Hamas attacking Israel

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

Yeah it's pretty bizarre I seen people just even mention why is a Russian athlete being penalized for this and they were just attacked but meanwhile I don't recall American athletes being banned from things.

 

In my opinion I would then come off is trying to drag Iran into this war. If I ran in Israel end up in a war that will be a very big deal that has the most likely scenario of dragging the United States into that war.

 

To be perfectly honest, that would probably be exactly what Putin would love to see right now.

 

it wouldn't surprise me at all if Putin is involved somehow. I suspect we'll see China finally go after Taiwan sooner than later too, if they see the US as spread too thin. 

 

There's been so many wasted opportunities for peace in Israel, this just seems like an inevitable outcome of that to me. Sucks for everyone in the region. 

[RomanPer]

12 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

You're talking about the Six-Day War in 1967?  The one where an inevitable conflict was nonetheless started by the Israelis in a pre-emptive strike?

 

Read up on your history, man.

 

https://www.scribd.com/document/224419773/The-Outbreak-of-the-Six-Day-War

I know my history and probably better than you. If you know that your enemies are preparing for war to anihilate you and you have tactical advantage - you do strike pre-emptively. As you yourself said, it was “inevitable”.

[RomanPer]

13 minutes ago, moosehead said:

in your imaginary world u can justify occupatiion oppression apartheid however u want 

There’s no apartheid. Have a nice life.

[Gurn]

1- Kill people on the other side

2-  they strike back and kill people on 'your 'side

3- Inflame your people about the bad things the other side just did. Raise more people for your 'cause'

4- kill people on the other side

 

rinse and repeat.

[Ryan Strome]

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

it wouldn't surprise me at all if Putin is involved somehow. I suspect we'll see China finally go after Taiwan sooner than later too, if they see the US as spread too thin. 

 

There's been so many wasted opportunities for peace in Israel, this just seems like an inevitable outcome of that to me. Sucks for everyone in the region. 

You know for years I've wondered why countries like Canada and the Netherlands couldn't put together a significant peacekeeping force and negotiate with both sides and have that force there and convince Israel to stop the occupations. Keep those forces there for 50 years if need be.

3 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

I know my history and probably better than you. If you know that your enemies are preparing for war to anihilate you and you have tactical advantage - you do strike pre-emptively. As you yourself said, it was “inevitable”.

Again, this is exactly what Vladimir Putin said. You two are so similar.

[Inkidu]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

yeah I got raked pretty good for suggesting all Russians weren't evil and some "allies" had some warts. 

 

None of this is simple or fair or right. I can't understand what Hamas leadership is thinking here or how they will gain anything for their people. 

 

 

It's the 50 year anniversary of the yom kippur war (exactly so in some time zones) so it's possibly a last minute inspiration by sick and depraved minds how they might "celebrate." That's all I can think of how it might have happened without warning. 

[Provost]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

This is true. The US Military Industrial Complex seems to not have issues with extending wars throughout generations. 
 

I don’t think the issue in the Middle East is with ideology.  When you have terrorist groups in the region they tend to muddy the waters for everyone else. Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda. 
 

You get rid of the terrorist groups and it’s much easier to get peace in the region.  Problem is like you said alot of Arabs look at those terrorist organizations as freedom fighters. They have been brainwashed to believe this. Which is the main problem IMO. 

Those organizations are their de facto governments.  News shows them as armed terrorists... they don't show that those groups run the hospitals, schools, garbage collection, etc.

Not sure it is brainwashing if you are a Palestinian or Arab to look more favourably on them than the country who's military is enforcing blockades to not allow medicine, food, etc, and regularly kills and kidnaps your family members.  Also, doesn't international law actually indicate they actually are freedom fighters?  Their land is being illegally occupied and the U.N. has agreed repeatedly that this is the case.

I think you can only think of it as brainwashing it you aren't able to see beyond your own brainwashing.

It is weird that in one case the world is supporting Ukraine against Russian occupation and supporting the Ukrainian military and freedom fighters... but in the Israeli occupation, they call Palestinians fighting back terrorists.

I guess Ukrainians look and dress a lot more like us?

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

You know for years I've wondered why countries like Canada and the Netherlands couldn't put together a significant peacekeeping force and negotiate with both sides and have that force there and convince Israel to stop the occupations. Keep those forces there for 50 years if need be.

Again, this is exactly what Vladimir Putin said. You two are so similar.

 

we just didn't have the will for something like that. 

[Miss Korea]

8 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

I know my history and probably better than you. If you know that your enemies are preparing for war to anihilate you and you have tactical advantage - you do strike pre-emptively. As you yourself said, it was “inevitable”.

Where (or from whom) did you study about Arab-Israeli history? 

[Ryan Strome]

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

we just didn't have the will for something like that. 

Well if we don't have the will for that then we better have the stomach for this every couple years.

Just now, Miss Korea said:

Where (or from whom) did you study about Arab-Israeli history? 

You need to go back into the thread. He told us where he gained his experience. He's Jewish and he's been to Tel Aviv a couple times. Try to keep up.

[RomanPer]

4 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

Where (or from whom) did you study about Arab-Israeli history? 

Lol. I am 54 year old Israeli citizen, clown.

[Ryan Strome]

Just now, RomanPer said:

Lol. I am 54 year old Israeli citizen, clown.

So if you are 54 and this is how you respond to people when they ask you legitimate question. I don't think they are the problem I think you are.

[Miss Korea]

5 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

So if you are 54 and this is how you respond to people when they ask you legitimate question. I don't think they are the problem I think you are.

I am in pure disbelief that an Israeli citizen would have a pro-Israel and pro-IDF stance.  Unbelievable.

[RomanPer]

Just now, Miss Korea said:

I am in pure disbelief that an Israeli citizen would have a pro-Israel and pro-IDF stance.  Unbelievable.

I’m glad you are in disbelief. See you never.

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, Miss Korea said:

I am in pure disbelief that an Israeli citizen would have a pro-Israel and pro-IDF stance.  Unbelievable.

The more concerning part is his response to you to call you a clown because you asked a question. I think that says a lot about the person. Also everything is advocating for is what Putin and the Soviet Union advocated for so I do find that bizarre.

Just now, RomanPer said:

I’m glad you are in disbelief. See you never.

This is exactly what I'm talking about Korea

[Ghostsof1915]

 

[Miss Korea]

4 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

The more concerning part is his response to you to call you a clown because you asked a question. I think that says a lot about the person. Also everything is advocating for is what Putin and the Soviet Union advocated for so I do find that bizarre.

This is exactly what I'm talking about Korea

He probably does know more than most of us.  Just a shame that our forum's one insider is an asshole.

[Chicken.]

1 minute ago, Miss Korea said:

He probably does know more than most of us.  Just a shame that our forum's one insider is an asshole.

I would wager he’s just in a very emotional state of mind and its being reflected in his posts. This would hit close to home having recent massacre in one’s own country. Dont blame him.

[Elias Pettersson]

26 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Honest question here because I respect you r views, When you make a statement like that, can you understand why the Arabs view them as freedom fighters? The Israelis took their land occupied It killed them starved them they're basically living under the thumb of Israel and these people are fighting against it. Not very hard to have to brainwash is it?

I have a long term view on the Middle East. I was born and raised a Roman Catholic. Jesus was born in Bethlehem to Jewish parents. All of his friends and disciples were Jewish. 
 

The land that is currently called Israel was occupied by the Jews over 2000 years ago. It is the Holy Land. It is sacred. The Kingdom of Israel was around long before the state of Palestine. As we all know, wars happen and land gets taken and occupied. The land known as Israel has had many occupiers over the last two thousand years. 
 

At the end of the day, the Jewish people are surrounded by Arabs. It is their sole existence to keep their Holy Land. Without it the Jews would be wiped out from the earth. 
 

I understand what has happened since  WW2. The Palestinian people certainly need land of their own to call home. And so do the Jewish people. That’s why there needs to be a two state solution. 
 

This cannot happen however if one side wants to eliminate the other side from the earth. That is the problem with Hamas. 
 

As for the “freedom fighters” statement, I will agree with you 100% that brainwashing may not have been the appropriate term for me to use. I come from the western world so I do have preconceived ideas of what Hamas and Hezbollah and Al Qaeda are all about. And I can freely admit that our media have also brainwashed us to a certain degree. The US does not have clean hands either. They are the only country in history to actually use a nuclear weapon during war. They are as dirty as everyone else to be totally honest with you. 
 

I can understand why the Arab people stand with the terrorists. Like you said they run the countries and supply them with food, shelter and everything else. They are the government.  But at the end of the day they still have the mentality of terrorists. A normal government would not tell the other side that they want them eliminated from the earth. 
 

I still stand by my comment that you can’t negotiate with terrorists, or in this case a terrorist organization that wants to wipe the other side from the earth. 
 

This is why there is never peace in the Middle East. It goes back thousands of years and there has been too much bloodshed to have a peaceful resolution. 

[Junkyard Dog]

1 minute ago, Miss Korea said:

He probably does know more than most of us.  Just a shame that our forum's one insider is an asshole.

I wouldn’t state that he’s an ass. His home just had one of the worst attacks in decades by a terrorist group in Hamas. 
 

Emotion and Tension are maybe at an all-time high. 

[Ryan Strome]

7 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

He probably does know more than most of us.  Just a shame that our forum's one insider is an asshole.

He likely does. However, I would agree 100% with your assessment.

4 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

I would wager he’s just in a very emotional state of mind and its being reflected in his posts. This would hit close to home having recent massacre in one’s own country. Dont blame him.

While this is very admirable and honorable what you said and you probably are right, he has been very rude to anybody that has just tried to say look at the other side. I mean Canadians died in Afghanistan but I was still willing to recognize the other viewpoint without calling everybody derogatory names and belittling people.

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I have a long term view on the Middle East. I was born and raised a Roman Catholic. Jesus was born in Bethlehem to Jewish parents. All of his friends and disciples were Jewish. 
 

The land that is currently called Israel was occupied by the Jews over 2000 years ago. It is the Holy Land. It is sacred. The Kingdom of Israel was around long before the state of Palestine. As we all know, wars happen and land gets taken and occupied. The land known as Israel has had many occupiers over the last two thousand years. 
 

At the end of the day, the Jewish people are surrounded by Arabs. It is their sole existence to keep their Holy Land. Without it the Jews would be wiped out from the earth. 
 

I understand what has happened since  WW2. The Palestinian people certainly need land of their own to call home. And so do the Jewish people. That’s why there needs to be a two state solution. 
 

This cannot happen however if one side wants to eliminate the other side from the earth. That is the problem with Hamas. 
 

As for the “freedom fighters” statement, I will agree with you 100% that brainwashing may not have been the appropriate term for me to use. I come from the western world so I do have preconceived ideas of what Hamas and Hezbollah and Al Qaeda are all about. And I can freely admit that our media have also brainwashed us to a certain degree. The US does not have clean hands either. They are the only country in history to actually use a nuclear weapon during war. They are as dirty as everyone else to be totally honest with you. 
 

I can understand why the Arab people stand with the terrorists. Like you said they run the countries and supply them with food, shelter and everything else. They are the government.  But at the end of the day they still have the mentality of terrorists. A normal government would not tell the other side that they want them eliminated from the earth. 
 

I still stand by my comment that you can’t negotiate with terrorists, or in this case a terrorist organization that wants to wipe the other side from the earth. 
 

This is why there is never peace in the Middle East. It goes back thousands of years and there has been too much bloodshed to have a peaceful resolution. 

Great response. Thank you sir.

[Elias Pettersson]

33 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

You know for years I've wondered why countries like Canada and the Netherlands couldn't put together a significant peacekeeping force and negotiate with both sides and have that force there and convince Israel to stop the occupations. Keep those forces there for 50 years if need be.

Israel has planes and artillery from the US. They also have nukes. I doubt our 4 helicopters would actually scare them.  

[Riddikulus]

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

 

I am seriously claiming that Israel doesn’t kill Arabs just because they are Arabs. Regarding refugees between 1947 and 1949 - there are different accounts from different sides. Our side is convinced that it was Arab leaders who convinced Arab population to leave and let them kill all the Jews and they will return to the “cleansed” land. I am seriously claiming that the numbers of killed on the Palestinian side are grossly inflated because i saw videos of staged “victims” who miraculously stoop up from under white sheets the moment main cameras would stop rolling. I am also seriously  claiming that hamas and others before them use Palestinian civilians as “live shield” for their own atrocities. Forgive me for not taking “facts” posted on Aljazeera as “truth”. Also, read in your own quote - in Arabic the 1967 war is called “setback”. Think again about the name - it was just a setback in their grandiose plan to kill all the Jews. They wanted to kill all the Jews and instead lost land. Think of all that land as “security buffer”.

Your side is convinced of that because they can then continue to believe that they are more righteous and that there is less blood on their hands in this conflict. I remember on the old forum we had a poster come in who suggested the the number of victims of the Holocaust were grossly inflated and a lot of the photos of bodies laying on top of another and mass graves were "staged" to look worse than they were. I rarely ever used the report function on the old forum, but that was one of the few times that I ever did and to the credit of the mods they quickly dispensed of that troll. It was stupid and offensive, as is anyone who makes the claim of "false flag" to deny someone else's tragedy. I am not calling for you to be banned, I sympathize with the pain you are in, seeing what has transpired in the last few days but what you are stating in this post can easily be applied to your side by people who argue in bad faith.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Riddikulus

[Ryan Strome]

3 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I wouldn’t state that he’s an ass. His home just had one of the worst attacks in decades by a terrorist group in Hamas. 
 

Emotion and Tension are maybe at an all-time high. 

Again, this would be accurate but there's no excuses that should be made. It's an online forum. If it'll make you that heated, don't come on. Would he be willing to give somebody the same benefit of the doubt if they lived in, let's say Gaza city and we're commenting in this thread with a different point of view?

[Elias Pettersson]

33 minutes ago, Provost said:

Those organizations are their de facto governments.  News shows them as armed terrorists... they don't show that those groups run the hospitals, schools, garbage collection, etc.

Not sure it is brainwashing if you are a Palestinian or Arab to look more favourably on them than the country who's military is enforcing blockades to not allow medicine, food, etc, and regularly kills and kidnaps your family members.  Also, doesn't international law actually indicate they actually are freedom fighters?  Their land is being illegally occupied and the U.N. has agreed repeatedly that this is the case.

I think you can only think of it as brainwashing it you aren't able to see beyond your own brainwashing.

It is weird that in one case the world is supporting Ukraine against Russian occupation and supporting the Ukrainian military and freedom fighters... but in the Israeli occupation, they call Palestinians fighting back terrorists.

I guess Ukrainians look and dress a lot more like us?

I do agree with this. We as westerners are also brainwashed by our media and the government. No argument there from me.