Hamas attacking Israel

[Canuck Surfer]

7 hours ago, Warhippy said:

As a matter of fact.  I am in fact a recognized first nations individual in canada.

 

Having spent time as a kid on the reservation system and having family that survived the scoop program, forcible relocation as well as residential school systems.  I can actually empathize with the issues of Judaism over the last hundred years.  but with this in mind I can also sympathize with what has been happening in gaza to Palestinians and on the west bank for the exact same reasons

 

Myself as well; on all counts!

[JIAHN]

The only solution I can see, is if Turkey and Egypt were to put a peace keeping force inside Palestine, and kept Hamas at bay, but I doubt countries like Iran and Syria would go for that without trying to derail it.

 

Ultimely, Hamas has to answer for starting this!

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, JIAHN said:

 

Quoting an Arab isn't really proving a point!

 

"IF" Hamas would come out of the cities and fight on the battlefield, there would not be bombings inside the cities

 

"IF" you can explain why they hide amongst the civilians after killing and abducting 1400 Israeli's, and it is not be genocide

 

I am sorry, I just do not find your argument validated by Hamas's actions.................

 

And do not get me wrong, I detest Palestinians being killed and injured, but until common Palestinian's hold Hamas accountable

 

How can you ask Israel to stop, as to stop will only encourage Hamas to continue with the exact same game plan, repeatedly

 

and Israeli's will have the exact same thing continually happen to them, on a continuous basis, with no cure for Israel

 

Stopping only stops until Hamas want to do it again, and again, and again.....

 

You guarantee me Hamas will never do it again, and I am sure Israel stops, but until then

 

You are shat out of luck.........

 

I do not think you ever answer that in any of your comments

 

Good point about Hamas fighting on the battlefield. I’ve read here that Hamas isn’t able to fight like that so they use guerrilla tactics. But IMHAO they are using terrorists tactics. Because Hamas sure appears to prefer to attack those who can’t fight back. I always thought guerrilla tactics targeted soldiers? And terrorists targeted civilians? Hsmas seems the latter. 

[Bob Long]

14 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Good point about Hamas fighting on the battlefield. I’ve read here that Hamas isn’t able to fight like that so they use guerrilla tactics. But IMHAO they are using terrorists tactics. Because Hamas sure appears to prefer to attack those who can’t fight back. I always thought guerrilla tactics targeted soldiers? And terrorists targeted civilians? Hsmas seems the latter. 

 

That's why I keep bringing up Hamas not going after military targets. One, they are cowards that use human shields, but it also doesn't inflame people in the same way. 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

That's why I keep bringing up Hamas not going after military targets. One, they are cowards that use human shields, but it also doesn't inflame people in the same way. 

It’s as if Hamas did the worst things possible on October 7th (as we’ve all read about) because they wanted this response from Israel. They could have targeted only the soldiers but they were so extreme in what they did. 
And now the hatred is spreading. IMHAO that’s what Hsmas wanted and that’s why they did such horrible things on October 7. They wanted this IDF response so they could call for others to behave in similar way in other countries. 
 

[Ilunga]

4 hours ago, bolt said:

 Do you believe they fight in honor?

 

https://allpoetry.com/poem/9658075-There-is-no-honour-in-war-by-Defy

 

 

 

THERE IS NO HONOUR IN WAR 

 

He's a young boy of ten with fear on his face 

He wants to flee but doesn't want to be a disgrace

He's a man of 30 with honour in his pace 

He's doing it for king and country 

Doing it for his race 

They whisper below that the war will never end 

Some think that's it's going to last forever

Some think it's their friend

The bullets scream and rain down like dust in the wind 

The smoke is a thick white fog that snakes behind every bend 

Some ask the question " will the war ever end ?" 

Another one is down mustard gas they say 

" Poor sod. A young lad of 17 who will never go home for the day." 

There is an enemy behind every corner just waiting to shoot you dead 

" It's life or death here sonny, god save us hope you've said your prayers" 

With that the old colonel charged determinedly ahead 

" Fight to the very en"

Before the private lay in his grave

" To die for king and country is an honour "

They chant the mantra over and over again 

They try to make themselves believe it but they know they'll never be free

The front line is amass grave of corpses that make a blood red sea 

A band grenade rolls into the trench 

Johnny of 10 jumps in top of it, he doesn't want his brother to die 

The grenade goes off and the life slowly seeps out of his eyes 

His brother is left weeping, he promised his ma he would do his best

So he climbs up the ladder and runs towards his rest 

Some are shell shocked, others praying for death

" The lucky ones are dead! At least they lie in heaven and no longer have to defend

The allies and the enemy is the only line that is drawn

If the enemies were the allies the story would end differently

And we would be killing our "friends"

They marched off bravely one day to war with cheers from those they love 

But many did not come marching back home, many died that day 

Forget the glory and pride so revered 

Nightmares and the horrors of war became set in stone 

The young boisterous lads became men and old before their time 

Weary and cynical for the rest of their lives

" There is no honour in war, only death and pain!" 

" War solves nothing, never shall I fight again! "

 

[Bob Long]

10 minutes ago, Alflives said:

It’s as if Hamas did the worst things possible on October 7th (as we’ve all read about) because they wanted this response from Israel. They could have targeted only the soldiers but they were so extreme in what they did. 
And now the hatred is spreading. IMHAO that’s what Hsmas wanted and that’s why they did such horrible things on October 7. They wanted this IDF response so they could call for others to behave in similar way in other countries. 
 

 

Yep, and there are lots of people happy to go along with that thinking. 

 

What's happening at our universities is very disappointing.

[RomanPer]

7 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

https://allpoetry.com/poem/9658075-There-is-no-honour-in-war-by-Defy

 

 

 

THERE IS NO HONOUR IN WAR 

 

He's a young boy of ten with fear on his face 

He wants to flee but doesn't want to be a disgrace

He's a man of 30 with honour in his pace 

He's doing it for king and country 

Doing it for his race 

They whisper below that the war will never end 

Some think that's it's going to last forever

Some think it's their friend

The bullets scream and rain down like dust in the wind 

The smoke is a thick white fog that snakes behind every bend 

Some ask the question " will the war ever end ?" 

Another one is down mustard gas they say 

" Poor sod. A young lad of 17 who will never go home for the day." 

There is an enemy behind every corner just waiting to shoot you dead 

" It's life or death here sonny, god save us hope you've said your prayers" 

With that the old colonel charged determinedly ahead 

" Fight to the very en"

Before the private lay in his grave

" To die for king and country is an honour "

They chant the mantra over and over again 

They try to make themselves believe it but they know they'll never be free

The front line is amass grave of corpses that make a blood red sea 

A band grenade rolls into the trench 

Johnny of 10 jumps in top of it, he doesn't want his brother to die 

The grenade goes off and the life slowly seeps out of his eyes 

His brother is left weeping, he promised his ma he would do his best

So he climbs up the ladder and runs towards his rest 

Some are shell shocked, others praying for death

" The lucky ones are dead! At least they lie in heaven and no longer have to defend

The allies and the enemy is the only line that is drawn

If the enemies were the allies the story would end differently

And we would be killing our "friends"

They marched off bravely one day to war with cheers from those they love 

But many did not come marching back home, many died that day 

Forget the glory and pride so revered 

Nightmares and the horrors of war became set in stone 

The young boisterous lads became men and old before their time 

Weary and cynical for the rest of their lives

" There is no honour in war, only death and pain!" 

" War solves nothing, never shall I fight again! "

 

Sorry, brother, but I’ll have to disagree with you on the whole “no honour in war” thing. If it was the case, this entire world would have been ruled by really bad people, because primarily the bad people start all the wars. If the good people wouldn’t defend, the bad people would rule the world long ago. I would agree on the “there’s no glory in war” slogan, but honour is something completely different.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

Yep, and there are lots of people happy to go along with that thinking. 

 

What's happening at our universities is very disappointing.

Yup. All our citizens should express no hatred. Sadly we have some citizens who don’t know the difference between expressing their opinion and being hateful. Maybe when kids live such easy lives they don’t truly understand the real world? 

[moosehead]

8 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Yep, and there are lots of people happy to go along with that thinking. 

 

What's happening at our universities is very disappointing.

 

Universities are often where our brightest young people go to for formal education.

Typically more intelligent people better understand this conflict. 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Yup. All our citizens should express no hatred. Sadly we have some citizens who don’t know the difference between expressing their opinion and being hateful. Maybe when kids live such easy lives they don’t truly understand the real world? 

 

I think social media plays a very big part in disinformation for kids, but worse it seems like once an opinion is formed that way it's very intense and I suspect very hard to change.

 

We don't wait for evidence anymore, people have to disprove things.

[moosehead]

8 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

Sorry, brother, but I’ll have to disagree with you on the whole “no honour in war” thing. If it was the case, this entire world would have been ruled by really bad people, because primarily the bad people start all the wars. If the good people wouldn’t defend, the bad people would rule the world long ago. I would agree on the “there’s no glory in war” slogan, but honour is something completely different.

There is definately no honor in bulldozing some persons house.  Shooting his dog.  Occupying his land.   Telling him that he and his family can never return as the land is now been given to a USA jewish settler... ( american jewish are given free land in occupied territory ).

 

There is definately no honor in this. 

 

Israeli politicians and IDF leaders are War Criminals.  Hopefully see them arrested and in court.  Incarceration for their offenses to humanity. 

Hamas Terrorist can be tried in court on Mon - Wed.   Israeli politicians / IDF leader go to court Thurs - Fri.

 

Both will meet in Hell later after death anyways... might as well meet in prison. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by moosehead

[Ilunga]

1 minute ago, RomanPer said:

Sorry, brother, but I’ll have to disagree with you on the whole “no honour in war” thing. If it was the case, this entire world would have been ruled by really bad people, because primarily the bad people start all the wars. If the good people wouldn’t defend, the bad people would rule the world long ago. I would agree on the “there’s no glory in war” slogan, but honour is something completely different.

 

I believe that Michael Scott nailed it when he stated 

 

" There is no honour in war, less in killing, and none in dying. But there was true dignity in how men comported  themselves in battle.

And there was always honour to be found in standing for a just cause and defending the defenseless "

[Ilunga]

16 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I think social media plays a very big part in disinformation for kids, but worse it seems like once an opinion is formed that way it's very intense and I suspect very hard to change.

 

We don't wait for evidence anymore, people have to disprove things.

 

Confirmation bias is a human trait that has been around long before social media as we know it today.

 

https://www.britannica.com/science/confirmation-bias

 

There is also the Dunning- Kruger effect, and research has illustrated the opposite effect, high performers that underestimate their abilities.

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Confirmation bias is a human trait that has been around long before social media as we know it today.

 

https://www.britannica.com/science/confirmation-bias

 

There is also the Dunning- Kruger effect, and research has illustrated the opposite effect, high performers that underestimate their abilities.

 

Yes "incompetent and unaware of it" plays in for sure

 

Intentions mean a lot to me as well.

[moosehead]

2 hours ago, Taxi said:

 

Yes, but they asked the people to leave first. If genocide was the goal, why would they give Hamas time to prepare. Why wasn't the invasion on day 1? Why an invasion at all? Why not just kill everyone?

 

Israel is not getting banned from the olympics.

 

You do realize that Israeli IDF terrorists bombed innnocent women and children in  south gaza after the families  fled to the south.

 

Countries that practise Apartheid are often banned from world sports events... So it would not be surprising to see Israel banned from upcoming olympics.

The world needs to send a message that occupation / oppresion / ethnic cleansing / Apartheid are not accepted in 2023.  

Edited November 3, 2023 by moosehead

[Ilunga]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Yes "incompetent and unaware of it" plays in for sure

 

Intentions mean a lot to me as well.

 

It's hard to ascertain the truth at the best of times.

Check out the studies on witness statements. 

 

https://nobaproject.com/modules/eyewitness-testimony-and-memory-biases

 

" Faulty eyewitness testimony has been implicated in at least 75 percent of DNA exoneration cases- more than than any other cause "

 

 

Check out how words can change what we "see" in this experiment done by Elizabeth Loftus  

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/we-see-what-programmed-l-david-marquet

 

The best we can do, is access as much information as we can about the subject we are researching, and take the common themes into account.

[moosehead]

49 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

Sorry, brother, but I’ll have to disagree with you on the whole “no honour in war” thing. If it was the case, this entire world would have been ruled by really bad people, because primarily the bad people start all the wars. If the good people wouldn’t defend, the bad people would rule the world long ago. I would agree on the “there’s no glory in war” slogan, but honour is something completely different.

 

No honor in bombing families fleeing IDF attacks. 

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

It's hard to ascertain the truth at the best of times.

Check out the studies on witness statements. 

 

https://nobaproject.com/modules/eyewitness-testimony-and-memory-biases

 

" Faulty eyewitness testimony has been implicated in at least 75 percent of DNA exoneration cases- more than than any other cause "

 

 

Check out how words can change what we "see" in this experiment done by Elizabeth Loftus  

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/we-see-what-programmed-l-david-marquet

 

The best we can do, is access as much information as we can about the subject we are researching, and take the common themes into account.

 

Thanks the eyewitness stuff is fascinating.

[Ilunga]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

Thanks the eyewitness stuff is fascinating.

 

We all have inbuilt biases of various sorts.

To find the truth, one has to identify their own and others biases. 

 

My first three basic Bull shit detector's, the person whose " message " you are researching history, their motivation for delivering that  " message ", and what they have to gain from delivering that message.

[moosehead]

Will he be remembered as a Hero or now as a terrorist ?

 

 

tank commander hailed as hero after Hamas attack is killed in Gaza

Lt Col Salman Habaka was among first Israeli troops to arrive in Israel’s south after attack on 7 October

An Israeli tank commander who was hailed as a hero for his actions during Hamas’s attack on Be’eri kibbutz, the scene of one of the worst massacres on 7 October, has been killed while commanding his tank battalion in northern Gaza.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/02/israeli-tank-commander-hailed-as-hero-after-hamas-attack-is-killed-in-gaza

Edited November 3, 2023 by moosehead

[Warhippy]

49 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

I believe that Michael Scott nailed it when he stated 

 

" There is no honour in war, less in killing, and none in dying. But there was true dignity in how men comported  themselves in battle.

And there was always honour to be found in standing for a just cause and defending the defenseless "

[Bob Long]

11 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

We all have inbuilt biases of various sorts.

To find the truth, one has to identify their own and others biases. 

 

My first three basic Bull shit detector's, the person whose " message " you are researching history, their motivation for delivering that  " message ", and what they have to gain from delivering that message.

 

That's a good way to assess things. 

 

When there's a lot of info flying around like in this current conflict I think waiting to hear all the facts before reacting gives you some power back, in our current age that demands instant judgment.

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

Thanks the eyewitness stuff is fascinating.

There was quite a study done, the core thing I remember is that a group was witnessing an event and it got fascinating and chaotic, then a gorilla suit wearing guy walked through the scen. The eyewitnesses to the event that very engrossing didn't recall a gorilla suit moving through the action they were describing in great detail, at all. Very few of the eye witnesses could say for certain there was a gorilla suit that is how bad eye witnesses are; they judge what they saw quickly and then remember the bits that support their position  then worse, every time you remember an event, you are in fact now remembering the memory. 24 retelling later and it isn't what you saw at all.

[moosehead]

• The only remaining hospital serving cancer patients in Gaza has been forced to shut down, with other hospitals saying they are on the brink of running out of power as Israel continues to block fuel deliveries.

• The UN humanitarian affairs office has said the daily rate of settler violence in the occupied West Bank has more than doubled since October 7, with an average of seven attacks per day, up from three.

• More Latin American countries could take action against Israel: Analyst

   

  Bolivia has cut ties with Israel. Colombia and Chile have recalled their ambassadors. Argentina has condemned Israeli strikes

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/1/israel-hamas-war-live-anger-grows-over-israeli-attack-on-gaza-refugee-camp

Edited November 3, 2023 by moosehead