Ribs Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 26 minutes ago, RomanPer said: @Sharpshooter looks like a fresh target practice here. Big gun took care of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 I don't think it's fair to say most people "support" Israel's actions. It's more a question of seeing the removal of Hamas is necessary from an Israeli point of view. If it was possible to remove Hamas without harming a single innocent Palestinian, everyone here would take that option. Unfortunately, Hamas has themselves so imbedded in the Gazan population, it's impossible to attack them without some form of collateral damage. Should Israel be bargaining with them, instead of attacking? There are videos of Hamas members with the naked corpse of 22 year old woman cheering while onlookers continue to beat her lifeless body with sticks. How do you bargain after that? How does a government sell Hamas negotiations to their own public? 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) Hamas: Government or Terrorist Organization? https://www.npr.org/2006/12/06/6583080/hamas-government-or-terrorist-organization?ref=upstract.com Click the link on the page that says Hear the Full Debate. Edited October 30, 2023 by Playoff Beered 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 I mean, there’s a big red friggin box on the top of every page. It’s not just for decoration. This thread will be Moderated. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) I keep thinking about motivation. Why Hamas is existing within the Palestinian population. Why do the people tolerate them. I have read enough to start to think that Netanyahu is not good for his people either, that he might have incresed the posibility of the awful acts that reached a recent crescendo on Oct7. Are the settlements used by Hamas as something that would keep the Palastinians angry? Is that the motivation? am I way of base to think that Hamas preaches to the people of Palistine that the Israelis are set on removing Palastinans completely? Is there any discussion from Isreal of pulling out completely from the settlements one day? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-repeals-2005-act-that-removed-west-bank-settlements 'JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli lawmakers on Tuesday repealed a 2005 act that saw four Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank dismantled at the same time as Israeli forces withdrew from the Gaza Strip. The development could pave the way for an official return to the abandoned West Bank areas in another setback to Palestinian hopes for statehood. It was the latest move by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s far-right government, which is dominated by settler leaders and allies, to promote settlement activity in the territory. The international community, including Israel’s closest ally, the United States, considers settlements illegal and opposes construction on occupied territories claimed by the Palestinians for a future independent state.' Edited October 30, 2023 by bishopshodan 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribs Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Thread cleaned - please don't attack each other. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 5 hours ago, Coconuts said: https://www.savethechildren.net/news/gaza-3195-children-killed-three-weeks-surpasses-annual-number-children-killed-conflict-zones#:~:text=Children are always the first,they have no part in. This is heartbreaking. People arguing about borders and other BS. Comparing conflicts. Brother we are one crazy species. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 8 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I keep thinking about motivation. Why Hamas is existing within the Palestinian population. Why do the people tolerate them. I have read enough to start to think that Netanyahu is not good for his people either, that he might have incresed the posibility of the awful acts that reached a recent crescendo on Oct7. Are the settlements as something that would keep the Palastinians angry? Is that the motivation? am I way of base to think that Hamas preaches to the people of Palistine that the Israelis are set on removing them completely? Is there any discussion from Isreal of pulling out completely from the settlements one day? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-repeals-2005-act-that-removed-west-bank-settlements 'JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli lawmakers on Tuesday repealed a 2005 act that saw four Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank dismantled at the same time as Israeli forces withdrew from the Gaza Strip. The development could pave the way for an official return to the abandoned West Bank areas in another setback to Palestinian hopes for statehood. It was the latest move by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s far-right government, which is dominated by settler leaders and allies, to promote settlement activity in the territory. The international community, including Israel’s closest ally, the United States, considers settlements illegal and opposes construction on occupied territories claimed by the Palestinians for a future independent state.' The only reason for Hamas to attack is because Israel exists. Israel can stop settlements, let all the refugees back into Israel - and Hamas would still continue its terror. Their goal is singular - kill all the Jews and not just in Israel but everywhere else. 1 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 15 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I keep thinking about motivation. Why Hamas is existing within the Palestinian population. Why do the people tolerate them. I have read enough to start to think that Netanyahu is not good for his people either, that he might have incresed the posibility of the awful acts that reached a recent crescendo on Oct7. Are the settlements used by Hamas as something that would keep the Palastinians angry? Is that the motivation? am I way of base to think that Hamas preaches to the people of Palistine that the Israelis are set on removing Palastinans completely? Is there any discussion from Isreal of pulling out completely from the settlements one day? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-repeals-2005-act-that-removed-west-bank-settlements 'JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli lawmakers on Tuesday repealed a 2005 act that saw four Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank dismantled at the same time as Israeli forces withdrew from the Gaza Strip. The development could pave the way for an official return to the abandoned West Bank areas in another setback to Palestinian hopes for statehood. It was the latest move by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s far-right government, which is dominated by settler leaders and allies, to promote settlement activity in the territory. The international community, including Israel’s closest ally, the United States, considers settlements illegal and opposes construction on occupied territories claimed by the Palestinians for a future independent state.' There are a variety of settlements. Technically anything built around Jerusalem is considered a settlement. Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority since the 1830s. The Palestinians are also building new neighbourhoods around Jerusalem. The Muslim population in Jerusalem has grown from about 30k in 1944 to over 350k now. During the same time the Jewish population grew from 97,000 to about 580,000. Those settlements will never be evacuated. The Israelis have offered to withdraw many of their settlements in the past, with offers of a complete withdrawal from 97% and 95% of the West Bank, with compensation of other lands inside Israel. Netanyahu is not a dove. He is decidedly a war hawk. His brother died fighting in the IDF. He himself was shot. He's not going to take an easy stance. His presence is part of the cycle of violence though. As he gets elected into power (largely by the Mizrahi population) as Israelis feel they need him to protect them. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 4 hours ago, Lemon Face said: I dont keep any sides.I dont hate.Not even smart.I am only one of few survivors of Srebrenica. I am really sorry to hear this. So you were one of the members of the death march ? That must have been horrific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guntrix Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 27 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I keep thinking about motivation. Why Hamas is existing within the Palestinian population. Why do the people tolerate them. I have read enough to start to think that Netanyahu is not good for his people either, that he might have incresed the posibility of the awful acts that reached a recent crescendo on Oct7. Are the settlements used by Hamas as something that would keep the Palastinians angry? Is that the motivation? am I way of base to think that Hamas preaches to the people of Palistine that the Israelis are set on removing Palastinans completely? Is there any discussion from Isreal of pulling out completely from the settlements one day? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-repeals-2005-act-that-removed-west-bank-settlements 'JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli lawmakers on Tuesday repealed a 2005 act that saw four Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank dismantled at the same time as Israeli forces withdrew from the Gaza Strip. The development could pave the way for an official return to the abandoned West Bank areas in another setback to Palestinian hopes for statehood. It was the latest move by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s far-right government, which is dominated by settler leaders and allies, to promote settlement activity in the territory. The international community, including Israel’s closest ally, the United States, considers settlements illegal and opposes construction on occupied territories claimed by the Palestinians for a future independent state.' All some people have ever known is Gaza, also known as the world's largest open-air prison. Heck, some people will be born, will live, and will die in Gaza. I think this desperation is imperative to understanding Hamas and why much of its presence is situated there. Living in Gaza entails, among many other things, limited daily water supply; limited rations and supplies that depend on what Israel allows into Gaza; depending on what your routine is, having to go through Israeli checkpoints on a regular basis to get to where you need to go; being submitted to continual illegal Israeli expansion into your lands through settlements; having a health and educational system that is highly-dependent on UNRWA (which in turn is historically underfunded) and religious congregations, great difficulty in leaving to make a better life for yourself, etc. You simply don't have much of a present or future. At some point, after living the entirety of your life on your knees, desperation sets in. And sometimes that desperation translates into support for extremist groups. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Face Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 13 minutes ago, Ilunga said: I am really sorry to hear this. So you were one of the members of the death march ? That must have been horrific. Yes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, Guntrix said: All some people have ever known is Gaza, also known as the world's largest open-air prison. Heck, some people will be born, will live, and will die in Gaza. I think this desperation is imperative to understanding Hamas and why much of its presence is situated there. Living in Gaza entails, among many other things, limited daily water supply; limited rations and supplies that depend on what Israel allows into Gaza; depending on what your routine is, having to go through Israeli checkpoints on a regular basis to get to where you need to go; being submitted to continual illegal Israeli expansion into your lands through settlements; having a health and educational system that is highly-dependent on UNRWA (which in turn is historically underfunded) and religious congregations, great difficulty in leaving to make a better life for yourself, etc. You simply don't have much of a present or future. At some point, after living the entirety of your life on your knees, desperation sets in. And sometimes that desperation translates into support for extremist groups. Please tell me more about Israeli settlements in Gaza… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guntrix Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, RomanPer said: Please tell me more about Israeli settlements in Gaza… I could talk about the famous 21 but I don't think either of us want to go down that rabbit hole with how trigger-happy the mods are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 50 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I keep thinking about motivation. Why Hamas is existing within the Palestinian population. Why do the people tolerate them. I have read enough to start to think that Netanyahu is not good for his people either, that he might have incresed the posibility of the awful acts that reached a recent crescendo on Oct7. Are the settlements used by Hamas as something that would keep the Palastinians angry? Is that the motivation? am I way of base to think that Hamas preaches to the people of Palistine that the Israelis are set on removing Palastinans completely? Is there any discussion from Isreal of pulling out completely from the settlements one day? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-repeals-2005-act-that-removed-west-bank-settlements 'JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli lawmakers on Tuesday repealed a 2005 act that saw four Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank dismantled at the same time as Israeli forces withdrew from the Gaza Strip. The development could pave the way for an official return to the abandoned West Bank areas in another setback to Palestinian hopes for statehood. It was the latest move by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s far-right government, which is dominated by settler leaders and allies, to promote settlement activity in the territory. The international community, including Israel’s closest ally, the United States, considers settlements illegal and opposes construction on occupied territories claimed by the Palestinians for a future independent state.' You could ask this question about a lot of the region. Why put up with having to ask a male relatives permission for things? Why would a man even want that? Same with north america. Why live in a state that takes away your right to choose? People put up with all kinds of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Sharpshooter said: I mean, there’s a big red friggin box on the top of every page. It’s not just for decoration. This thread will be Moderated. 36 minutes ago, Ribs said: Thread cleaned - please don't attack each other. It's not a secret that I'm not a fan of aggressive moderation, but for the love of God, BIG RED WARNING BOX + 2-3 days straight of friendly warnings to not be d-bags to other posters is a helluva lot more patience than one could or should ask for or expect. It's like those videos on YouTube of people turning a simple easy to deal with vehicle violation pull-over into multiple felony charges. You can't help but facepalm when you see it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 hours ago, moosehead said: All through this thread i have blamed Hamas for their horrific acts. Unacceptable acts. Acts that will result in the perpetrators being held accountable and punished. The only difference though between you and me... is that i also hold Israel responsible for the horrific things they do as well. You give Israel a free pass for some strange reason. Who got kicked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 8 minutes ago, RomanPer said: Please tell me more about Israeli settlements in Gaza… Didn't every single Jew leave Gaza in 2005 and even take the bones of all of the dead people with them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Who got kicked? Slick move.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Just now, Sabrefan1 said: Slick move.... I thought I was asking you picked the wrong post I'm on my phone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: I thought I was asking you picked the wrong post I'm on my phone Freudian slip? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Didn't every single Jew leave Gaza in 2005 and even take the bones of all of the dead people with them? Yes, Israelis in Gaza. each recieved 200,000 to 300,000 dollars per family by the Israel government when moved out. Guess how much Palestinians families got / get when they get their lands seized by Israeli government ... ? 100,000 hectares seized. 50,000 Palestiinian homes demolished. For the last 50 years, Israel has been forcing thousands of Palestinians off their land, occupying and illegally using it to create settlements that exclusively house Jewish Israeli settlers. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/ Edited October 31, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 23 minutes ago, Guntrix said: I could talk about the famous 21 but I don't think either of us want to go down that rabbit hole with how trigger-happy the mods are. So what is this “famous 21? Are you suggesting there are 21 Israeli settlements within Gaza? If you’re going to post something at least explain it. Or provide a link to something that explains it. I’m pretty sure the moderators just want us to not be nasty to one another. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Ilunga said: This is heartbreaking. People arguing about borders and other BS. Comparing conflicts. Brother we are one crazy species. Yup, I don't have the patience or energy to go around in circles but the body count itself is ghastly 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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