, so that the establishment of a proper Palestinian state would be unlikely.

 

Am I right? 

 

this I don't know. I've seen that spin but I'm not experienced enough to answer this one. 

 

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Also, side note....how did Oct 7th happen? Is there any more info on how in hell that many Hamas terrorists were able to breach the defenses in so many ways? after getting the heads up that it was coming? 

 

I think this is the question a lot of Israelis are asking too.

 

I wonder how big the Israeli Diaspora is that can vote in elections? maybe votes from outside of Israel can help get rid if Bibi?

 

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Was out for a while.

Taxi posted a good explination that cleared some things up for me.

 

That article referenced annexation of areas of the West Bank. This happens right? Isn't that what the issue with settlers all about?

I have also read that Bibi wanted to prop up Hamas throughout the years, so that the establishment of a proper Palestinian state would be unlikely.

 

Am I right? 

 

Also, side note....how did Oct 7th happen? Is there any more info on how in hell that many Hamas terrorists were able to breach the defenses in so many ways? after getting the heads up that it was coming? 

I think someone posted earlier that Israel has a lot of people from Gaza who come to work. Some of those who came to work were spying and supplied detailed information to Hamas. 

[moosehead]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I think someone posted earlier that Israel has a lot of people from Gaza who come to work. Some of those who came to work were spying and supplied detailed information to Hamas. 

 

There are many many palestinians that live in Israel .   They probably knew the land quite well as it USED TO BE THEIR PALESTINIAN Land before they were evicted by Settlers......   occupation.....

 

Gaza tunnels were built to get around the blockade.... these tunnels found a new purpose though....

 

The conflict is a direct result of extreme leadership on both sides.   

Edited October 30, 2023 by moosehead

[moosehead]

11 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

it does, and I think many Israelis are against that. 

 

 

this I don't know. I've seen that spin but I'm not experienced enough to answer this one. 

 

 

I think this is the question a lot of Israelis are asking too.

 

I wonder how big the Israeli Diaspora is that can vote in elections? maybe votes from outside of Israel can help get rid if Bibi?

 

 

 

Despite what Trump may think, U.S. Jews can't vote in Israel's elections. But if they could, the political chasm between them and most Israelis - from peace to pluralism to Jewish nationalism - would be laid bare for all to see

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/elections/2019-04-08/ty-article-opinion/.premium/netanyahu-gantz-who-would-american-jews-vote-for-in-israels

[Playoff Beered]

1 hour ago, Lemon Face said:

Israel created hamas.Without hamas there is no Israel.

 

You can't even type out the Hamas propaganda the right way.

 

1 hour ago, moosehead said:

 Gaza's vital services are affected when fuel runs out

 

Fuel is a lifeline for more than 2 million people in Gaza who, three weeks into the siege, are suffering from dire shortages of basic supplies and medical care. The lack of fuel has crippled hospitals, water systems, bakeries and relief operations in the strip, and the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) warned on Sunday that the aid convoy system in Gaza “is geared to fail” if Israel continues to ban fuel.

Amid the threat of vital infrastructure collapsing without fuel, thousands of desperate Palestinians broke into the UNRWA’s warehouses for supplies on Saturday.

The enclave has gone without any fuel deliveries for almost three weeks since the Israeli government ordered a “complete siege” on October 9 and halted food, fuel, water and electricity supplies after Hamas’ attack left more than 1,400 Israelis dead.

Nearly all fuel has been exhausted and UN officials are warning that hospitals are on the brink of collapse without the ability to run backup generators to treat people.

 

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-10-30-23/index.html

 

Fuel that Hamas stole for their rockets.

The Russians words for what you're doing is "being a useful idiot."

Edited October 30, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, moosehead said:

 

 

Despite what Trump may think, U.S. Jews can't vote in Israel's elections. But if they could, the political chasm between them and most Israelis - from peace to pluralism to Jewish nationalism - would be laid bare for all to see

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/elections/2019-04-08/ty-article-opinion/.premium/netanyahu-gantz-who-would-american-jews-vote-for-in-israels

 

I'm more curious how many people like @RomanPerthere are that could vote. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, moosehead said:

 

There are many many palestinians that live in Israel .   They probably knew the land quite well as it USED TO BE THEIR PALESTINIAN Land before they were evicted by Settlers......   occupation.....

 

Gaza tunnels were built to get around the blockade.... these tunnels found a new purpose though....

 

The conflict is a direct result of extreme leadership on both sides.   

People can do (have done and will continue to do) really evil things to one another. 
 

[Playoff Beered]

10 minutes ago, moosehead said:

Despite what Trump may think, U.S. Jews can't vote in Israel's elections. But if they could, the political chasm between them and most Israelis - from peace to pluralism to Jewish nationalism - would be laid bare for all to see

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/elections/2019-04-08/ty-article-opinion/.premium/netanyahu-gantz-who-would-american-jews-vote-for-in-israels

 

You don't even understand the difference between jewish and Israeli.

[RomanPer]

9 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

You don't even understand the difference between jewish and Israeli.

Lol. I know plenty of North American Jews that are as hawkish as Netanyahu  

[bolt]

https://babylonbee.com/news/i-wouldnt-have-gone-along-with-the-nazis-in-1939-says-college-student-at-kill-the-jews-rally

[moosehead]

Just now, RomanPer said:

Lol. I know plenty of North American Jews that are as hawkish as Netanyahu  

 

The Israel Police began investigating Netanyahu in December 2016 and subsequently recommended indictments against him. On 21 November 2019, Netanyahu was officially indicted for breach of trust, accepting bribes, and fraud, leading him to legally relinquish his ministry portfolios other than prime minister.

[moosehead]

Just now, bolt said:

https://babylonbee.com/news/i-wouldnt-have-gone-along-with-the-nazis-in-1939-says-college-student-at-kill-the-jews-rally

 

What is the point of this... you are only spreading hate..  One crazy persons view is hardly news...

[Taxi]

5 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

What is the point of this... you are only spreading hate..  One crazy persons view is hardly news...

It's also not a news source. It's from a satire news website. 

 

I do think you should maybe look at your own posts though. You consistently take random out of context quotes as part of your own arguments for what all Jews and/or Israelis are thinking.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Taxi

[moosehead]

30 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'm more curious how many people like @RomanPerthere are that could vote. 

 

I think most american jewish people vote democrat historically ......  but maybe now many are moving to trump..

 

Still i think most americans support a 2 state solution so would be against Likud.....

[moosehead]

12 minutes ago, Taxi said:

It's also not a news source. It's from a satire news website. 

 

I do think you should maybe look at your own posts though. You consistently take random out of context quotes as part of your own arguments for what all Jews and/or Israelis are thinking.

 

You should look at your own posts.  You post very one sided information consistently here. 

 

This conflict is a  direct result of extremism on both sides    

 

JerusalemCNN — 

 

Israel’s longest-serving prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, looks set to storm his way back into power, with partial election results suggesting he and his allies have won a clear majority of seats in the Knesset.

 

Those allies include the far-right Religious Zionism/Jewish Power bloc, which appears to have more than doubled the number of seats it holds – and which could make the next government the most right-wing in Israel’s history.

 

The other two probable Netanyahu coalition partners are ultra-Orthodox party United Torah Judaism and religious Sephardi party Shas, which have long histories of being in government. Both have traditionally sought support for their own communities and worked to keep control of Israel’s religious establishment.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/02/middleeast/netanyahu-allies-intl/inde

Edited October 30, 2023 by moosehead

[StrayDog]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

 

2 hours ago, moosehead said:

 

Yes, peace for the region. Unlike those here that support the murder of women and children in Gaza. 

 

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Umm, you wanna walk this statement back?  Who exactly in here supports the murder of women and children in Gaza?  I want actual proof, with posts showing these words.  if you can't find any then you need to apologize to every poster in this thread.  I'm not going to let you continue with your bs claims...

 

I've only been lurking in this thread for the most part, but I would also appreciate facts to back up the bolded statement. That is one hell of an accusation....

 

1 hour ago, moosehead said:

 

You have internet. Google is your buddy.   Do your own research. Start in 2014. and then keep looking...

 

For its part, Israel faces charges that it potentially breached international law in multiple areas of the conduct of its war, including the targeting of residential homes with precision, the excessive use of artillery in civilian areas, and the loosening of troops’ rules of engagement such as the use of the Hannibal Protocol in Rafah.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/22/un-accuses-israel-and-hamas-of-possible-war-crimes-during-2014-gaza-war

 

Especially when you followed up with this, which does not in any way answer EP's request.

 

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

You said people "here".  Like in this thread.  Anyways, your posts are all over the map, so don't bother replying...

 

1 hour ago, moosehead said:

 

Sorry but i tend to not bother reading your posts.    What are you on about ?

 

I want peace in the region and no more killing.  Not really sure what you stand for ?

 

And then doubled down by saying you don't even read his posts. Why are you bothering to answer someone without reading their post?  It makes any other statement you put out suspect, because it means you're not reading anything and you're just throwing out your own propaganda. It makes me think you have an agenda other than peace....

I realize now you'll likely lump me in as an Islamophobe because I questioned your answers, but I really would like the facts that EP asked for.

 

[moosehead]

4 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

I understand you're hateful, it's there for everyone to see. Your occasional lip service of "I want peace for all" is not fooling me one bit.  

 

All through this thread i have blamed Hamas for their horrific acts. Unacceptable acts.  Acts that will result in the perpetrators being held accountable and punished. 

 

The only difference though between you and me... is that i also hold Israel responsible for the horrific things they do as well. You give Israel a free pass for some strange reason.