moosehead Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 From Jan 2023 Over 100 countries condemn Israel’s punitive measures against Palestinians following UNGA vote The signatories of the statement, as shared by the Palestinian Authority (PA) on Monday, expressed “deep concerns regarding the Israeli government’s decision to impose punitive measures against the Palestinian people, leadership, and civil society.” They said they “reject” these punitive measures and “call for their immediate reversal.” https://peoplesdispatch.org/2023/01/19/over-100-countries-condemn-israels-punitive-measures-against-palestinians-following-unga-vote/ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 13 minutes ago, Ilunga said: I am just a dumbass that only finished highschool and still learnt this along the way. https://www.endesa.com/en/the-e-face/biographies/who-actually-invented-the-light-bulb I was just ribbing you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 11 hours ago, Bob Long said: When I see these posts it reminds me of the old joke question "when did you stop beating your wife?". So many of these tweets are designed to manipulate. If I don't instantly agree or get upset then I'm an amoral monster. When someone takes time to write a book, research paper or teach a class on a topic. Even if I don’t agree with the author, I appreciate the time and effort that it took to acquire such knowledge. Nowadays it’s all about gotcha moments, tweets, memes, you tube videos etc. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 11 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: When someone takes time to write a book, research paper or teach a class on a topic. Even if I don’t agree with the author, I appreciate the time and effort that it took to acquire such knowledge. Nowadays it’s all about gotcha moments, tweets, memes, you tube videos etc. Yep and manipulation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckle Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 24 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Respectfully HAMAS engaged in a systematic slaughter of innocent civilians with the intent and sworn statement of wiping them off of the earth. While I again do not support or approve of what the IDF has done in the last 2-3 decades or Israeli policy; at no point has Hamas done much else other than attempt to remove Israel from the planet as their actions have shown. Whether one wants to argue point by point terminology or not. When you go home by home conducting a systematic slaughter of civilians, infants, men, women while taking video tapes promoting the removal of the ideology and individuals as well as suggesting their religion be expunged from the area and their nation cease to exist. You are engaging in what is tantamount to basic genocide. Tantamount to some horrendous things alright, but as I stated above, you won't find many reputable academics that agree with the argument. And let's remember that there's a difference between the views and actions of extremist groups like a Westboro Baptist Church and the Christian population writ large. Are we to say that church and their flavour of ideology is representative of the whole? Hardly. Just as there's a difference between the views of a population and the policies of the state itself. Yes, the Israeli state is committing genocide against Palestinians. We cannot say the same for Palestinians against Israelis or even Israelis against Palestinians. Again, there is a difference here. And one of extreme importance at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckle Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 3 hours ago, Bob Long said: academics? what do they have to do with any of this, other than provide commentary? What do the experts have to do with anything? Hmmm..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Yep and manipulation. I am showing my age, but I miss debating politics with people face to face where all they had to rely on was their knowledge. No google, Wikipedia and other modern day helpers where everyone is expert on everything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 31 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: When someone takes time to write a book, research paper or teach a class on a topic. Even if I don’t agree with the author, I appreciate the time and effort that it took to acquire such knowledge. Nowadays it’s all about gotcha moments, tweets, memes, you tube videos etc. It shouldn't take a PhD to distinguish right from wrong. "Do you condemn Hamas for Oct 7?" "Do you condemn Israel for what they are doing rn?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 10 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: I am showing my age, but I miss debating politics with people face to face where all they had to rely on was their knowledge. No google, Wikipedia and other modern day helpers where everyone is expert on everything. While to some extent I agree, you and I would not be having a discussion right now, a guy from Monbulk in Australia and a guy from Chicago in the US. As for the internet, when I was a kid/ teenager I had to rely on going to libraries to source material, often having to travel, by train, all the way into Melbourne to find the books I needed to educate myself. The internet has put that information at my finger tips. The same BS detector's apply. First and foremost is the ability to think critically. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Super19 said: It shouldn't take a PhD to distinguish right from wrong. "Do you condemn Hamas for Oct 7?" "Do you condemn Israel for what they are doing rn?" It’s not about distinguishing right or wrong. it’s about reducing 75 year old conflict into one tweet or you tube video titled “everything you need to know about the conflict. Not everything should come with instant gratification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, Ilunga said: While to some extent I agree, you and I would not be having a discussion right now, a guy from Monbulk in Australia and a guy from Chicago in the US. As for the internet, when I was a kid/ teenager I had to rely on going to libraries to source material, often having to travel, by train, all the way into Melbourne to find the books I needed to educate myself. The internet has put that information at my finger tips. The same BS detector's apply. First and foremost is the ability to think critically. While I agree that without internet we probably would have never met. I would love the opportunity to sit face to face and debate politics ad nauseam over some non alcoholic beverages. Nothing replaces human face to face interaction where you can see persons facial expressions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 26 minutes ago, Canuckle said: What do the experts have to do with anything? Hmmm..... Academic doesn't always equal expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Super19 said: It shouldn't take a PhD to distinguish right from wrong. "Do you condemn Hamas for Oct 7?" "Do you condemn Israel for what they are doing rn?" I condemn all senseless killing, above all the killing of women and children. In relation to this conflict, all the killing has been senseless. Killing in the name of nationalism. " Imagine there's no countries it isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for No religion to Imagine all the people Livin' life in peace You You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one " John Lennon Edited November 7, 2023 by Ilunga 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 12 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: While I agree that without internet we probably would have never met. I would love the opportunity to sit face to face and debate politics ad nauseam over some non alcoholic beverages. Nothing replaces human face to face interaction where you can see persons facial expressions. I totally agree my friend. Back when I had a computer and an internet connection, not my phone, I used to Skype with a few members of the old board. That was the next best thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckle Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 9 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Academic doesn't always equal expert. Well, when you're writing dissertations and your peer reviewed papers are being published in scholarly journals, it's usually a pretty good sign. Those are the people I'm referring to as experts. Because they by and large are. I take my medical advice from the experts in their prospective fields as well. Don't you? Not sure why this would be any different. Of course you can find outliers to most anything in life, and a healthy of dose of skeptism is never a bad thing, but we know the score here. And yes, expert opinions matter. Whether they're reputable ie. legitimatized by their peers is something else entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 6 minutes ago, Super19 said: I don't think anyone is trying to reduce 75 years of conflict into 1 tweet. These tweets or whatever are to just point out the wrongs - the US is backing and supporting Israel in this conflict, and these tweets are pointing out the wrongs, and thus the moral outrage there is.. that countries like US and Canada (which are supposed to be about truth and justice) are actually supporting war crimes. No we are supporting our allies. Its amazing how little that means to some. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Just now, Canuckle said: Well, when you're writing dissertations and your peer reviewed papers are being published in scholarly journals, it's usually a pretty good sign. Those are the people I'm referring to as experts. Because they by and large are. Sure if the degree is relevant, and they have on the ground knowledge, and we know their bias. Just now, Canuckle said: I take my medical advice from the experts in their prospective fields as well. Don't you? Not sure why this would be any different. Of course you can find outliers to most anything in life, and a healthy of dose of skeptism is never a bad thing, but we know the score here. And yes, expert opinions matter. Whether they're reputable ie. legitimatized by their peers is something else entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, Super19 said: This is not a schoolground fight where we are helping our younger bro, defend first ask questions later. This is humanity. Do not stand for supporting and backing war crimes. Because life is the most precious thing of all, and when international war crimes are being committed, it's not time to tell our ally "you have no red lines"... you stick it to them straight. Truth and justice. We have mechanisms for handling war crimes accusations. Abandoning your allies isn't one of those. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckle Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Sure if the degree is relevant, and they have on the ground knowledge, and we know their bias. Of course their areas of focus and subsequent field knowledge would be relevant. Not like I'm talking about academics with docorates in Fine Arts, Design, or Engineering here. Lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckle Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, Bob Long said: We have mechanisms for handling war crimes accusations. Abandoning your allies isn't one of those. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bob Long said: No we are supporting our allies. Its amazing how little that means to some. Supporting allies that are committing genocide is not a position i think most educated / well informed canadians can support. I want to live in a country that supports equality, freedom, peace, respect of all others regardless of ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender or religion. Also so proud to be from a country that is addressing truth and reconciliation with our first nations people. Never too late to fix a wrong. Edited November 7, 2023 by moosehead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 13 minutes ago, Canuckle said: We have dealt with the history of this conflict in this thread and a couple on the old board. This thread is about what happened a month ago. What is Isreal supposed to do about the events of October the 7th ? How are they meant combat a terror group that uses innocent people as shields ? Their own people who they use as pawns. I would be for bringing them to conventional justice as we know it, however as we know this is impossible. I would like to believe I could forgive someone that killed someone I love however I still would want them brought to justice. I used to see this conflict in simple terms however it is far from simple. I remember reading somewhere, an SS officer mocked a Jew that he was about to kill, stating you people need your own country/ nation however you are too weak to form one. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Canuckle said: Tantamount to some horrendous things alright, but as I stated above, you won't find many reputable academics that agree with the argument. And let's remember that there's a difference between the views and actions of extremist groups like a Westboro Baptist Church and the Christian population writ large. Are we to say that church and their flavour of ideology is representative of the whole? Hardly. Just as there's a difference between the views of a population and the policies of the state itself. Yes, the Israeli state is committing genocide against Palestinians. We cannot say the same for Palestinians against Israelis or even Israelis against Palestinians. Again, there is a difference here. And one of extreme importance at that. You won't see me arguing anything really that you said. I've been very vocal against Israeli policy and how the inevitable expansion and annexation would result in the loss of what was Palestine by roughly 2042 The bottom line is that we can't just wish for or excuse the systematic destruction, slaughter or degradation of human lives based on personal bias or we'll never evolve past the animals we are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: True. They are trained for this stuff though. Much more athletic than a German Shepherd. From what I understand they protect these dogs the same as humans. Mind you they are much more valuable to society than alot of humans. They absolutely do. There were several cases when IDF sent helicopters with full recovery contingent to rescue a wounded dog. They are family members. When they die - they get full military burial at a dedicated cemetery. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) He is quite the "Leader" Speaking to foreign ambassadors, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sought to frame the war in Gaza as a “global battle” against an “axis of terror” led by Iran. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/6/israel-hamas-live-news-communications-blackout-across-gaza Edited November 7, 2023 by moosehead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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