King Heffy Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 Just now, moosehead said: Yes the NDP is clearly against oppression, occupation and ethnic cleansing taking place in Gaza. Good on the NDP. What do you think about the video Sam posted with the Israelis creating a humanitarian corridor protecting civilians from Hamas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, King Heffy said: What do you think about the video Sam posted with the Israelis creating a humanitarian corridor protecting civilians from Hamas? Both sides are releasing all kinds of propaganda in an attempt to gain world support...... Increased support for killing innocent civilians is not likely to happen though. Israels window for this oppressive collective punishment is rapidly closing due to declining world support. Edited November 9, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 8 minutes ago, moosehead said: Both sides are releasing all kinds of propaganda in an attempt to gain world support...... Increased support for killing innocent civilians is not likely to happen though. Israels window for this oppressive collective punishment is rapidly closing due to declining world support. The best way forward after Israel roots out Hamas in northern Gaza is likely to turn it into a DMZ with UN peacekeepers. That can't happen with Hamas members alive in the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 30 minutes ago, King Heffy said: What do you think about the video Sam posted with the Israelis creating a humanitarian corridor protecting civilians from Hamas? it doesn't matter, the NDP could have included a vote to have Santa visit Burnaby first this year, it will carry as much weight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, King Heffy said: The best way forward after Israel roots out Hamas in northern Gaza is likely to turn it into a DMZ with UN peacekeepers. That can't happen with Hamas members alive in the area. Rooting out urban terrorists is not possible. Most Hamas soldiers will now be dressed as civilians and now slipped back into civilian living units..... saving themselves for another day... another attack at a later date. This is why this ground invasion is more of a political stunt... than any kind of a long term solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, King Heffy said: The best way forward after Israel roots out Hamas in northern Gaza is likely to turn it into a DMZ with UN peacekeepers. That can't happen with Hamas members alive in the area. I kind of suspect once the remaining 65 square KM's of northern Gaza are cleared of Hamas, as best as the IDF can determine: at that time my guess is Humanitarian aid, water and electricity will be brought to some places there, and thee civilians will be brought north from the middle of Gaza, to allow the job of riding Gaza of Hamas to continue. Likely the massive airstrikes will be over now, but still pinpoint bombings of military targets (yes even though they choose to use human shields) will likely continue in limited quantity. Either Israel is content to clean out the Northern end of the strip or this is one of three bigger phases for ground troops work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 Just now, Optimist Prime said: I kind of suspect once the remaining 65 square KM's of northern Gaza are cleared of Hamas, as best as the IDF can determine: at that time my guess is Humanitarian aid, water and electricity will be brought to some places there, and thee civilians will be brought north from the middle of Gaza, to allow the job of riding Gaza of Hamas to continue. Likely the massive airstrikes will be over now, but still pinpoint bombings of military targets (yes even though they choose to use human shields) will likely continue in limited quantity. Either Israel is content to clean out the Northern end of the strip or this is one of three bigger phases for ground troops work. So basically the Hamas terrorists dressed as civilians will be allowed to re-enter North Gaza and resume their activities... Makes this current action and civilian losses seem so futile and pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Optimist Prime Posted November 9, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, moosehead said: Rooting out urban terrorists is not possible. Most Hamas soldiers will now be dressed as civilians and now slipped back into civilian living units..... saving themselves for another day... another attack at a later date. This is why this ground invasion is more of a political stunt... than any kind of a long term solution. You are certainly doing an admirable job of boiling the frog of this discussion. "israel must cease bombings and do it the old fashioned way with soldiiers in harms way"...israel does that..."This is not possible, Israel can't defeat Hamas by killing them by the hundreds, it is a political stunt".... is there a position you would like to take that isn't fluid? 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: You are certainly doing an admirable job of boiling the frog of this discussion. "israel must cease bombings and do it the old fashioned way with soldiiers in harms way"...israel does that..."This is not possible, Israel can't defeat Hamas by killing them by the hundreds, it is a political stunt".... is there a position you would like to take that isn't fluid? Life is fluid. My position is against the harming of innocent civilians. Establishing long term peace in the region. Edited November 9, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, moosehead said: So basically the Hamas terrorists dressed as civilians will be allowed to re-enter North Gaza and resume their activities... Makes this current action and civilian losses seem so futile and pointless. removing thousands of armed combatants, thousands of missile stockpiles, and thousands of guns and millions of rounds of amo is itself a great way to stop Hamas ability to wage war. Taking out the leadership and 20 years of tunnels at the same time while arranging for peaceful oversight of the region and hopefully eventual elections will lead to peace and prosperity for the people you are so worried for. Sadly, we all agree it is terrible, this all comes with some civilian costs, it is unavoidable, and horrible all at the same time, because Hamas has made it so that leaving it all in place opens everyone to more pain and suffering with zero peace and prosperity for the folks you are concerned about. 1 minute ago, moosehead said: Life is fluid. My position is against the harming of innocent civilians. Establishing long term peace in the region. in your version of that, does israel exist? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: removing thousands of armed combatants, thousands of missile stockpiles, and thousands of guns and millions of rounds of amo is itself a great way to stop Hamas ability to wage war. Taking out the leadership and 20 years of tunnels at the same time while arranging for peaceful oversight of the region and hopefully eventual elections will lead to peace and prosperity for the people you are so worried for. Sadly, we all agree it is terrible, this all comes with some civilian costs, it is unavoidable, and horrible all at the same time, because Hamas has made it so that leaving it all in place opens everyone to more pain and suffering with zero peace and prosperity for the folks you are concerned about. in your version of that, does israel exist? Of course. I am 100% for Israel as a state. Hopefully as a state that has full rights for all its minorities and economic prosperity / equal property rights, / equality , quality education for all its citizens. Do you think maybe Hamas will hide many of their weapons before this invasion. Seems likely to me. Destroying the tunnels will be useful... but i am assuming they can just be rebuilt later.... This invasion may provide temporary reduction in Hamas operating ability... but no it is not a long term solution. Hamas will be back unless long term peace can be negotiated. Edited November 9, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshiyoshi Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, moosehead said: Rooting out urban terrorists is not possible. Most Hamas soldiers will now be dressed as civilians and now slipped back into civilian living units..... saving themselves for another day... another attack at a later date. This is why this ground invasion is more of a political stunt... than any kind of a long term solution. Just now, moosehead said: So basically the Hamas terrorists dressed as civilians will be allowed to re-enter North Gaza and resume their activities... Makes this current action and civilian losses seem so futile and pointless. It is neither pointless nor futile. Just because something is extremely difficult does not mean it cannot be done or should not be done. Some will get away, they always do, but many of the ones who are known will be caught or killed. Resources that Hamas has will be destroyed or captured, it will take them a long time to recover if they are even able to. Judging by your post history you seem to think that Israel should not retaliate at all for the attack on Oct 7th and instead be held responsible for it but it doesnt matter what Israel may have done in the past it does not justify what Hamas did on the 7th. There will be no peace as long as Hamas exists in Gaza now. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Yoshiyoshi said: It is neither pointless nor futile. Just because something is extremely difficult does not mean it cannot be done or should not be done. Some will get away, they always do, but many of the ones who are known will be caught or killed. Resources that Hamas has will be destroyed or captured, it will take them a long time to recover if they are even able to. Judging by your post history you seem to think that Israel should not retaliate at all for the attack on Oct 7th and instead be held responsible for it but it doesnt matter what Israel may have done in the past it does not justify what Hamas did on the 7th. There will be no peace as long as Hamas exists in Gaza now. OK keep on with your opinion. You are lucky to live in a free country that allows all citizens to have their own opinions and even protest if they want. My opinion is very different than yours. I look forward to both Israel and Palestinians both having a bright future filled with peace and equality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshiyoshi Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, moosehead said: OK keep on with your opinion. You are lucky to live in a free country that allows all citizens to have their own opinions and even protest if they want. My opinion is very different than yours. I look forward to both Israel and Palestinians both having a bright future filled with peace and equality. Me too, the first step to peace is digging Hamas out of their holes and recovering the hostages. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, moosehead said: Of course. I am 100% for Israel as a state. Hopefully as a state that has full rights for all its minorities and economic prosperity / equal property rights, / equality , quality education for all its citizens. Do you think maybe Hamas will hide many of their weapons before this invasion. Seems likely to me. Destroying the tunnels will be useful... but i am assuming they can just be rebuilt later.... This invasion may provide temporary reduction in Hamas operating ability... but no it is not a long term solution. Hamas will be back unless long term peace can be negotiated. Sometimes it is hard to tell your real position, as the bulk of your messaging here leans towards being mad and sad when Hamas loses ground and happy and excited when Israel loses public support. The inference is palpable. I don't think you understand exactly what this ground invasion means for Gaza: there will be an authority on every corner and oversight of every construction and gathering for likely 15 years. Hamas will never be able to re-coagulate in the way they have congealed up to now. The IDF, Mossad and Shin Bet and their allies around the globe, including the USA, Canada and the G7, along with the EU will absolutely not allow it. Peace and Prosperity will follow. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said: Sometimes it is hard to tell your real position, as the bulk of your messaging here leans towards being mad and sad when Hamas loses ground and happy and excited when Israel loses public support. The inference is palpable. I don't think you understand exactly what this ground invasion means for Gaza: there will be an authority on every corner and oversight of every construction and gathering for likely 15 years. Hamas will never be able to re-coagulate in the way they have congealed up to now. The IDF, Mossad and Shin Bet and their allies around the globe, including the USA, Canada and the G7, along with the EU will absolutely not allow it. Peace and Prosperity will follow. Not true whatsoever. I am 100% against Hamas. You are projecting. I don't think the long term vision for Gaza is yet defined. Your vision is your vision... but I do not think that kind of information has yet be realeased. Many people do not think Israel will want any of their forces in Gaza after this operation is over. Hamas and their terrorist ideology has been around Gaza for many decades.... this terror ideology will be back until Palastinians have freedom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, moosehead said: Not true whatsoever. I am 100% against Hamas. You are projecting. I have read about 700 of your posts on the subject, I may know you better than you know you at this point, hehehe. (rhetorical, obviously not true) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, moosehead said: OK keep on with your opinion. You are lucky to live in a free country that allows all citizens to have their own opinions and even protest if they want. My opinion is very different than yours. I look forward to both Israel and Palestinians both having a bright future filled with peace and equality. The typical humanitarian answer that I've come to expect from you after you've been pressed to come up with one. I'm curious to know your thoughts on what Yoshiyoshi said: you seem to think that Israel should not retaliate at all for the attack on Oct 7th and instead be held responsible for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshiyoshi Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 Just now, moosehead said: Not true whatsoever. I am 100% against Hamas. You are projecting. I don't think the long term vision for Gaza is yet defined. Your vision is your vision... but I do not think that kind of information has yet be realeased. Many people do not think Israel will want any of their forces in Gaza after this operation is over. Hamas and their terrorist ideology has been around Gaza for many decades.... this terror ideology will be back until Palastinians have freedom You say that, but your post history doesnt agree with that. There is a clear bias that shows passive support for Hamas hidden under the guise of humanitarianism and interest in peace. Even the post I quoted shows it in the wording of how you frame this conflict. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 18 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said: It is neither pointless nor futile. Just because something is extremely difficult does not mean it cannot be done or should not be done. Some will get away, they always do, but many of the ones who are known will be caught or killed. Resources that Hamas has will be destroyed or captured, it will take them a long time to recover if they are even able to. Judging by your post history you seem to think that Israel should not retaliate at all for the attack on Oct 7th and instead be held responsible for it but it doesnt matter what Israel may have done in the past it does not justify what Hamas did on the 7th. There will be no peace as long as Hamas exists in Gaza now. dunno, I have a lot of confidence the IDF can get the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshiyoshi Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Bob Long said: dunno, I have a lot of confidence the IDF can get the job done. I too think they will be far more successful than people think. Gaza is too small of an area for them to really hide in and other factions in the area hate them almost as much as they hate Israel so they wont have anywhere to flee to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 45 minutes ago, moosehead said: Not true whatsoever. I am 100% against Hamas. You are projecting. I don't think the long term vision for Gaza is yet defined. Your vision is your vision... but I do not think that kind of information has yet be realeased. Many people do not think Israel will want any of their forces in Gaza after this operation is over. Hamas and their terrorist ideology has been around Gaza for many decades.... this terror ideology will be back until Palastinians have freedom Given his related experience, I think his guess is a lot more educated than mine or yours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 31 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said: I too think they will be far more successful than people think. Gaza is too small of an area for them to really hide in and other factions in the area hate them almost as much as they hate Israel so they wont have anywhere to flee to. And the other factions will be even more willing to help once their lives improve without Hamas siphoning off aid money. Their living conditions will improve with Israel providing the security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Yoshiyoshi said: You say that, but your post history doesnt agree with that. There is a clear bias that shows passive support for Hamas hidden under the guise of humanitarianism and interest in peace. Even the post I quoted shows it in the wording of how you frame this conflict. Hopefully this forum allows for diverse opinions. I have 100 % of the time - stated it is my opinion that Hamas are terrorists and the Israel has every right to exist as a State. Where we disagree on is that in my opinion Israel needs to be an inclusive country that does not oppress its minorities. The current IDF offensive on Hamas in Gaza needs to not target innocent civilians ( women and children) Collective punishment is a war crime. The mods on this site do a great job keeping everyone respectful here , despite the hot topics that get discussed. Hopefully on this forum alternative views are not driven off this forum. Discussion is important. All of kinds of views if they are not offensive should be acceptable here. Edited November 9, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 Marwan Bishara, Al Jazeera’s senior political analyst, says the US announcement that Israel has agreed to four-hour “pauses” in the fighting in Gaza is a distraction. “There’s an unravelling genocide in Gaza and we’re talking about some humanitarian pause, which is absolutely meaningless. [What] we should be focused on is the ongoing genocide, the ongoing killing, the ongoing expulsion, the ongoing ethnic cleansing, the mass slaughter of children,” Bishara said. “This is the thing that’s going on while Mr Biden [is] and Mr Netanyahu is wasting everyone’s time about some four-hour humanitarian pause.” https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/9/israel-gaza-war-live-day-34 Gaza blood bank bombed, health ministry says The Palestinian Ministry of Health says Gaza’s blood bank service has been put out of service following a “targeted” Israeli attack. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/11/9/israel-gaza-war-live-day-34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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