Hamas attacking Israel

[Ilunga]

16 minutes ago, Squirter said:

 

 

There is nothing like Isreal ?

 

Tell that to the Uighurs in China.

Tell that to the Rohingyas in Myanmar. 

 

They all have one thing in common, they are Muslim minorities

 

 

[Squirter]

27 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

There is nothing like Isreal ?

 

Tell that to the Uighurs in China.

Tell that to the Rohingyas in Myanmar. 

 

They all have one thing in common, they are Muslim minorities

 

 

self defence right?

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

3 minutes ago, Squirter said:

self defence right?

 

 

 

 

So ?

How is asking that question relevant to my post ?

 

Did you bother to watch any of the documentaries I have posted in the last couple of days ? 

 

There are regimes that are worse than Isreals, I suggest you do some research.

Start with the Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad

[Canuck Surfer]

10 hours ago, moosehead said:

It is also clear that Israel's assault on Hamas is causing terrible bloodshed. The latest figure for Palestinian deaths from Gaza's health ministry, run by Hamas, has exceeded 9,000 - of whom around 65% are children and women.

 

Some of the Palestinian dead would have been part of Hamas. But even if that proportion is as high as 10%, which is unlikely, it means that Israel is on course to have killed as many Palestinian civilians in just over a month as Russia has killed in Ukraine since February 2022

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67306902

 

This needs a fact check. Brutal, absolutely horrific! Just not on the same scale.

 

435,000 lived in Mariupol pre war.  35,000 40,000 are still there.  There are graves numbering in tens of thousands outside the city. Hundreds in some cases each under apartment buildings.  85% of apartments and houses were flattened. Ground Zero. Bakhmut is about 1/2 that size; just as bad, although less civilian deaths. Russia has been accused of filling such buildings in with cement and building over top. Roughly 300,000 are accounted for as having fled.  The rest are presumed in those graveyards, under buildings. Thats two cities. 

 

Over 200 hospitals have already been destroyed.  Ukraine has / had 17 or 18 x the population.  The military death toll presumed well over 1/2 million.

 

The numbers in Ukraine actually slight compared to Yemen.

[Taxi]

13 hours ago, Riddikulus said:

Which robber would kill 5 people everyday? Pretty sure the goal of robbery is to profit not to slay people. 

 

I agree that metaphors are a dumb way to argue your point, but you just made a dumb metaphor even dumber. 

Exactly Hamas isn't a robber. They are a terrorist organization that just killed 1400 Israeli civilians and said they would kill many more.

[Bob Long]

5 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

I was young but I clearly remember Munich.

Then decades later watching the movie about how Isreal tracked down some of those responsible.

I grew up with the Red Brigades, Baader Meinhof, the PLO were more active back then. 

 

I don't blame you at all, I have a great deal of empathy for you, both these wars must be taking a huge toll on your emotional state.

My comments weren't directed at you so much, more at the people who just keep posting about blame, who focus on hatred, that's why I posted those docos, they give one an insight into what the reality of life is in the occupied territories.

 

Please keep posting them, it's fascinating and useful.

 

5 hours ago, Ilunga said:

I am lucky, I don't know what my ethnicity is, maybe that's why it's easy to just consider myself a human being, sharing this planet with 8 billion other human beings.

 

It's funny I have kind of the same view but from a different way - I only exist because of Canada. I have grandparents from different parts of Europe that met here. Without immigration I'm nothing.

[Bob Long]

8 hours ago, Super19 said:

 I imagine what they think is that Netanyahu deserves is a good hard look from all world leaders. And def not a green light to do whatever Nentanyahu pleases, as we are seeing it is a brutal nightmare for many innocents. End the siege, end the occupation. Don't destroy Gaza and Gazans, and kill scores of people.

 

Then have an anti-Bibi protest. Because it sure look like it's a much bigger sentiment than that going on .

[CBH1926]

On 11/3/2023 at 8:50 AM, Taxi said:

 

The allies killed 15+ million people in concentration camps? If the Germans had won, everyone in Europe would be speaking German. Big differences. 

You missed my point. What  I was trying to say is that those who are saying there is no difference between the Israel and Hamas. It’s akin to saying that the allies were the same as Germany, since both sides committed war crimes.

[CBH1926]

23 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

 

I'm English, no problem saying my country was the one of the worst ever in history. No pride in my national heritage. Countries are all just lines on a map made by men. Humans exist in all parts of the world and are equal. 

 

I pray hope for evolution for our species. 

 

English have built an empire that at one point spanned quarter of the earth so their crimes were magnified.

For the most part every country and the nation have been doing horrible things to others.

 

 

[Bob Long]

3 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

This needs a fact check. Brutal, absolutely horrific! Just not on the same scale.

 

435,000 lived in Mariupol pre war.  35,000 40,000 are still there.  There are graves numbering in tens of thousands outside the city. Hundreds in some cases each under apartment buildings.  85% of apartments and houses were flattened. Ground Zero. Bakhmut is about 1/2 that size; just as bad, although less civilian deaths. Russia has been accused of filling such buildings in with cement and building over top. Roughly 300,000 are accounted for as having fled.  The rest are presumed in those graveyards, under buildings. Thats two cities. 

 

Over 200 hospitals have already been destroyed.  Ukraine has / had 17 or 18 x the population.  The military death toll presumed well over 1/2 million.

 

The numbers in Ukraine actually slight compared to Yemen.

 

It's also conveniently cherry picked from the article.

 

Also the analogy is useless. What knowledge comes from it? Let's compare it to Yemen, at least it's in the same region.

[Riddikulus]

1 hour ago, CBH1926 said:

You missed my point. What  I was trying to say is that those who are saying there is no difference between the Israel and Hamas. It’s akin to saying that the allies were the same as Germany, since both sides committed war crimes.

1 hour ago, CBH1926 said:

English have built an empire that at one point spanned quarter of the earth so their crimes were magnified.

For the most part every country and the nation have been doing horrible things to others.

While the English empire does get a lot of criticism because of how influential they were, due to the territory they held, a lot of their worst atrocities don't get covered nearly as much or are lost to history. After all history is written by the victors, some crimes get whitewashed as a result.

 

Of course the allies winning was the only acceptable outcome but that doesn't mean that everything done while achieving said victory will be morally seen as being acceptable. People talk about the millions who died because of Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini, but history looks at Churchill quite kindly and how many millions died in Bengal famine, Churchill is on the record saying he hated those people, calling them "beastly people with a beastly religion".

[Gurn]

16 minutes ago, Riddikulus said:

While the English empire does get a lot of criticism because of how influential they were, due to the territory they held, a lot of their worst atrocities don't get covered nearly as much or are lost to history. After all history is written by the victors, some crimes get whitewashed as a result.

 

Of course the allies winning was the only acceptable outcome but that doesn't mean that everything done while achieving said victory will be morally seen as being acceptable. People talk about the millions who died because of Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini, but history looks at Churchill quite kindly and how many millions died in Bengal famine, Churchill is on the record saying he hated those people, calling them "beastly people with a beastly religion".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Mers-el-Kébir

"The attack on Mers-el-Kébir (Battle of Mers-el-Kébir) on 3 July 1940, during the Second World War, was a British naval attack on neutral^[3][a] French Navy ships at the naval base at Mers El Kébir, near Oran, on the coast of French Algeria. The attack was the main part of Operation Catapult, a British plan to neutralise or destroy neutral French ships to prevent them from falling into German hands after the Allied defeat in the Battle of France. The British bombardment of the base killed 1,297 French servicemen, sank a battleship and damaged five other ships, for a British loss of five aircraft shot down and two crewmen killed. The attack by air and sea was conducted by the Royal Navy, after France had signed armistices with Germany and Italy, coming into effect on 25 June."

 

 

Note- the part about 'neutral fleet'

[moosehead]

The stepdaughter of Vice President Harris is publicly raising money for Gaza, The Post has learned.

 

Ella Emhoff, 24 — whose father, First Gentleman Doug Emhoff, is Jewish — affixed a fundraising drive “supporting urgent relief for Gaza’s children” on her personal Instagram account.

 

It makes no mention of the scores of Israeli children murdered among the 1,400 innocent Israelis killed by Hamas terrorists on Oct. 7.

Her promotion puts the funding appeal in front of her 315,000 Instagram followers.

 

The fundraiser, which has netted more than $7.8 million so far, is being operated by the Palestinian Children’s Relief Fund, a nonprofit based in Kent, Ohio, which raked in more than $21 million in 2021,

 

https://nypost.com/2023/11/04/news/kamala-harris-stepdaughter-ella-emhoff-raising-money-for-gaza/

Edited November 4, 2023 by moosehead

[Grandmaster]

10 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

Thank you for your post. I was at the vigil and know exactly what you are describing. What was also disturbing is that police wouldn't do anything about them. In reality, it was as if they were protecting them. We tried to bring up various reasons - "disturbance of peace", "uttering threats", etc. and all we heard "we could arrest them but we won't be able to prosecute, so we won't arrest them".

The VPD has a directive to allow protesters to protest unless there are clear criminal violations and to offer protection to all sides to show no favouritism. So breaching the peace/causing a disturbance is not an easy arrest option, especially at protest place (Art Gallery) where protests have been historically allowed. I would say it could have applied should they have run into the crowd and disregarded the police line. The protesters were separated and they complied in staying to their area.
 

As awful as they were, general threats about an overseas matter to people outside of Canada are not something police deal with here. Yelling out obscenities to the crowd was disturbing and some of that was stopped by the police on scene. Once they targeted folks individually like what I mentioned about them walking to their cars, that’s open season for uttering threats. Those guys got dealt with. 
 

[moosehead]

7 minutes ago, Grandmaster said:

The VPD has a directive to allow protesters to protest unless there are clear criminal violations and to offer protection to all sides to show no favouritism. So breaching the peace/causing a disturbance is not an easy arrest option, especially at protest place (Art Gallery) where protests have been historically allowed. I would say it could have applied should they have run into the crowd and disregarded the police line. The protesters were separated and they complied in staying to their area.
 

As awful as they were, general threats about an overseas matter to people outside of Canada are not something police deal with here. Yelling out obscenities to the crowd was disturbing and some of that was stopped by the police on scene. Once they targeted folks individually like what I mentioned about them walking to their cars, that’s open season for uttering threats. Those guys got dealt with. 
 

 

Canadians suck at dealing with protestors.

Israel authourities have figured out the most efficient way to deal with protest..

 

The Commission investigated every killing at the designated demonstration sites by the Gaza separation fence on official protest days. The investigation covered the period from the start of the protests until 31 December 2018. 189 Palestinians were killed during the demonstrations inside this period. The Commission found that Israeli Security Forces killed 183 of these protesters with live ammunition. Thirty-five of these fatalities were children, while three were clearly marked paramedics, and two were clearly marked journalists.

 

According to the Commission’s data analysis, the Israeli Security Forces injured 6,106 Palestinians with live ammunition at the protest sites during this period. Another 3,098 Palestinians were injured by bullet fragmentation, rubber-coated metal bullets or by hits from tear gas canisters. Four Israeli soldiers were injured at the demonstrations. Four Israeli soldiers were injured at the demonstrations. One Israeli soldier was killed on a protest day but outside the protest sites.

 

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/02/no-justification-israel-shoot-protesters-live-ammunition

[moosehead]

Truth.... - what a mess they left.   

 

Israel’s 2005 withdrawal from Gaza wasn’t just a unilateralist cop to Palestinian nationalism. At the time, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was pretty open about the fact that they were doing it for “demographic” reasons. Quite simply, Gaza had a lot of people and a high birth rate. So, if Israel annexed the territory, they were potentially absorbing so many Arabs that – in a few generations — Muslims would constitute the Israeli majority and they’d lose their ability to be both a democracy and a Jewish state.

 

https://theprovince.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/israeli-history/wcm/98d7f9e7-2e21-453f-8030-1c597c3569fb

Edited November 4, 2023 by moosehead

[Grandmaster]

Just now, moosehead said:

 

Canadians suck at dealing with protestors.

Israel authourities have figured out the most efficient way to deal with protest..

 

The Commission investigated every killing at the designated demonstration sites by the Gaza separation fence on official protest days. The investigation covered the period from the start of the protests until 31 December 2018. 189 Palestinians were killed during the demonstrations inside this period. The Commission found that Israeli Security Forces killed 183 of these protesters with live ammunition. Thirty-five of these fatalities were children, while three were clearly marked paramedics, and two were clearly marked journalists.

 

According to the Commission’s data analysis, the Israeli Security Forces injured 6,106 Palestinians with live ammunition at the protest sites during this period. Another 3,098 Palestinians were injured by bullet fragmentation, rubber-coated metal bullets or by hits from tear gas canisters. Four Israeli soldiers were injured at the demonstrations. Four Israeli soldiers were injured at the demonstrations. One Israeli soldier was killed on a protest day but outside the protest sites.

 

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/02/no-justification-israel-shoot-protesters-live-ammunition

I’m sure if we start experiencing violence like there, our police response would be much different.

[moosehead]

4 minutes ago, Grandmaster said:

I’m sure if we start experiencing violence like there, our police response would be much different.

 

Not so sure.  In Canada shooting children , paramedics, the press   is typically  frowned upon. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by moosehead

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Canadians suck at dealing with protestors.

Israel authourities have figured out the most efficient way to deal with protest..

 

The Commission investigated every killing at the designated demonstration sites by the Gaza separation fence on official protest days. The investigation covered the period from the start of the protests until 31 December 2018. 189 Palestinians were killed during the demonstrations inside this period. The Commission found that Israeli Security Forces killed 183 of these protesters with live ammunition. Thirty-five of these fatalities were children, while three were clearly marked paramedics, and two were clearly marked journalists.

 

According to the Commission’s data analysis, the Israeli Security Forces injured 6,106 Palestinians with live ammunition at the protest sites during this period. Another 3,098 Palestinians were injured by bullet fragmentation, rubber-coated metal bullets or by hits from tear gas canisters. Four Israeli soldiers were injured at the demonstrations. Four Israeli soldiers were injured at the demonstrations. One Israeli soldier was killed on a protest day but outside the protest sites.

 

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/02/no-justification-israel-shoot-protesters-live-ammunition

What exactly is the “occupied”territory the article refers to? 

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, moosehead said:

Truth.... - what a mess they left.   

 

Israel’s 2005 withdrawal from Gaza wasn’t just a unilateralist cop to Palestinian nationalism. At the time, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was pretty open about the fact that they were doing it for “demographic” reasons. Quite simply, Gaza had a lot of people and a high birth rate. So, if Israel annexed the territory, they were potentially absorbing so many Arabs that – in a few generations — Muslims would constitute the Israeli majority and they’d lose their ability to be both a democracy and a Jewish state.

 

https://theprovince.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/israeli-history/wcm/98d7f9e7-2e21-453f-8030-1c597c3569fb

I read the linked article and it’s title was:

 

“It is not apartheid: A quick debunking of the most obvious lies about the State of Israel”

 

Then it explains the propaganda war waged against Israel and Jewish people by Hamas and how a lot of people believe the lies. Or at least that’s how I see it. 

[moosehead]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I read the linked article and it’s title was:

 

“It is not apartheid: A quick debunking of the most obvious lies about the State of Israel”

 

Then it explains the propaganda war waged against Israel and Jewish people by Hamas and how a lot of people believe the lies. Or at least that’s how I see it. 

 

I  thought most of the article was rubbish.

 

I did appreciated the discussion about Israel abandoning Gaza due to the high Palestinian birth rates and the potential future impact on Israeli demographics / composition / democratic votes. 

 

 Imagine living in a country where you are fearful your racist policies may not be supported by immigrants.. / minorities...

Edited November 4, 2023 by moosehead

[RomanPer]

25 minutes ago, Grandmaster said:

The VPD has a directive to allow protesters to protest unless there are clear criminal violations and to offer protection to all sides to show no favouritism. So breaching the peace/causing a disturbance is not an easy arrest option, especially at protest place (Art Gallery) where protests have been historically allowed. I would say it could have applied should they have run into the crowd and disregarded the police line. The protesters were separated and they complied in staying to their area.
 

As awful as they were, general threats about an overseas matter to people outside of Canada are not something police deal with here. Yelling out obscenities to the crowd was disturbing and some of that was stopped by the police on scene. Once they targeted folks individually like what I mentioned about them walking to their cars, that’s open season for uttering threats. Those guys got dealt with. 
 

 

I sense that when you said initially “I was working there” is that you might be one of the police officers on the scene. If so - I’d like to thank you for your service! I had very nice conversations with a few of the police officers there.

[moosehead]

2 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

I sense that when you said initially “I was working there” is that you might be one of the police officers on the scene. If so - I’d like to thank you for your service! I had very nice conversations with a few of the police officers there.

 

Whenever i meet a police officer, fire fighter , ambulance attendent, or ex CDN military, i make a point of thanking them for their service.

 

Teachers and Nurses also have tough jobs..

Edited November 4, 2023 by moosehead

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, moosehead said:

 

I  thought most of the article was rubbish.

 

I did appreciated the discussion about Israel abandoning Gaza due to the high Palestinian birth rates and the potential future impact on Israeli demographics / composition / democratic votes. 

If you thought the article was rubbish why link it? I thought it was quite revealing. Because It sure does show how people can too easily be manipulated by propaganda. 

[moosehead]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If you thought the article was rubbish why link it? I thought it was quite revealing. Because It sure does show how people can too easily be manipulated by propaganda. 

 

i thought  the bit about why gaza was given up on was interesting 

Edited November 4, 2023 by moosehead