Hamas attacking Israel

[Satchmo]

3 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Israel seems to think its by destroying most Palestinians. And in one month they got over 10k kills with the world watching. Over 4000 of them, children.

Seems like Israel is trying to kill as many Palestinians as they can swiftly get away with.

How else is there this many Palestinians dead? Why are there this many Palestinians dead? What is Nentanyahus excuse, for this many children, women, elderly, palestenians, dead from his attacks?

I know you are likely to look at things based on earlier dates but I have a feeling Oct 7 provides a lot of answers as to why Bibi & Israel are doing what they're doing.

 

I know you are pissed off at Israel.   How pissed off do you think Israel was on Oct7?

[moosehead]

4 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

They should have done that on Oct 7th, its too late now.

 

Never too late too late to stop murdering children. 

[Satchmo]

4 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Israel with 10,000 Palestinians  now  killed has created probably 50,000 new Hamas members as well are ruined Israel's support across the world. 

 

All in the name of re-election for Likud.    Politics is a dirty game. 

All this was to guarantee a re-election?

[moosehead]

5 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Assuming Hamas is correct in saying they have 50,000 standing army: how many of those ten thousand do you think are Hamas forces?

 

Maybe 2000-3000 max.

 

But probably has created 50,000 more Hamas members.  The math is working against Israel government state sanctioned killing of innocent  women and children. 

[Sharpshooter]

1 minute ago, moosehead said:

 

Never too late too late to stop murdering children. 

For both sides. 

[moosehead]

Just now, Sharpshooter said:

For both sides. 

 

Yes, of course. 

[moosehead]

7 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

All this was to guarantee a re-election?

 

You don't think Likud politicians are concerned about getting reelected ? Pensions ?   paying for their kids piano lessons 

Edited November 9, 2023 by moosehead

[Riddikulus]

2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Israel cannot afford to care whether Palestinians or Iranians hate them. Their survival is at stake. Iran has to worry more about a pre-emptive Israeli strike on their nuke facilities than Iran attacking them. What are the Iranians going to do march an army across Iraq and Syria to attack Israel? Not much chance of that. Using Palestinians lives is much cheaper.  

So lets see here, on one hand you state that Iran isn't much of a threat. Just about everyone here has recognized that the Sunni and Shiite powers in the region don't trust one another. Israel are strong by themselves and have the backing of the West. Threats from Lebanon, Yemen are lol worthy. There is no conceivable scenario where Israel's "survival is at stake". While Hamas and terrorism is a threat to Israelis, they don't even have a shot of destroying Israel. If anyone's survival is at stake it is the Palestinians as the radicals in the Israeli government actually have the means to make good on their threats of turning Gaza into rubble.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Riddikulus

[Satchmo]

Just now, moosehead said:

 

You don't think Likud politicians are concerned about getting reelected ? Pensions ?  

I'm sure they are interested in both things.  In Gaza, Likud is doing Likud things in the way Lukid things are usually done.   Trying to draw a direct link to campaign strategy is a bit of stretch.  

 

Forgive me, but I'm beginning to think you often connect things based on a forced connection.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

7 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

Culture has a lot to do with it imo. Democracies tend not to go to war with each other, they look for ways to make more money. Is that selfish? Sure maybe but I'd rather fight it out in a marketplace than a war.

 

Much of the hate in the ME is culture based, but there's only one true democracy there. That's the big threat Israel poses to the kingdoms and religion led countries.

 

My opinion is many ME cultures are simply more vulnerable to being controlled.

 

Culture is part; call to arms using Allahu Akbar, God is Great, might be the single most abused slogan in the world.  Exceeding F' You; it has come to mean something I thoroughly different than it is intended by its religion. A call to kill because our religion is more important than yours! My opinion. 

 

This is also socio economic. 

 

It does relates to weaker representation, democracies. Being 2knd world & 3rd world nations in most cases, there is not a great path to a successful, even a peaceful or happy life for many?  So many people are internally oppressed; be it minorities being displaced and human trafficked. Women not allowed secondary education, to vote where there is a vote? To street vendors having to deal with violence. See Baghdad, Damascus, Khartoum, Gaza city, Sanaa in Yemen, secular violence in India, Pakistan. People join gangs as a means of both security & survival. Also opportunity, more powerful gangs make money, control the streets.  Whole countries by gang / militia driven regimes & autocrats who control them in the most severely struck nations.

 

Including Gaza.

 

Canuckle, our history buff, might take note 3 x As Many ethnic minorities were displaced in Yemen in the last three years.  Than were displaced in Palestine from 1948 to present. Why that 'genocide' is less important is beyond me? That Turkey has displaced 5 times as many Kurds, Iraq twice, and Iraq 6 times as many Christians? Azerbaijan an equal number; Syria has allied & fought Kurds.  Saddam Hussein gassed them.  As many as 3 million Sudanese are in refugee camps any given year, 1/2 million die of starvation. Libya, Egypt, Morocco, Lebanon have all had civil war for 'political' control. 500,000 dead in Syria, 2/3rds of which were civilian. All in our generation, much in the last twenty, even 5 years. Much / most in conflicts by groups supporting & allied with Hamas!    

 

For some reason?  All of them want Jews dead & removed from Israel.  

 

A common belief "their'' God is more important than anyone else's is one common theme.  The gangs & militias, warlords who rule these places second. Corruptly, many leaders billionaires while people starve.  Corruption is actually more rampant than Allahu Abar! An overwhelmingly important 2knd theme where ethnic cleansing is so far more prevalent than by the hands of Jews! Perversion of religion still their common call? Crimes by Israel duly noted & acknowledged runs a distant third as to why this crisis exists to my judgement. They absolutely exist & a Western World needs to help police Israel from such crimes. 

 

Who is going to makes streets safer, steer ME nations, populations in hundreds of millions away from militia controlled societies? Even Kingdoms are safer, albeit no shining example. These militia's & autocrats will & have also been cleansing other ethnic groups.

 

Rule of law will have to exist for the benefit of all cultures. Including Jewish.  

[Alflives]

16 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Never too late too late to stop murdering children. 

We bloody well should never start doing stuff like that. Doesn’t that make more sense than, “it’s never too late to stop”?

 

[Yoshiyoshi]

7 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Never too late too late to stop murdering children. 

Tell that to Hamas, stop trying to use children as shields. But that wouldnt fit with your narrative then. Ive watched your posts for a while now, you always word things to imply that Israel is intentionally targeting children and try to generate outrage against them and completely ignore the actions of Hamas using places that would incur civilian casualties to launch attacks from, guaranteeing that civilians die when Israel responds. You also ignore that Israel has ordered civilians to evacuate the northern area so anyone staying behind is passively aiding Hamas too. Israel has done some shitty things in the past and the Palestinians do deserve better, but everything happening post Oct 7 is all on Hamas and the Palestinians

[Taxi]

2 hours ago, moosehead said:

 

Yes definately. More and more people are making that individual decision to boycott products /services from Israel or any country that engages in Oppression / Occupation or racism in government policies. 

 

I think its quite the opposite. Prior to Oct 7, a lot people were giving Hamas the benefit of the doubt and questioned Israel's actions on the grounds that Hamas could never cause any real damage to them. After Oct 7, we know  that not to be true, and that Hamas is very much a threat.

 

Considering the level of devastation in Gaza, very few people have been speaking out against Israel. Typically, the world comes down on Israel hard after about a week of bombing and pressures them to stop. This time has been different.

 

The only people speaking out are the ones who had already made up their minds about Israel beforehand. The kind of people Israel was never going to woo to their side. 

[Bob Long]

12 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

My opinion is many ME cultures are simply more vulnerable to being controlled.

 

Culture is part; call to arms using Allahu Akbar, God is Great, might be the single most abused slogan in the world.  Exceeding F' You; it has come to mean something I thoroughly different than it is intended by its religion. A call to kill because our religion is more important than yours! My opinion. 

 

This is also socio economic. 

 

It does relates to weaker representation, democracies. Being 2knd world & 3rd world nations in most cases, there is not a great path to a successful, even a peaceful or happy life for many?  So many people are internally oppressed; be it minorities being displaced and human trafficked. Women not allowed secondary education, to vote where there is a vote? To street vendors having to deal with violence. See Baghdad, Damascus, Khartoum, Gaza city, Sanaa in Yemen, secular violence in India, Pakistan. People join gangs as a means of both security & survival. Also opportunity, more powerful gangs make money, control the streets.  Whole countries by gang / militia driven regimes & autocrats who control them in the most severely struck nations.

 

Including Gaza.

 

Canuckle, our history buff, might take note 3 x As Many ethnic minorities were displaced in Yemen in the last three years.  Than were displaced in Palestine from 1948 to present. Why that 'genocide' is less important is beyond me? That Turkey has displaced 5 times as many Kurds, Iraq twice, and Iraq 6 times as many Christians? Azerbaijan an equal number; Syria has allied & fought Kurds.  Saddam Hussein gassed them.  As many as 3 million Sudanese are in refugee camps any given year, 1/2 million die of starvation. Libya, Egypt, Morocco, Lebanon have all had civil war for 'political' control. 500,000 dead in Syria, 2/3rds of which were civilian. All in our generation, much in the last twenty, even 5 years. Much / most in conflicts by groups supporting & allied with Hamas!    

 

For some reason?  All of them want Jews dead & removed from Israel.  

 

A common belief "their'' God is more important than anyone else's is one common theme.  The gangs & militias, warlords who rule these places second. Corruptly, many leaders billionaires while people starve.  Corruption is actually more rampant than Allahu Abar! An overwhelmingly important 2knd theme where ethnic cleansing is so far more prevalent than by the hands of Jews! Perversion of religion still their common call? Crimes by Israel duly noted & acknowledged runs a distant third as to why this crisis exists to my judgement. They absolutely exist & a Western World needs to help police Israel from such crimes. 

 

Who is going to makes streets safer, steer ME nations, populations in hundreds of millions away from militia controlled societies? Even Kingdoms are safer, albeit no shining example. These militia's & autocrats will & have also been cleansing other ethnic groups.

 

Rule of law will have to exist for the benefit of all cultures. Including Jewish.  

 

I'm honestly not sure what our historian is doing but your post is excellent.

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

Tell that to Hamas, stop trying to use children as shields. But that wouldnt fit with your narrative then. Ive watched your posts for a while now, you always word things to imply that Israel is intentionally targeting children and try to generate outrage against them and completely ignore the actions of Hamas using places that would incur civilian casualties to launch attacks from, guaranteeing that civilians die when Israel responds. You also ignore that Israel has ordered civilians to evacuate the northern area so anyone staying behind is passively aiding Hamas too. Israel has done some shitty things in the past and the Palestinians do deserve better, but everything happening post Oct 7 is all on Hamas and the Palestinians

I agree but I'd like to point out that doctors, nurses and emergency workers are staying.  Some people can't be moved and their family stays with them.  As we've seen in Ukraine, some people are just going to stay.

 

They may be passively assisting but I can understand why.  ( I guess I can't fully understand those people who just stay.)

[Yoshiyoshi]

35 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

I agree but I'd like to point out that doctors, nurses and emergency workers are staying.  Some people can't be moved and their family stays with them.  As we've seen in Ukraine, some people are just going to stay.

 

They may be passively assisting but I can understand why.  ( I guess I can't fully understand those people who just stay.)

I remember those news stories about people refusing to move. I understand that some couldn't due to health reasons, and i can understand aid workers for them staying, but anyone else who chose to ignore the evacuation order are responsible for putting themselves in danger.

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

t take note 3 x As Many ethnic minorities were displaced in Yemen in the last three years.  Than were displaced in Palestine from 1948 to present. Why that 'genocide' is less important is beyond me? That Turkey has displaced 5 times as many Kurds, Iraq twice, and Iraq 6 times as many Christians? Azerbaijan an equal number; Syria has allied & fought Kurds.  Saddam Hussein gassed them.  As many as 3 million Sudanese are in refugee camps any given year, 1/2 million die of starvation. Libya, Egypt, Morocco, Lebanon have all had civil war for 'political' control. 500,000 dead in Syria, 2/3rds of which were civilian. All in our generation, much in the last twenty, even 5 years. Much / most in conflicts by groups supporting & allied with Hamas!    

 

For some reason?  All of them want Jews dead & removed from Israel.  

Cuz it is easier for some people to hate Jewish Israeli's than it is to hate other people. That much is obvious. 

[CBH1926]

9 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

its what I find kind of ironic about Chomsky. He blasts Israel for the same things he gives places like Qatar a pass on. 

 

The old Noam used to sing praises about Paul Pot regime in Cambodia.

Called images of Muslims in Serb camps fake news.

Not to mention collected paycheck from MIT for decades, that school has done more for U.S military technology than any other school in the nation. 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, CBH1926 said:

The old Noam used to sing praises about Paul Pot regime in Cambodia.

Called images of Muslims in Serb camps fake news.

Not to mention collected paycheck from MIT for decades, that school has done more for U.S military technology than any other school in the nation. 

 

But academics agree, so....

[CBH1926]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

My opinion is many ME cultures are simply more vulnerable to being controlled.

 

Culture is part; call to arms using Allahu Akbar, God is Great, might be the single most abused slogan in the world.  Exceeding F' You; it has come to mean something I thoroughly different than it is intended by its religion. A call to kill because our religion is more important than yours! My opinion. 

 

This is also socio economic. 

 

It does relates to weaker representation, democracies. Being 2knd world & 3rd world nations in most cases, there is not a great path to a successful, even a peaceful or happy life for many?  So many people are internally oppressed; be it minorities being displaced and human trafficked. Women not allowed secondary education, to vote where there is a vote? To street vendors having to deal with violence. See Baghdad, Damascus, Khartoum, Gaza city, Sanaa in Yemen, secular violence in India, Pakistan. People join gangs as a means of both security & survival. Also opportunity, more powerful gangs make money, control the streets.  Whole countries by gang / militia driven regimes & autocrats who control them in the most severely struck nations.

 

Including Gaza.

 

Canuckle, our history buff, might take note 3 x As Many ethnic minorities were displaced in Yemen in the last three years.  Than were displaced in Palestine from 1948 to present. Why that 'genocide' is less important is beyond me? That Turkey has displaced 5 times as many Kurds, Iraq twice, and Iraq 6 times as many Christians? Azerbaijan an equal number; Syria has allied & fought Kurds.  Saddam Hussein gassed them.  As many as 3 million Sudanese are in refugee camps any given year, 1/2 million die of starvation. Libya, Egypt, Morocco, Lebanon have all had civil war for 'political' control. 500,000 dead in Syria, 2/3rds of which were civilian. All in our generation, much in the last twenty, even 5 years. Much / most in conflicts by groups supporting & allied with Hamas!    

 

For some reason?  All of them want Jews dead & removed from Israel.  

 

A common belief "their'' God is more important than anyone else's is one common theme.  The gangs & militias, warlords who rule these places second. Corruptly, many leaders billionaires while people starve.  Corruption is actually more rampant than Allahu Abar! An overwhelmingly important 2knd theme where ethnic cleansing is so far more prevalent than by the hands of Jews! Perversion of religion still their common call? Crimes by Israel duly noted & acknowledged runs a distant third as to why this crisis exists to my judgement. They absolutely exist & a Western World needs to help police Israel from such crimes. 

 

Who is going to makes streets safer, steer ME nations, populations in hundreds of millions away from militia controlled societies? Even Kingdoms are safer, albeit no shining example. These militia's & autocrats will & have also been cleansing other ethnic groups.

 

Rule of law will have to exist for the benefit of all cultures. Including Jewish.  

Excellent post!

[Junkyard Dog]

2 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

My opinion is many ME cultures are simply more vulnerable to being controlled.

 

Culture is part; call to arms using Allahu Akbar, God is Great, might be the single most abused slogan in the world.  Exceeding F' You; it has come to mean something I thoroughly different than it is intended by its religion. A call to kill because our religion is more important than yours! My opinion. 

 

This is also socio economic. 

 

It does relates to weaker representation, democracies. Being 2knd world & 3rd world nations in most cases, there is not a great path to a successful, even a peaceful or happy life for many?  So many people are internally oppressed; be it minorities being displaced and human trafficked. Women not allowed secondary education, to vote where there is a vote? To street vendors having to deal with violence. See Baghdad, Damascus, Khartoum, Gaza city, Sanaa in Yemen, secular violence in India, Pakistan. People join gangs as a means of both security & survival. Also opportunity, more powerful gangs make money, control the streets.  Whole countries by gang / militia driven regimes & autocrats who control them in the most severely struck nations.

 

Including Gaza.

 

Canuckle, our history buff, might take note 3 x As Many ethnic minorities were displaced in Yemen in the last three years.  Than were displaced in Palestine from 1948 to present. Why that 'genocide' is less important is beyond me? That Turkey has displaced 5 times as many Kurds, Iraq twice, and Iraq 6 times as many Christians? Azerbaijan an equal number; Syria has allied & fought Kurds.  Saddam Hussein gassed them.  As many as 3 million Sudanese are in refugee camps any given year, 1/2 million die of starvation. Libya, Egypt, Morocco, Lebanon have all had civil war for 'political' control. 500,000 dead in Syria, 2/3rds of which were civilian. All in our generation, much in the last twenty, even 5 years. Much / most in conflicts by groups supporting & allied with Hamas!    

 

For some reason?  All of them want Jews dead & removed from Israel.  

 

A common belief "their'' God is more important than anyone else's is one common theme.  The gangs & militias, warlords who rule these places second. Corruptly, many leaders billionaires while people starve.  Corruption is actually more rampant than Allahu Abar! An overwhelmingly important 2knd theme where ethnic cleansing is so far more prevalent than by the hands of Jews! Perversion of religion still their common call? Crimes by Israel duly noted & acknowledged runs a distant third as to why this crisis exists to my judgement. They absolutely exist & a Western World needs to help police Israel from such crimes. 

 

Who is going to makes streets safer, steer ME nations, populations in hundreds of millions away from militia controlled societies? Even Kingdoms are safer, albeit no shining example. These militia's & autocrats will & have also been cleansing other ethnic groups.

 

Rule of law will have to exist for the benefit of all cultures. Including Jewish.  

Good post but to add context in regards to the religion aspect of it.
 

Muslims, Jews and Christians all fundamentally follow the same god. They’re all Abrahamic religions. 
 

They just each share different ways/beliefs/relationships with god. 
 

There’s some irony to be had here considering despite that fact these religions also have fought each other and committed atrocity throughout history. Though I guess when another religion comes in claiming to be the true religion of your god then you might have significant issue with that. 
 

What a world we live in. 

[Sharpshooter]

2 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

My opinion is many ME cultures are simply more vulnerable to being controlled.

 

Culture is part; call to arms using Allahu Akbar, God is Great, might be the single most abused slogan in the world.  Exceeding F' You; it has come to mean something I thoroughly different than it is intended by its religion. A call to kill because our religion is more important than yours! My opinion. 

 

This is also socio economic. 

 

It does relates to weaker representation, democracies. Being 2knd world & 3rd world nations in most cases, there is not a great path to a successful, even a peaceful or happy life for many?  So many people are internally oppressed; be it minorities being displaced and human trafficked. Women not allowed secondary education, to vote where there is a vote? To street vendors having to deal with violence. See Baghdad, Damascus, Khartoum, Gaza city, Sanaa in Yemen, secular violence in India, Pakistan. People join gangs as a means of both security & survival. Also opportunity, more powerful gangs make money, control the streets.  Whole countries by gang / militia driven regimes & autocrats who control them in the most severely struck nations.

 

Including Gaza.

 

Canuckle, our history buff, might take note 3 x As Many ethnic minorities were displaced in Yemen in the last three years.  Than were displaced in Palestine from 1948 to present. Why that 'genocide' is less important is beyond me? That Turkey has displaced 5 times as many Kurds, Iraq twice, and Iraq 6 times as many Christians? Azerbaijan an equal number; Syria has allied & fought Kurds.  Saddam Hussein gassed them.  As many as 3 million Sudanese are in refugee camps any given year, 1/2 million die of starvation. Libya, Egypt, Morocco, Lebanon have all had civil war for 'political' control. 500,000 dead in Syria, 2/3rds of which were civilian. All in our generation, much in the last twenty, even 5 years. Much / most in conflicts by groups supporting & allied with Hamas!    

 

For some reason?  All of them want Jews dead & removed from Israel.  

 

A common belief "their'' God is more important than anyone else's is one common theme.  The gangs & militias, warlords who rule these places second. Corruptly, many leaders billionaires while people starve.  Corruption is actually more rampant than Allahu Abar! An overwhelmingly important 2knd theme where ethnic cleansing is so far more prevalent than by the hands of Jews! Perversion of religion still their common call? Crimes by Israel duly noted & acknowledged runs a distant third as to why this crisis exists to my judgement. They absolutely exist & a Western World needs to help police Israel from such crimes. 

 

Who is going to makes streets safer, steer ME nations, populations in hundreds of millions away from militia controlled societies? Even Kingdoms are safer, albeit no shining example. These militia's & autocrats will & have also been cleansing other ethnic groups.

 

Rule of law will have to exist for the benefit of all cultures. Including Jewish.  

So shines an excellent post in a weary thread. 
 

[King Heffy]

43 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Good post but to add context in regards to the religion aspect of it.
 

Muslims, Jews and Christians all fundamentally follow the same god. They’re all Abrahamic religions. 
 

They just each share different ways/beliefs/relationships with god. 
 

There’s some irony to be had here considering despite that fact these religions also have fought each other and committed atrocity throughout history. Though I guess when another religion comes in claiming to be the true religion of your god then you might have significant issue with that. 
 

What a world we live in. 

And then you have further issues with Shia-Sunni and Protestent-Catholic conflict within those religions.

[Optimist Prime]

8 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

And then you have further issues with Shia-Sunni and Protestent-Catholic conflict within those religions.

Oct 7th was so bad Ultra Orthodox Hasidic Jews have enlisted en masse for the first time in the modern age. 

[moosehead]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Oct 7th was so bad Ultra Orthadox Hasidic Jews have enlisted en masse for the first time in the modern age. 

 

I always find it interesting very religious people signing up to murder innocent civilians.     Odd. 

 

But i guess Hamas murderers might also consider themselves religious....

 

Very strange world we live in. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by moosehead