Provost Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Alflives said: Are you suggesting the IDF is targeting children? Yes, absolutely 100% they are. They know somewhere is filled with children and they bomb it, that is targeting children. Plain, simple, and undeniable. Saying, “Hey the kids are just in the way” is pure nonsense talking point excuses. If I see a crowd of school kids and aim my car to drive through them to get to a teacher I don’t like… I am targeting those kids. When it happens thousands of times, you don’t get to claim it is an accident. Edited October 31, 2023 by Provost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 54 minutes ago, Coconuts said: More than likely @Elias Pettersson is right and there will simply never be a lasting peace in that region Too many factions, countries with hands in the pie, religions/faiths/ect involved, and so on Whatever will happen will happen, but it wouldn't shock me if this thread is still going in some way, shape, or form in two or three years Maybe that's a tad cynical but at the end of the day it's the average civilians who pay the highest price during conflicts such as this one Well, you're not the only cynical one in this thread. I've been resigned to Israel carrying out these actions from the start, I see no alternative unfortunately. Maybe I've seen this show too many times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, Provost said: Yes, absolutely 100% they are. They know somewhere is filled with children and they bomb it, that is targeting children. Plain, simple, and undeniable. Saying, “Hey the kids are just in the way” is pure nonsense talking points. Who exactly said, “hey the kids are just in the way”? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, RomanPer said: "the orders are not to use the weapon unless there's absolutely clear and immediate danger to soldier's life". Oh , like an 8 yr old throwing a stone. You need to look at the situation from both sides and stop justifying occupation / oppression and genocide. IDF murder children and innocent civilians on a regular basis. What about... the solitary confinement of Ahmad Manasra, imprisoned as a 13-year-old in 2015 and held in solitary confinement since November 2021, amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/ Edited October 31, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Just now, Alflives said: Who exactly said, “hey the kids are just in the way”? Every IDF spokesperson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Provost said: Every IDF spokesperson. Since you used quotation marks I’m assuming that’s an exact quote. Can you link the source? Or is this an inference on your part? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, Provost said: Every IDF spokesperson. IDF murdered this kid from 150 metres away...... I would be ashamed of any relative of mine that joined an organization that kills children.... Ramallah, October 9, 2023—Israeli forces shot and killed four Palestinian boys in separate incidents over the past 24 hours in the occupied West Bank. Yousef Nader Suleiman Idris, 16, was shot with live ammunition by Israeli forces around 7 p.m. on October 8 during confrontations between Israeli forces and Palestinian youth in the occupied Palestinian city of Hebron, according to documentation collected by Defense for Children International - Palestine. Yousef was around 150 meters (492 feet) away from Israeli soldiers in the Wadi al-Nasara area near the illegal Jewish-only settlement of Kiryat Arba when Israeli forces fired heavily at a group of stone-throwing Palestinian youth https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_shoot_and_kill_four_palestinian_boys_in_west_bank#:~:text=Israeli forces shot and killed,according to documentation collected by 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Israeli forces and settlers have shot and killed at least 44 Palestinian children and killed one Palestinian child with a targeted drone strike in the occupied West Bank. Under international law, intentional lethal force is only justified in circumstances where a direct threat to life or of serious injury is present. However, investigations and evidence collected by DCIP regularly suggest that Israeli forces use lethal force against Palestinian children in circumstances that may amount to extrajudicial or wilful killings. https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_shoot_and_kill_four_palestinian_boys_in_west_bank#:~:text=Israeli forces shot and killed,according to documentation collected by 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, RomanPer said:In his words, "the orders are not to use the weapon unless there's absolutely clear and immediate danger to soldier's life". Ya, so that just isn’t true. The terms of engagement are that anything me who is there is effectively a combatant. Nothing has changed since the last time this happened in 2014. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/04/in-their-own-words-israeli-troops-break-ranks-on-gaza-campaign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) Very disturbing / disgusting..... Since 2000, Israeli forces and settlers have killed more than 2,300 Palestinian children as of October 9, 2023, according to documentation collected by DCIP. Since 2000, Israeli forces and settlers have killed more than 2,300 Palestinian children as of October 9, 2023, according to documentation collected by DCIP. Edited October 31, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, moosehead said: Very disturbing / disgusting..... Since 2000, Israeli forces and settlers have killed more than 2,300 Palestinian children as of October 9, 2023, according to documentation collected by DCIP. Since 2000, Israeli forces and settlers have killed more than 2,300 Palestinian children as of October 9, 2023, according to documentation collected by DCIP. Edited October 31, 2023 by Provost 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, Provost said: Suddenly rockets, guerilla warfare and terrorism don't exist. What a great day for the planet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Suddenly rockets, guerilla warfare and terrorism don't exist. What a great day for the planet. Terrorists absolutely exist and will be dealt with. Killing of innocent women and children.... well... that is nothing i could never condone under any circumstance. I have morals and a conscience. Edited November 1, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 1 hour ago, RomanPer said: Don't say "no one saying". You are not saying it, but there are plenty around the world and in this thread who believe IDF targets civilians in general and kids specifically. Which couldn't be further from the truth. I served in IDF and the orders were always extremely clear on the rules of engagement. I also know for a fact that Israel constantly changing the rules of engagement for the IDF soldiers and in recent years it became even harder to justify the usage of weapons. My nephew completed his mandatory service last November in Givati (one of the two main brigades in Israel, along with Golani). His service was a rotation every 2 months between the North (Golan Heights), Center (Shkhem/Nablus) and South (Gaza border). In his words, "the orders are not to use the weapon unless there's absolutely clear and immediate danger to soldier's life". There are known cases when Israeli courts charged and convicted IDF military personal for deliberately targeting Palestinian civilians even in cases where such action were an impulse reaction to danger. Think of a cop in North America shooting a suspect who reaches in his pocket, only to find out later that he was reaching for a document. I'm not saying such action are justified, and number of such cases in Israeli courts is proof that there's no deliberate targeting of civilians on behalf of IDF. Obviously, now that the full fledged war broke up, the rules of engagement are changing. Those rules the IDF had in your examples were good and you know, on the moral high ground, but to see the rules of engagement to be this fierce now makes it hard to sympathize with Israel. Because no sane person wants to see thousands of children killed. So it's a bad look for Israel when their bombs are destroying children, even wether the bombs are meant for Hamas or not. That's why there's a moral outrage and protests happening in some big cities around the world. It seems the people in the west are divided with their intreprations, but the leaders in the West are supporting and backing Israel at this time by reiterating that IDF is NOT targeting children. In my opinion I think Israel bears the most weight out of everyone for those children because ultimately Netanyahu is the one who signed off on those bombs. It's a tough price to pay for everyone, and these children get the shitty end of the stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) Yes, IDF are amazing soldiers.. especially skilled at killing children... Out of every ten people listed as killed by the Health Ministry, four were children. That proportion of child deaths exceeds all other recent armed conflicts, including Russia's 2022 invasion of Ukraine. https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-gaza-hamas-civilian-casualties-children-deaths-airstrikes-palestinian-2023-10 Yoav Gallant, Israel's Minister of Defense, said he was removing "all restraints" from Israel's response and characterized his targets as "human animals." Edited November 1, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 21 minutes ago, moosehead said: Terrorists absolutely exist and will be dealt with. Killing of innocent women and children.... well... that is nothing i could never condone under any circumstance. I have morals and a conscience. Good for you, you live in a world of absolutes. I wonder how you gained that privilege? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Alflives said: You have some interesting views. The Arab nations are secretly cozy with Israel? And after this current war Gaza will be turned into a theme park and waterfront homes where Muslims will come and play? Where are you getting these ideas from? " Take a look at your promised land Your deed is that gun in your hand Mount Zion's a minefield The west bank The Gaza strip Soon to be parking lots For American tourists And fascist cops " Chris Hannah / Jord Samolesky A couple of good Winnipeg boys. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Good for you, you live in a world of absolutes. I wonder how you gained that privilege? Better than living in a world void of conscience / morals / ethics. I was born in the right place i guess or maybe my parents raised me to become a decent person. I think humans have evolved enough to negotiate peaceful solutions. No need to murder each others children .... Edited November 1, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 Just now, moosehead said: Better than living in a world void of conscience / morals / ethics. I was born in the right place i guess or maybe my parents raised me to a decent person. Quite the leap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 25 minutes ago, Provost said: Hamas is “a bunch of kids”? So it was just a bunch of kids who committed the crimes on October 7? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 But China has made it clear it continues to support the Palestinians. In their remarks on the latest conflict, Chinese officials and even President Xi Jinping have stressed the need for an independent Palestinian state. One side effect is an uptick in antisemitism online, fanned by nationalist bloggers. Some on Chinese social media have equated Israel's actions to Nazism by accusing them of carrying out a genocide on Palestinians, prompting a rebuke from the German embassy in Beijing. The stabbing of a family member of an Israeli embassy employee in Beijing has also added to the unease. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-67237146 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Ilunga said: " Take a look at your promised land Your deed is that gun in your hand Mount Zion's a minefield The west bank The Gaza strip Soon to be parking lots For American tourists And fascist cops " Chris Hannah / Jord Samolesky A couple of good Winnipeg boys. Interesting poem. But the poster to which I was responding suggested the Arab nations are secretly supporting Israel and they would be the ones going to the theme parks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Provost Posted November 1, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Good for you, you live in a world of absolutes. I wonder how you gained that privilege? I spent 15 years as a soldier. I don’t live in a world of absolutes. No professional and civilized military wages war by carpet bombing civilian targets to hopefully catch a bad guy amongst the casualties. War crimes aren’t a grey area, there are literally laws about this. Instead of going in a fighting Hamas where they risk getting casualties on their side, they are just indiscriminately killing everyone so it is a parking lot when they roll in. That is a choice and one that anyone who understands how works this even remotely should be condemning. Edited November 1, 2023 by Provost 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckle Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 9 minutes ago, Ilunga said: " Take a look at your promised land Your deed is that gun in your hand Mount Zion's a minefield The west bank The Gaza strip Soon to be parking lots For American tourists And fascist cops " Chris Hannah / Jord Samolesky A couple of good Winnipeg boys. Propagandhi pumping in my veins 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 1 minute ago, moosehead said: But China has made it clear it continues to support the Palestinians. In their remarks on the latest conflict, Chinese officials and even President Xi Jinping have stressed the need for an independent Palestinian state. One side effect is an uptick in antisemitism online, fanned by nationalist bloggers. Some on Chinese social media have equated Israel's actions to Nazism by accusing them of carrying out a genocide on Palestinians, prompting a rebuke from the German embassy in Beijing. The stabbing of a family member of an Israeli embassy employee in Beijing has also added to the unease. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-67237146 I asked before. Here it is again. Would it be a fair solution for the Palestinians to divide the region into two parts and the Israelis get to choose the part they prefer? Or would the Hamas people not agree to any solution where Israel exists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.