Hamas attacking Israel

[Canuck Surfer]

9 hours ago, moosehead said:

Ethnic cleansing of Gaza will not fix anything...

Enough bloodshed has been shed. Enough women and children have been killed.

Time now for a cease fire and start sowing the seeds of Peace....

 

 

 

I remain convinced there is substantial indifference to Palestinian death? Not that this is acceptable!

 

It is different than intentionally killing everyone. ie ethnic cleansing. We need to call for Hamas to stop calling for the eradication of all Jews, acting upon it.  We need to stop Israel from killing more Palestinian citizens as they hunt for militant Hamas. At this stage it is war, probably matters not who attacked who first. 

 

10 hours ago, moosehead said:

 

According to Hamas the war in Israel is also not over yet....

No, no it is not!

[Canuckle]

4 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Hamas has a purely Genocidal message.  Israel one of indifference to collateral damage.

 

"Genocide" is Israel state policy my friend; codified by law and deemed morally right if you can believe that shit. Indifference to "collateral damage" is a real fluffy way of saying indifference to human life. Just like saying "occupied territory" is a fluffy way of putting it.

 

[Ilunga]

13 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

True, from one antisemite to another. You keep good company…

 Yes while I do admire Malcolm's fight for justice for Afro Americans he did express anti semitic feelings. 

 

Me I am a bigger fan of MLK who actually gave a speech about Jewish people behind the iron curtain

 

" The absence of opportunity to associate as Jews in the enjoyment of Jewish culture and religious experience becomes a severe limitation upon the individual "

 

I am going to give my slightly modified version of another of his speeches 

 

I have a dream that my son will someday live in a world where people will not be judged by the colour of their skin/ race but by the content of their character 

[Canuck Surfer]

Just now, Canuckle said:

 

"Genocide" is Israel state policy my friend; codified by law and deemed morally right if you can believe that shit. Indifference to "collateral damage" is a real fluffy way of saying indifference to human life. Just like saying "occupied territory" is a fluffy way of putting it.

 

 

I have heard their leader state 'destroy all Hamas.' 

 

Indifference as stated remains closer to the truth; bear witness to my quote also suggesting this was still unacceptable. Completely unacceptable! I have called umpteen times for Israel to police its murderous behaviour. There are factions just as deadly as Hamas. It does exist. To show restraint. Yet its not govt policy to destroy ALL Palestinians.

 

Someone just posted Bibi quoting scripture, and 3000 year old people called Almiken?  As if it proves Bibi wants to commit Genocide. I believe the story was that Jews did survive a fight then. It does comment towards not having Genocide committed against.  

 

Genocide may be what you prefer / intend / decide to hear.  

 

 

[Canuckle]

Just now, Ilunga said:

Malcolm's fight for justice for Afro Americans he did express anti semitic feelings. 

 

I kinda love that he jumped there.

 

Rather than focusing on the purpose of the quote, he jumped straight into an ad hominem of Malcolm X (and then myself) to deflect from the message itself:

 

Palestinians are the oppressed.

 

The Israeli state are the oppressors.

 

 

[Canuckle]

1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Yet its not govt policy to destroy ALL Palestinians.

 

Oh, it sure is. Just as it was policy of the Canadian government with Indigenous peoples or Australian government with Aboriginal peoples.

 

That land you're currently on? Yeah, I want it. Move so I can take it. Or I kill you and then take it anyway.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement

 

People can try and justify all sorts of shit in all sorts of ways. Sure, use some scripture. Whatever it takes to claim to be right. The end result is the still same.

 

And last I checked I didn't see Palestinians bulldozing, taking homes and throwing people on the streets claiming them for themselves. The Israeli state on the other hand...

 

Israel is a terrorist state, mate.

[Ilunga]

1 minute ago, Canuckle said:

 

I kinda love that he jumped there.

 

Rather than focusing on the purpose of the quote, he jumped straight into an ad hominem of Malcolm X (and then myself) to deflect from the message itself:

 

Palestinians are the oppressed.

 

The Israeli state are the oppressors.

 

 

 

As I stated I do admire that Malcolm fought for the rights of his people who were, and still currently are victims of oppression.

 

However Malcolm was a radical.

Look at the current conflict, it is driven by radicals on both sides.

 

That's why I hold MLK in such high esteem, he advocated for a peaceful, non violent approach to change. 

 

As for the Palestinians I have posted how many prominent Isrealis themselves have commented on the fact that Isreal practices arpartheid. 

This does not justify the horrific attacks on October the 7th. 

Fact of the matter is that they played into the hands of the extremists on the other side of this conflict.

Now those extremists who have a more potent arsenal are hitting back. 

 

So the circle of hatred continues with women and children on both sides the real victims.

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, Canuckle said:

In the illustrious words of Malcolm X,

 

"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing."

 

Hamas leaders are often living away from the fight.  In Penthouses in Dubai, UAE, Qatar.  In seaside mansions in Turkey, Libya. 

 

The income funds are from illegal arms trade, people smuggling, underground control of Gaza by taxing locals for security, collect fee's for goods allowed through tunnels in to the country. Providing militant fighters in regional battles. It has been documented that 5 or 7 of the richest men who have ever lived; recently or still control countries like Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Syria. This includes Yasir Arafat, former head of the Palestine Liberation Operation Organization deposed by Hamas, for;

 

Gasp, making peace with Israel?

 

Did Arafat really do that? Did Hamas really depose someone who was trying to make peace after decades of war? Well I am not sure for Arafat it was not just another racket. Yet it is true! Palestine is led by those who got rid of someone trying to make peace. Just as its largely recognized Hamas is acting now, as peace with their Arabic rivals, Saudi Arabia, for control of the ME were ready to cut deals with Israel.   

 

Hamas are both a fraud, and just another group vying for power. Like every plunderer, it seems, for 300 thousand years calling it a Holy War. It just lines their pockets at the xpense of oppression to their people. They were offered Gaza in 2006, turned down a two state recognition of their independence. Attacked Israel immediately.  This oppression spoken of does see them suffer at the hands of Israelis. Yes this is their own position taken, their own subjugation of their own people because they, in fact, did not want to make peace!

[Canuckle]

3 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Hamas leaders are often living away from the fight.  In Penthouses in Dubai, UAE, Qatar.  In seaside mansions in Turkey, Libya. 

 

The income funds are from illegal arms trade, people smuggling, underground control of Gaza by taxing locals for security, collect fee's for goods allowed through tunnels in to the country. Providing militant fighters in regional battles. It has been documented that 5 or 7 of the richest men who have ever lived; recently or still control countries like Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Syria. This includes Yasir Arafat, former head of the Palestine Liberation Operation Organization deposed by Hamas, for;

 

Gasp, making peace with Israel?

 

Did Arafat really do that? Did Hamas really depose someone who was trying to make peace after decades of war? Well I am not sure for Arafat it was not just another racket. Yet it is true! Palestine is led by those who got rid of someone trying to make peace. Just as its largely recognized Hamas is acting now, as peace with their Arabic rivals, Saudi Arabia, for control of the ME were ready to cut deals with Israel.   

 

Hamas are both a fraud, and just another group vying for power. Like every plunderer, it seems, for 300 thousand years calling it a Holy War. It just lines their pockets at the xpense of oppression to their people. They were offered Gaza in 2006, turned down a two state recognition of their independence. Attacked Israel immediately.  This oppression spoken of does see them suffer at the hands of Israelis. Yes this is their own position taken, their own subjugation of their own people because they, in fact, did not want to make peace!

 

Whole lotta words to deflect from the fact Israel is commiting genocide on Palestinian peoples. And victim blaming even! Like I said in my other post. Whatever it takes to justify, right?

 

Palestinian people are the oppressed.

 

Israel state are the oppressors (along with the US and whatever other western powers are backing them.)

 

And lest we forget, War is always good for business, good for the economy, especially for one like the US! No secret why they wouldn't want a ceasefire anytime soon.

[Squirter]

8 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

Whole lotta words to deflect from the fact Israel is commiting genocide on Palestinian peoples. And victim blaming even! Like I said in my other post. Whatever it takes to justify, right?

 

Palestinian people are the oppressed.

 

Israel state are the oppressors (along with the US and whatever other western powers are backing them.)

 

And lest we forget, War is always good for business, good for the economy, especially for one like the US! No secret why they wouldn't want a ceasefire anytime soon.

 

 

[Canuckle]

37 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

As I stated I do admire that Malcolm fought for the rights of his people who were, and still currently are victims of oppression.

 

However Malcolm was a radical.

Look at the current conflict, it is driven by radicals on both sides.

 

That's why I hold MLK in such high esteem, he advocated for a peaceful, non violent approach to change. 

 

As for the Palestinians I have posted how many prominent Isrealis themselves have commented on the fact that Isreal practices arpartheid. 

This does not justify the horrific attacks on October the 7th. 

Fact of the matter is that they played into the hands of the extremists on the other side of this conflict.

Now those extremists who have a more potent arsenal are hitting back. 

 

So the circle of hatred continues with women and children on both sides the real victims.

 

And as a so-called "radical," this is probably where you and I will disagree my friend.

 

The stated effectiveness of nonviolence to affect change are little more than falsified histories of struggle. Whether MLK or even Gandhi.

 

I don't know if you have interest to read this, but its a book by Peter Gelderloos aptly named "How nonviolence protects the state."

 

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-how-nonviolence-protects-the-state

 

I understand the appeal to end the cycle of violence though. Obviously nobody wants more bloodshed here. The only question I have is when will Israel stop seizing land and their  mission of ethnic cleansing of the "barbarians" as a few users here so eloquently put it.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Canuckle

[Canuck Surfer]

7 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

That land you're currently on? Yeah, I want it. Move so I can take it. Or I kill you and then take it anyway.

 

This is all pretty accurate. Pretty fair?

 

700,000 Palestinians displaced in 1948 is large, was large.  Yet inconsequential compared to displacement from other wars. Including Jews. Specifically WWI & WWII, which were the times at hand. 75 Million Dead, 85 Million displaced. Not even that significantly larger than the # of Jews displaced in 'Palestine' in the 15 years preceding 1948, in Palestine only. Further, in 1948, Jordan, who helped sell the Palestinian land to the Zionists, then joined the Saudi's, Egyptians & Lebanese attacking Israel.  None of the gave a sh!t?  Those partners of Palestine just wanted their piece!

 

Iraq recently, during & after Hussein's reign displaced 2,000,000 Christians. Yazidi populations saw 360,000 displaced also in Iraq, as well as some from Syria.  350,000 Civilians dead, 500,000 more displaced in Syrian civil wars in the last 15 years. 1,600,000 Kurds were also displaced from Iraq, Iran, Syria & Azerbaijan. Another 3,000,000 Kurds in Turkey. 1/2 Million remain stateless, in refugee camps. Hamas & Hezbollah groups among those accused of funding their operations smuggling goods, recruiting fighters, sex slaves, food, weapons, cigarettes in such camps. Stealing goods in raids, as these people are helpless. Victims who sell their soles, as their families are starving, stuck, desperate. Gaza has apartment buildings.  It had drawn Israeli fire, but a better life compared to refugee camps & slums in Northern Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Pakistan, Middle Africa. These are the same people that support, and have been partners with Hamas as they established their corrupt brand of power. These are all ME conflicts that impacted, each, many times those dead or displaced in Gaza since Hamas took over.  

 

Its odd so many around the world are blind to Israel not being the only a factor in Palestinian suffering. I remain very interested in justice for Israeli crimes, which are real.

 

Honest question? Where do you live?  Would you not try to leave if it was Hamas controlling life where you are?     

 

Are these regime's not the root source of ME issues? 

 

 

[Squirter]

57 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

I have heard their leader state 'destroy all Hamas.' 

 

Indifference as stated remains closer to the truth; bear witness to my quote also suggesting this was still unacceptable. Completely unacceptable! I have called umpteen times for Israel to police its murderous behaviour. There are factions just as deadly as Hamas. It does exist. To show restraint. Yet its not govt policy to destroy ALL Palestinians.

 

Someone just posted Bibi quoting scripture, and 3000 year old people called Almiken?  As if it proves Bibi wants to commit Genocide. I believe the story was that Jews did survive a fight then. It does comment towards not having Genocide committed against.  

 

Genocide may be what you prefer / intend / decide to hear.  

 

 

no denying their intent is what you’re trying to accomplish. Won’t work here. 

[Canuckle]

5 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

This is all pretty accurate. Pretty fair?

 

700,000 Palestinians displaced in 1948 is large, was large.  Yet inconsequential compared to displacement from other wars. Including Jews. Specifically WWI & WWII, which were the times at hand. 75 Million Dead, 85 Million displaced. Not even that significantly larger than the # of Jews displaced in 'Palestine' in the 15 years preceding 1948, in Palestine only. Further, in 1948, Jordan, who helped sell the Palestinian land to the Zionists, then joined the Saudi's, Egyptians & Lebanese attacking Israel.  None of the gave a sh!t?  Those partners of Palestine just wanted their piece!

 

Iraq recently, during & after Hussein's reign displaced 2,000,000 Christians. Yazidi populations saw 360,000 displaced also in Iraq, as well as some from Syria.  350,000 Civilians dead, 500,000 more displaced in Syrian civil wars in the last 15 years. 1,600,000 Kurds were also displaced from Iraq, Iran, Syria & Azerbaijan. Another 3,000,000 Kurds in Turkey. 1/2 Million remain stateless, in refugee camps. Hamas & Hezbollah groups among those accused of funding their operations smuggling goods, recruiting fighters, sex slaves, food, weapons, cigarettes in such camps. Stealing goods in raids, as these people are helpless. Victims who sell their soles, as their families are starving, stuck, desperate. Gaza has apartment buildings.  It had drawn Israeli fire, but a better life compared to refugee camps & slums in Northern Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Pakistan, Middle Africa. These are the same people that support, and have been partners with Hamas as they established their corrupt brand of power. These are all ME conflicts that impacted, each, many times those dead or displaced in Gaza since Hamas took over.  

 

Its odd so many around the world are blind to Israel not being the only a factor in Palestinian suffering. I remain very interested in justice for Israeli crimes, which are real.

 

Honest question? Where do you live?  Would you not try to leave if it was Hamas controlling life where you are?     

 

Are these regime's not the root source of ME issues?

 

Since you ignored my previous post and jumped right back into...whatever this is...  I'm gonna repost it.

 

Genocide is in fact Israeli policy. Just as it was policy of the Canadian government with Indigenous peoples or Australian government with Aboriginal peoples.

 

That land you're currently on? Yeah, I want it. Move so I can take it. Or I kill you and then take it anyway.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement

 

People can try and justify all sorts of shit in all sorts of ways. Sure, use some scripture. Whatever it takes to claim to be right. The end result is the still same.

 

And last I checked I didn't see Palestinians bulldozing, taking homes and throwing people on the streets claiming them for themselves. The Israeli state on the other hand...

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

19 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

Whole lotta words to deflect from the fact Israel is commiting genocide on Palestinian peoples. And victim blaming even! Like I said in my other post. Whatever it takes to justify, right?

 

Palestinian people are the oppressed.

 

Israel state are the oppressors (along with the US and whatever other western powers are backing them.)

 

And lest we forget, War is always good for business, good for the economy, especially for one like the US! No secret why they wouldn't want a ceasefire anytime soon.

No.

 

Read a few pages.

 

Instead of blatantly labelling the whole hoopla as genocide?  You will find I have spent a great deal of time researching, calling out, and asking for action to retard Israeli activities which are illegal.  Called for justice.  Called for Israel to be the leader, arrest and take action against those in their ranks abusing civilians in the West Bank.  In Gaza, Lebanon. Item by item, crime category by category.  I have also called for restraint, condemned the bunker busting missiles falling on Gaza. I don't call these justified. I have heavily criticized Israel.

 

But also remember as many as 50,000 missiles have been aimed at civilian targets in Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, hostage takings, bombing attacks of busses & events. There is a reason Israel feels, I do agree but not wholly agree, they have to defend themselves. Then still, just 2 or 4 pages ago I was clearly saying 1 or 5 leaders do not justify the civilian death in their attack yesterday. Restraint!

 

My point is Israel is not the only criminal side here.

 

Why are Hamas not part of the blame when they refused to accept a two state solution in 2006? Four other times since 1948 under different leadership!

 

Hamas knocked this back, then immediately attacked Israel. 

 

People need to call out both sides to have credibility.  Critique each side.

 

How do you stop Hamas's illegal activity?

[Canuckle]

25 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

No.

 

Read a few pages.

 

Instead of blatantly labelling the whole hoopla as genocide?  You will find I have spent a great deal of time researching, calling out, and asking for action to retard Israeli activities which are illegal.  Called for justice.  Called for Israel to be the leader, arrest and take action against those in their ranks abusing civilians in the West Bank.  In Gaza, Lebanon. Item by item, crime category by category.  I have also called for restraint, condemned the bunker busting missiles falling on Gaza. I don't call these justified. I have heavily criticized Israel.

 

But also remember as many as 50,000 missiles have been aimed at civilian targets in Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, hostage takings, bombing attacks of busses & events. There is a reason Israel feels, I do agree but not wholly agree, they have to defend themselves. Then still, just 2 or 4 pages ago I was clearly saying 1 or 5 leaders do not justify the civilian death in their attack yesterday. Restraint!

 

My point is Israel is not the only criminal side here.

 

Why are Hamas not part of the blame when they refused to accept a two state solution in 2006? Four other times since 1948 under different leadership!

 

Hamas knocked this back, then immediately attacked Israel. 

 

People need to call out both sides to have credibility.  Critique each side.

 

How do you stop Hamas's illegal activity?

 

Well, I'd say giving Palestinians back their homes on conquered lands would be a good fucking start. What are the odds of that happening do you think?

 

The Israeli state is an invading force. And no amount of rationalizing this or that atrocity, this or that passage in whatever book can convince me it's justified.

 

Just think. If our historically oppressed Indigenous populations became the ruling class in Canada...and they just started bulldozing and kicking people out of their homes into the streets in Vancouver.

 

This was our land before you got here. We will take it back by force if we have to.

 

Would that be right to do?

 

Not so much.

 

But we somehow convince ourselves it's justified for the Israeli state to do it to Palestinian people. And yes, it's Israeli state policy. You can go ahead and point the finger at whatever arab person or group you want. Until the systematic genocide in Palestine ends, Israel doesn't have a justifiable defense for much of anything here far as I'm concerned. 

 

When the oppressed become the oppressors. When the abused become the abusers. And on and on we go.

 

Yes, it's genocide. And pretty obvious at that

Edited November 2, 2023 by Canuckle

[Ilunga]

48 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

And as a so-called "radical," this is probably where you and I will disagree my friend.

 

The stated effectiveness of nonviolence to affect change are little more than falsified histories of struggle. Whether MLK or even Gandhi.

 

I don't know if you have interest to read this, but its a book by Peter Gelderloos aptly named "How nonviolence protects the state."

 

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-how-nonviolence-protects-the-state

 

I understand the appeal to end the cycle of violence though. Obviously nobody wants more bloodshed here. The only question I have is when will Israel stop seizing land and their  mission of ethnic cleansing of the "barbarians" as a few users here so eloquently put it.

 

Alright, I read for about 30 minutes and while the examples changed the message remained the same.

The use of violence to neccisitate change.

And by the way I own a copy of the Cointelpro papers by Ward Churchill.

Bought it at the same time I bought Derailing Democracy by David McGowan.

 

 

Question, have you ever used violence to change a group of peoples mind on a certain subject ?

I have when I was a young man.

 

I can even show you the sort of person we were fighting 

 

 

This movie was Russell Crowe's breakthrough role.

He spent months in pubs around Footscray in western Melbourne studying the skinheads we used to fight in the years leading up to this movie.

This is an accurate depiction of the young men we were fighting.

Take it from me, even when we beat the shit out of them, we didn't stop them from being racists. 

 

Violence doesn't solve problems, it only creates victims.

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, Canuckle said:

Well, I'd say giving Palestinians back their homes on conquered lands would be a good fucking start. What are the odds of that happening do you think?

 

Give back their lands as in vacate Israel?

[Canuck Surfer]

2 hours ago, Canuckle said:

Israel state are the oppressors (along with the US and whatever other western powers are backing them.)

 

And lest we forget, War is always good for business, good for the economy, especially for one like the US! No secret why they wouldn't want a ceasefire anytime soon.

 

Israel as a state deserves to be there.

 

Gaza under some form of Palestinian rule, also deserves to be there.  Just my opinion, but not Hamas. It was Hamas who knocked back an offer for Palestine to have its own state. They wanted all of Israel back, launched military action.  Which is why they are under blockade. Its from their blockaded position they dig tunnels, run arms trade & guns, people smuggling. Purchase missiles and weapons, transport them back to Palestine. Attack again, then again, then again. The oppression is self imposed, Hamas who has imprisoned & endangered their own people.

 

Nobody gets richer than autocrat & militant rulers of 2knd and third world countries. Who are  extremely corrupt, feast on the violence.  Yasir Arafat died one of the ten richest people on the planet.  The Palestinian problem is people who control guns & militia control all revenues. Its how Arafat got rich. Its how current Hamas leaders are getting rich. 

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, Canuckle said:

This was our land before you got here.

 

You are Native Canadian, or Palestinian?

 

Jewish people were in these contested regions 1500 years before they became sacred to 'Palestinians.' Have a guess how they became sacred to Muslim's? 

 

Have another guess what happened to Jewish people living in Palestine, their ancestral home in 1935?  They were suffering the same, lets use your term, Genocide, as Palestinian people today. Restricted access to their religious sites.  Being forced off their lands as displacement, secular violence, beatings, murder, forced control over businesses. Aggressive gangs killed people. On about the same scale as happened to Palestinians after. So they fought for their home exactly as you would have?

 

Here is a picture I took in a 2000 year old Mosque about 15 years ago. A mosaic of Jesus in Roman times that had been covered by Persian artifacts 500 years ago, uncovered. How dare those guys! It was a church for almost 1500 years, now a call to Muslim prayers rings through the sky at 4AM every day. 

 

 

 

My own guess is if you feel mistreated as an aboriginal? Think how Jews would feel.  

 

 

[Squirter]

4 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

You are Native Canadian, or Palestinian?

 

Jewish people were in these contested regions 1500 years before they became sacred to 'Palestinians.' Have a guess how they became sacred to Muslim's? 

 

Have another guess what happened to Jewish people living in Palestine, their ancestral home in 1935?  They were suffering the same, lets use your term, Genocide, as Palestinian people today. Restricted access to their religious sites.  Being forced off their lands as displacement, secular violence, beatings, murder, forced control over businesses. Aggressive gangs killed people. On about the same scale as happened to Palestinians after. So they fought for their home exactly as you would have?

 

Here is a picture I took in a 2000 year old Mosque about 15 years ago. A mosaic of Jesus in Roman times that had been covered by Persian artifacts 500 years ago, uncovered. How dare those guys! It was a church for almost 1500 years, now a call to Muslim prayers rings through the sky at 4AM every day. 

 

 

 

My own guess is if you feel mistreated as an aboriginal? Think how Jews would feel.  

 

 

I’ve learned differently on this subject. Care to share where you got your information? Seems inaccurate described. 
 

Naive nationalists misuse genealogical history to exclude and demonize. Some Jewish nationalists or Zionists seem to really mind the scientific finding that today’s Palestinians and other Levantine Arabs show strong genetic continuity with the Canaanites. This dismay derives from the Canaanite city-states and small kingdoms having preceded Israel in history, such that they have a stronger claim on being indigenous. If Palestinians are the descendants of the Canaanites, do they have a superior claim on today’s Israel/Palestine?

Edited November 2, 2023 by Squirter

[bishopshodan]

Some of the names he wrote have expressed support for Palestine, haven't heard them say Hamas.

 

I tell you this, he would need a bomb to try to take any one of those names in a fight. 

 

Anyway, sad stuff. 

 

 

[Boudrias]

3 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

You are Native Canadian, or Palestinian?

 

Jewish people were in these contested regions 1500 years before they became sacred to 'Palestinians.' Have a guess how they became sacred to Muslim's? 

 

Have another guess what happened to Jewish people living in Palestine, their ancestral home in 1935?  They were suffering the same, lets use your term, Genocide, as Palestinian people today. Restricted access to their religious sites.  Being forced off their lands as displacement, secular violence, beatings, murder, forced control over businesses. Aggressive gangs killed people. On about the same scale as happened to Palestinians after. So they fought for their home exactly as you would have?

 

Here is a picture I took in a 2000 year old Mosque about 15 years ago. A mosaic of Jesus in Roman times that had been covered by Persian artifacts 500 years ago, uncovered. How dare those guys! It was a church for almost 1500 years, now a call to Muslim prayers rings through the sky at 4AM every day. 

 

 

 

My own guess is if you feel mistreated as an aboriginal? Think how Jews would feel.  

 

 

The IDF will do what it has to in Gaza. Plain and simple they must destroy Hamas. Hamas uses its own people as shields. They have a well prepared propaganda strategy in anticipation of the fallout from Oct. 7th. The IDF is faced with brutal conditions inside Gaza. Finger pointing about their tactics might be justified at some point but limiting their conduct of this conflict cannot be.

 

The North Vietnamese and Viet Cong did much of what Hamas is accused of. The IRA in Belfast. It appears the majority of Palestinians support Hamas in their stated effort to eradicate Jews in Israel. As long as that is the case then Israel has no choice. The only way this can change is if the Palestinians have an avenue for peace with prosperity and an education system that supports that idea. Arab recognition of Israel was the beginning of reconciliation. Those threatened by that Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran sought to stop it.   

[bishopshodan]

12 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

It appears the majority of Palestinians support Hamas in their stated effort to eradicate Jews in Israel

 

Do you have a source for that assertion? 

 

I'm not sure how we would truely know but I did find this. Murky at best... I wonder why it's starting to change in the last few years though...less hope, more coordination by Hamas?... or, actions such as repealing the settlements act by Isreal? 

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/4273883-mellman-do-palestinians-support-hamas-polls-paint-a-murky-picture/#:~:text=Palestinian disillusionment with their choices,and 21 percent preferring Fatah.

 

 

[Bob Long]

13 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Do you have a source for that assertion? 

 

I'm not sure how we would truely know but I did find this. Murky at best... I wonder why it's starting to change in the last few years though...less hope, more coordination by Hamas?... or, actions such as repealing the settlements act by Isreal? 

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/4273883-mellman-do-palestinians-support-hamas-polls-paint-a-murky-picture/#:~:text=Palestinian disillusionment with their choices,and 21 percent preferring Fatah.

 

 

 

Because of the way Hamas is, it's actually hard to answer this because they haven't allowed an election since they took power in Gaza.