Hamas attacking Israel

[King Heffy]

9 minutes ago, eeeeeeeeergh said:

Normally I’d agree but what does Palestine have left to compromise with? Like what specifically do they have that they can give Israel in a compromise/negotiation? 
 

as far as I know it’s nothing. They have nothing Israel wants. Israel already got all the land it wanted, and freely takes more as desired (ongoing settlement building in the West Bank). 
 

 

Pretty sure Israel would be interested in the Hamas leadership being turned over for execution.

[eeeeeeeeergh]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Pretty sure Israel would be interested in the Hamas leadership being turned over for execution.

if in exchange, Israel withdraws from the illegal West Bank settlements, lifts the gaza blockade, and let’s a big chunk of people who were cleansed from greater Israel come home, the PA will turn hamas over before you can even blink 

 

Netanyahu will never go for that though. There’s a reason why, during the whole time hamas was silent, he was expediting the development of illegal settlements and blockaded random ordinary goods that weren’t weapons from reaching gaza. Netanyahu wants to drive the Palestinians into the sea, to colonize enough Palestinian owned homes to make it impossible for them to ever return. 

[Elias Pettersson]

18 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Yes Hamas terrorists have killed over 900 innocent civilians.  This is horrific.

 

Now we will see Israel kill likely 5000 innocent palestinians civilians.

 

This conflict is disgusting.  A peaceful compromise needs to be negotiated. 

 

The 5000 innocent Palestinians wouldn't be getting killed if the 900 innocent Israelis weren't killed over the weekend...

[Elias Pettersson]

12 minutes ago, eeeeeeeeergh said:

if in exchange, Israel withdraws from the illegal West Bank settlements, lifts the gaza blockade, and let’s a big chunk of people who were cleansed from greater Israel come home, the PA will turn hamas over before you can even blink 

 

Netanyahu will never go for that though. There’s a reason why, during the whole time hamas was silent, he was expediting the development of illegal settlements and blockaded random ordinary goods that weren’t weapons from reaching gaza. Netanyahu wants to drive the Palestinians into the sea, to colonize enough Palestinian owned homes to make it impossible for them to ever return. 

 

Isn't Egypt also a part of the Gaza blockade on the other side?  Why does Egypt also have a blockade?

[RomanPer]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

@RomanPer Looks like the police did show up. However they actually arrested the guy who was protesting the protesters…

 

 

 

Why am i not surprised? We had a vigil tonight at 6:30 by the Art Gallery and there were a few loud kids from the other side who were lucky to have police separating them from us. They were yelling their “allahu akbar” every time we would announce a minute of silence. Yelling “death to Jews” in Arabic. There were no police officers who spoke the language, but they promised they were recording everything and will have their Arabic-speaking officers review the tapes later. There are recordings of an earlier pro-Palestinian rally, with one guy shouting “USA, your time is coming, we are coming for you”. Very “peaceful” participants, clearly…

[eeeeeeeeergh]

15 minutes ago, Provost said:

Except they literally are…

 

They are bombarding the entire area and flattening apartment buildings.

 

It is one of the most densely populated regions on the planet.  Dropping bombs is targeting civilians.  Cutting off electricity, food, medicine, and making sure their hospitals can’t function while at the same time killing and injuring thousands of civilians is targeting civilians.

 

 

Yes.

 

Its just a modernized, more excusable version of the tactics that were used to remove and depopulate the residents to make room for european/north american migrants in 1948. 

 

 

The leader of Irgun was Menachem Begin, the first prime minister of Israel, who incidentally was given a nobel peace prize. 

 

This is, and always has been, about cleansing the land of arabs/the indigenous residents. Hamas has now given Israel the moral and political cover to depopulate Gaza. The bombings will continue until the arab worlds pressures Egypt to set up refugee camps inside egypts border, and Gaza residents will be forced to flee again. 

 

 

[the destroyer of worlds]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

The 5000 innocent Palestinians wouldn't be getting killed if the 900 innocent Israelis weren't killed over the weekend...

And those 900 Israeli would be alive if...

 

Really, this tit for tat is why we're here.  Someone has to stop this, and bombing Gaza into oblivion isn't going to end it.

[Provost]

2 minutes ago, eeeeeeeeergh said:

Yes.

 

Its just a modernized, more excusable version of the tactics that were used to remove and depopulate the residents to make room for european/north american migrants in 1948. 

 

 

The leader of Irgun was Menachem Begin, the first prime minister of Israel, who incidentally was given a nobel peace prize. 

 

This is, and always has been, about cleansing the land of arabs/the indigenous residents. Hamas has now given Israel the moral and political cover to depopulate Gaza. The bombings will continue until the arab worlds pressures Egypt to set up refugee camps inside egypts border, and Gaza residents will be forced to flee again. 

 

 

Presumably the hope from this attack was to bring enough attention that the rest of the Arab world joins in on a war.

[RomanPer]

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

The 5000 innocent Palestinians wouldn't be getting killed if the 900 innocent Israelis weren't killed over the weekend...

 

Not only that - innocent Palestinians were warned to leave their houses well in advance. These that chose the stay take their lives into their own hands.

[Playoff Beered]

1 hour ago, Sharpshooter said:

Israel isn’t targeting Palestinians though. 
 

That’s the difference. 
 

Also, HAMAS, isn’t any kind of political party that can be detained and brought up for war crimes. They’re a terrorist group at this point. 

 

They are a political party though and they did get elected.

[CBH1926]

8 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Why am i not surprised? We had a vigil tonight at 6:30 by the Art Gallery and there were a few loud kids from the other side who were lucky to have police separating them from us. They were yelling their “allahu akbar” every time we would announce a minute of silence. Yelling “death to Jews” in Arabic. There were no police officers who spoke the language, but they promised they were recording everything and will have their Arabic-speaking officers review the tapes later. There are recordings of an earlier pro-Palestinian rally, with one guy shouting “USA, your time is coming, we are coming for you”. Very “peaceful” participants, clearly…

Not much different than what happened in Malmo, Berlin, Birmingham etc. and other European cities.

 

[moosehead]

5 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Not only that - innocent Palestinians were warned to leave their houses well in advance. These that chose the stay take their lives into their own hands.

 

Really ?

 

No strangers to war with Israel, many Gazans are sheltering in their homes, with the vast majority lacking access to bunkers.

 

The territory is one of the most densely populated places on earth, where some 2 million people live in an area of 140 square miles.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/08/middleeast/palestine-israel-hamas-gaza-conflict-intl/index.html

[eeeeeeeeergh]

15 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Isn't Egypt also a part of the Gaza blockade on the other side?  Why does Egypt also have a blockade?

 

Egypt doesnt have a blockade - Rafah is open. But its a single point of entry. 7/8 of the border crossings are with Israel, including all the border crossings for commercial goods. Im confused why I keep hearing this line about Egypt having a blockade?

 

Right now - the rafah crossing is literally the only way for food, water, and medical supplies to get into Gaza. 

 

Its also tiny, and not even remotely designed for commercial goods. Theres no way for all the commercial trade that 2 million people in Gaza depend on can be done through Rafah. 

[eeeeeeeeergh]

10 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Not only that - innocent Palestinians were warned to leave their houses well in advance. These that chose the stay take their lives into their own hands.

Leave and go where exactly? 

 

The entire of Gaza is being bombarded and unlike Israeli settlers, Palestinians cant leave Gaza. 

[Elias Pettersson]

12 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

And those 900 Israeli would be alive if...

 

Really, this tit for tat is why we're here.  Someone has to stop this, and bombing Gaza into oblivion isn't going to end it.

 

Who exactly is going to stop this?  The US?  The US is on the side of Israel, they just moved the largest aircraft carrier in the world into the eastern Mediterranean Sea.  

 

At the end of the day, Israel has the right to defend themselves.  This was a terrorist attack on their people, similar to 9/11.  Last I checked the US went in and bombed Afghanistan into oblivion and then when they didn't get enough action over there they went and bombed the shit out of Iraq too...

[eeeeeeeeergh]

14 minutes ago, Provost said:

Presumably the hope from this attack was to bring enough attention that the rest of the Arab world joins in on a war.

They have to know that was never going to happen. The Arab world has been normalizing relations with Israel, they're not going to give that up now. 

 

The only thing I can think of is- Hamas wants Israel to retaliate, to kill another 10000 civilians to boost Hamas recruitment and support. 

[CBH1926]

17 minutes ago, Provost said:

Presumably the hope from this attack was to bring enough attention that the rest of the Arab world joins in on a war.

With Saudi Arabia normalizing relations with Israel, one of the few countries left behind is Iran.

Hamas could care less what happens to the civilians, the more Israel kills the better.

 

Just look at the U.S, Israel and KSA coalition, I don’t think I have ever seen coalition so diametrically different.

But common interests drew them together.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, eeeeeeeeergh said:

 

Egypt doesnt have a blockade - Rafah is open. But its a single point of entry. 7/8 of the border crossings are with Israel, including all the border crossings for commercial goods. Im confused why I keep hearing this line about Egypt having a blockade?

 

Right now - the rafah crossing is literally the only way for food, water, and medical supplies to get into Gaza. 

 

Its also tiny, and not even remotely designed for commercial goods. Theres no way for all the commercial trade that 2 million people in Gaza depend on can be done through Rafah. 

 

I was told that Rafah is blocked for security reasons and has been since 2007.  Where are you getting the information that it is completely open?  Was it just opened recently?

 

It's obviously closed right now...

[Playoff Beered]

 

[eeeeeeeeergh]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I was told that Rafah is blocked for security reasons and has been since 2007.  Where are you getting the information that it is completely open?  Was it just opened recently?

 

It's obviously closed right now...

It’s not and hasn’t been, it’s how I got into Palestine lol 

[Ilunga]

4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

My friend, most conflict in the world is a result of religion. This goes back thousands of years and can never be changed. 
 

Religion is supposed to make man peaceful and loving. Unfortunately it has done the opposite effect. Humans killing humans like savage animals. 
 

Do you think this will ever end my friend?  I don’t personally…

 

Easy answer to the problem, stop calling and treating it like sacred ground.

It isn't. 

 

And no I don't believe it will stop.

As I stated right at the start of the Ukraine thread the better part of 2 years ago, we were/ are at a crucial point in history/ world geopolitics.

I can see the China - India conflict escalating at some point.

China and Taiwan.

Tensions in the middle east are rising.

The war in Ukraine has no end in sight.

Economically, here in Aus so many people are in " mortgage stress ", there is actually talk about the fact if a large amount of people default on their home loans we are all in the $hit.

 

I have always been concerned about the state of the world, however now I am a parent with a 10 year old beautiful boy I live in fear of what the future holds for him.

[Junkyard Dog]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I was told that Rafah is blocked for security reasons and has been since 2007.  Where are you getting the information that it is completely open?  Was it just opened recently?

 

It's obviously closed right now...

 

It was opened indefinitely for the 1st time in years in 2021. Until then it was on and off or letting in people at limited capacity. Egypt and Israel have a peace treaty and it isn't in Egypt's best interest to open the border to Gaza. Sinai is already the biggest hotbed of insurgency in Egypt and they want to try to keep them as separated from Hamas humanly possible. Both Israel and Egypt seem to be in agreement of that. Israel has an agreement with Egypt that all goods must go through their checkpoint first. 

 

 

[eeeeeeeeergh]

4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

My friend, most conflict in the world is a result of religion. This goes back thousands of years and can never be changed. 
 

Religion is supposed to make man peaceful and loving. Unfortunately it has done the opposite effect. Humans killing humans like savage animals. 
 

Do you think this will ever end my friend?  I don’t personally…

This isn’t a religious conflict. Israel wants it to be one because it’s the only way to justify depopulating locals to establish your own state. 
 

Prior to 1948, the majority Muslim population lived in relative harmony with the minority Jewish and Christian populations. 
 

Islam has no natural conflict with Judaism or Christianity. It’s remarkably in line with both, in values and in politics. Before 9/11, Muslims voted overwhelmingly republican, including George Bush’s first term in office. 
 

The ongoing massacre of Arabs and North Africans by western states since the Cold War has turned the Arab world against the west. Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine.. and so many more. Millions of civilians killed, they’ve had enough. 

[the destroyer of worlds]

28 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Who exactly is going to stop this?  The US?  The US is on the side of Israel, they just moved the largest aircraft carrier in the world into the eastern Mediterranean Sea.  

 

At the end of the day, Israel has the right to defend themselves.  This was a terrorist attack on their people, similar to 9/11.  Last I checked the US went in and bombed Afghanistan into oblivion and then when they didn't get enough action over there they went and bombed the shit out of Iraq too...

Sort of my point.  The Israelis can bomb Gaza into oblivion, and it won't end this.  Those bombs are just radicalizing the next generation.  History repeating.  And those bombs aren't just killing the guilty.  IT's also destroying infrastructure that the innocents somehow are going to have to replace.  NO one wins, and neither of the actual combatants are innocent.

 

War is war and hell is hell.  Of the 2, war is worse.  No innocent bystanders in hell. 

[Sharpshooter]

39 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

They are a political party though and they did get elected.

Palestine is more than the Gaza Strip. 
 

The West Bank would be more representative of a majority of Palestinians than a militant group residing in the Strip under the backing of Iran. 
 

Also, there’s a political and military wing of HAMAS, that hides amongst and uses each other at their leisure to serve themselves, and not the average Palestinian within the Strip.