Hamas attacking Israel

[CBH1926]

19 hours ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

 

Great.  My taxes are now going to go down the drain for a ground war on Iran that we'll likely get bogged down in.

Iran ground invasions is not going to happen imo, some sort of bombardment maybe.

Country is surrounded with mountains on 3 sides, best way to go would be amphibious landing.

When Sadam invaded back in 79 he went around mountains in the west but encountered swampy lands that bogged down his mechanization. We would need staging area for an invasion, options include Afghanistan, Iraq or Turkey.

Speaking of amphibious landing, Iran has been working for decades to shore up their defenses in that area. Plus with millions of Basij members who have been taught all their lives that the U.S is the evil, they would love the opportunity to sacrifice their lives to kill U.S soldiers. I hope I am right about no invasion part, if it happens it would make carnage in Iraq look like minor skirmish.

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by CBH1926

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

Iran ground invasions is not going to happen imo, some sort of bombardment maybe.

Country is surrounded with mountains on 3 sides, best way to go would be amphibious landing.

When Sadam invaded back in 79 he went around mountains in the west but encountered swampy lands that bogged down his mechanization. We would need staging area for an invasion, options include Afghanistan, Iraq or Turkey.

Speaking of amphibious landing, Iran has been working for decades to shore up there defenses in that area.

Plus with millions of Basij members who have been thought all their lives that the U.S is the evil, they would love the opportunity to sacrifice their lives to kill U.S soldiers. I hope I am right about no invasion part, if it happens it would make carnage in Iraq look like minor skirmish.

 

 

 

 

I'd be surprised if Iran gets involved now. The US has that sub parked nearby with cruise missiles, I'm sure many of which have Iran's nuclear program areas targeted. I'd be surprised if they risked losing that.

[Bob Long]

6 hours ago, Sabrefan1 said:

I've only now just noticed a new western leftist rallying cry of, "free Palestine from the river to the sea".  Is that new or have I just never run into it before in year's past.

 

Unless my recall of geography needs a refresh, that's western leftists basically calling for the destruction of Israel.

 

Am I missing something or has the far left gone even further in their rhetoric than I predicted last month that they would.

 

Much of the left now is about admiring its own statements. It's getting this stupid.

[Optimist Prime]

This is the most warhawk thing I will probably say on here: I am not disinclined to wish for Al Assad's regime and the Iranian Theocracy regime to be toppled. I hope they stay out of it, but if the war grows, from those lemons, the lemonade may be the removal of a dictator and the removal of his string masters in Iran. Shrug. Feels like I should be sorry to say this, but I strongly believe the free world has an obligation to the oppressed elsewhere to bring them along with us into a future of peace and prosperity, and that can't happen if anyone in charge of people feels it is okay to murder kids at a peace festival, or its okay to be a dictator, or its okay to fund terror globally and ally with folks like Kim Jong Un and Putin. Peace may be just a generation away, but Iran, Russia, North Korea and Syria and all their proxies stand in the way.

 

Spoiler

it is not going unnoticed that the Taliban flooded back from the west to the east. My buddy exfiltrated through the Panjwai valley three weeks after the Taliban seized control of Afghanistan again. It is believed there was strong support from Iran in how fast they filled the void left by the American withdrawal. ( I have a patch for my collection called "The Panjwai Valley Gun Club" as a little momento.) Similar to this image, but thread and fabric: 

 

[King Heffy]

7 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

This is the most warhawk thing I will probably say on here: I am not disinclined to wish for Al Assad's regime and the Iranian Theocracy regime to be toppled. I hope they stay out of it, but if the war grows, from those lemons, the lemonade may be the removal of a dictator and the removal of his string masters in Iran. Shrug. Feels like I should be sorry to say this, but I strongly believe the free world has an obligation to the oppressed elsewhere to bring them along with us into a future of peace and prosperity, and that can't happen if anyone in charge of people feels it is okay to murder kids at a peace festival, or its okay to be a dictator, or its okay to fund terror globally and ally with folks like Kim Jong Un and Putin. Peace may be just a generation away, but Iran, Russia, North Korea and Syria and all their proxies stand in the way.

 

  Hide contents

it is not going unnoticed that the Taliban flooded back from the west to the east. My buddy exfiltrated through the Panjwai valley three weeks after the Taliban seized control of Afghanistan again. It is believed there was strong support from Iran in how fast they filled the void left by the American withdrawal. ( I have a patch for my collection called "The Panjwai Valley Gun Club" as a little momento.) Similar to this image, but thread and fabric: 

 

I'll add in the very real threat of them successfully developing nukes.  This may be the last opportunity we have to remove that regime.

[Optimist Prime]

8 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I'll add in the very real threat of them successfully developing nukes.  This may be the last opportunity we have to remove that regime.

Nukes or no nukes, they have a knack for convincing people to blow themselves and others up for a better tomorrow?!?

 

[Bob Long]

23 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

This is the most warhawk thing I will probably say on here: I am not disinclined to wish for Al Assad's regime and the Iranian Theocracy regime to be toppled. I hope they stay out of it, but if the war grows, from those lemons, the lemonade may be the removal of a dictator and the removal of his string masters in Iran. Shrug. Feels like I should be sorry to say this, but I strongly believe the free world has an obligation to the oppressed elsewhere to bring them along with us into a future of peace and prosperity, and that can't happen if anyone in charge of people feels it is okay to murder kids at a peace festival, or its okay to be a dictator, or its okay to fund terror globally and ally with folks like Kim Jong Un and Putin. Peace may be just a generation away, but Iran, Russia, North Korea and Syria and all their proxies stand in the way.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

it is not going unnoticed that the Taliban flooded back from the west to the east. My buddy exfiltrated through the Panjwai valley three weeks after the Taliban seized control of Afghanistan again. It is believed there was strong support from Iran in how fast they filled the void left by the American withdrawal. ( I have a patch for my collection called "The Panjwai Valley Gun Club" as a little momento.) Similar to this image, but thread and fabric: 

 

 

Iranian people deserve a democracy. To me its that simple. 

[Optimist Prime]

 Fairly recent development; Al Shifa hospital has been surrounded and wouldn't you know it: Surprise, its Hamas holed up in there and under there in droves. Likely the HQ of the Hamas leadership group and I am curious to see who is unearthed when the shooting stops. 

 

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

 Fairly recent development; Al Shifa hospital has been surrounded and wouldn't you know it: Surprise, its Hamas holed up in there and under there in droves. Likely the HQ of the Hamas leadership group and I am curious to see who is unearthed when the shooting stops. 

 

 

those tunnels they spent so much time developing will be a death trap. 

 

[Optimist Prime]

28 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

those tunnels they spent so much time developing will be a death trap. 

 

Like they spent a lot of time and effort digging their own graves. 

10 hours ago - 

Israeli army says overnight ground forces killed a number of members of Hamas's elite Nukhba forces, who participated in the October 7 massacre. Among them was Ahmed Musa, a Nukhba company commander, and Amr Alhandi, a platoon commander, who were holed up in Jabaliya

8 hours ago - 

Israeli forces in the hospital square, which includes "Al-Rantisi, Al-Nasr, Al-Oyoun, and Mental Health" in Gaza

Quote

this one is interesting to me in that I encountered several mentally handicapped men in Syria who were paid informants to the regime there. There is no social services really, so the disabled dont really get government funding outside of doing jobs for the government like reporting who comes and goes from places. This is not the Al SHifa hospital, this is a public square with many different medical centers in it, aaaand Hamas in and under it. 

 

 

10 hours ago

Tanks in the vicinity of Rantissi, Al-Nasr and Al-Ayoun hospitals

[Bob Long]

8 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Like they spent a lot of time and effort digging their own graves. 

10 hours ago - 

Israeli army says overnight ground forces killed a number of members of Hamas's elite Nukhba forces, who participated in the October 7 massacre. Among them was Ahmed Musa, a Nukhba company commander, and Amr Alhandi, a platoon commander, who were holed up in Jabaliya

8 hours ago - 

Israeli forces in the hospital square, which includes "Al-Rantisi, Al-Nasr, Al-Oyoun, and Mental Health" in Gaza

 

 

10 hours ago

Tanks in the vicinity of Rantissi, Al-Nasr and Al-Ayoun hospitals

 

The only part that worries me is they likely have the leaders surrounded by hostages.

[Optimist Prime]

11 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

The only part that worries me is they likely have the leaders surrounded by hostages.

I remember way back in the early 90s when Russia tightened its screws on Chechnya, Chechen rebels seized a russian high school mid day during school. 

Russian stormtroopers simply killed everyone in the complex, hostage, chechen rebel, teacher. Some of the civilians got out during the raid, but by and large, the Russian Strategy was to take away the asset of 'hostages' by not caring one bit about them. I don't believe Israel is that cold and calculated, but I think the only way to get the most possible hostages free would be to engage in close quarters combat and hope for suvivors. Does the calculus allow for the dozens of IDF deaths that would incur? I don't know. of a possible 240 hostages: Hamas has already said more than 60 died in bombings and that was over a week ago, likely more now. So 180ish hostages remain? one is too many, but I don't know if the IDF will sacrifice 200 soldiers lives for less than 200 civilians. I hope that they try, but I just don't know that the math works in teh favour of the remaining hostages at this point. 

 

edit: thinking out side the box: possible to administer sleeping gas through the air shafts of the tunnels? is that legal? I have no idea about this, just off the top of my head...as a means to an end: knock out everyone underground and sort through them.?

[Taxi]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

This is the most warhawk thing I will probably say on here: I am not disinclined to wish for Al Assad's regime and the Iranian Theocracy regime to be toppled. I hope they stay out of it, but if the war grows, from those lemons, the lemonade may be the removal of a dictator and the removal of his string masters in Iran. Shrug. Feels like I should be sorry to say this, but I strongly believe the free world has an obligation to the oppressed elsewhere to bring them along with us into a future of peace and prosperity, and that can't happen if anyone in charge of people feels it is okay to murder kids at a peace festival, or its okay to be a dictator, or its okay to fund terror globally and ally with folks like Kim Jong Un and Putin. Peace may be just a generation away, but Iran, Russia, North Korea and Syria and all their proxies stand in the way.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

it is not going unnoticed that the Taliban flooded back from the west to the east. My buddy exfiltrated through the Panjwai valley three weeks after the Taliban seized control of Afghanistan again. It is believed there was strong support from Iran in how fast they filled the void left by the American withdrawal. ( I have a patch for my collection called "The Panjwai Valley Gun Club" as a little momento.) Similar to this image, but thread and fabric: 

 

 

I honestly think Iran's days are numbered. 

 

There is a very muted response from the other Iran proxies, most notably Hezbollah, on this Gaza invasion. My guess is that Hezbollah simply cannot afford to go to war right now. It would mean their swift end. Russia is no longer flooding the region with weapons, as Russia needs weapons themselves. Hezbollah is likely depleted from their involvement in Syria. The Lebanese economy has collapsed and people are fleeing. Plus, the rumour is that Turkey, like a vulture, is circling Lebanon in the North and looking for any reason to invade.

 

Similarly, Iran has a quickly falling birth rate and significant portion of their population is already revolting. Iran's fertility rate among the Persian population is falling faster than among the minority groups. Iran could, therefore, have a Persian absolute minority within a decade.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

I remember way back in the early 90s when Russia tightened its screws on Chechnya, Chechen rebels seized a russian high school mid day during school. 

Russian stormtroopers simply killed everyone in the complex, hostage, chechen rebel, teacher. Some of the civilians got out during the raid, but by and large, the Russian Strategy was to take away the asset of 'hostages' by not caring one bit about them. I don't believe Israel is that cold and calculated, but I think the only way to get the most possible hostages free would be to engage in close quarters combat and hope for suvivors. Does the calculus allow for the dozens of IDF deaths that would incur? I don't know. of a possible 240 hostages: Hamas has already said more than 60 died in bombings and that was over a week ago, likely more now. So 180ish hostages remain? one is too many, but I don't know if the IDF will sacrifice 200 soldiers lives for less than 200 civilians. I hope that they try, but I just don't know that the math works in teh favour of the remaining hostages at this point. 

 

I guess if you can secure all exits from the tunnels you could just wait them out? Doubtful tho.

 

I think you are correct, they will go in and hope for survivors.

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Taxi said:

 

I honestly think Iran's days are numbered. 

 

There is a very muted response from the other Iran proxies, most notably Hezbollah, on this Gaza invasion. My guess is that Hezbollah simply cannot afford to go to war right now. It would mean their swift end. Russia is no longer flooding the region with weapons, as Russia needs weapons themselves. Hezbollah is likely depleted from their involvement in Syria. The Lebanese economy has collapsed and people are fleeing. Plus, the rumour is that Turkey, like a vulture, is circling Lebanon in the North and looking for any reason to invade.

 

Similarly, Iran has a quickly falling birth rate and significant portion of their population is already revolting. Iran's fertility rate among the Persian population is falling faster than among the minority groups. Iran could, therefore, have a Persian absolute minority within a decade.

While it is not an invasion per se, Turkey has seized roughly 30km's along their border of lands inside Syria, but mostly from the Free Syrian Army and the Kurds at this point. 

however yeah, Turkey would certainly want to take more of the coastline in northern Syria, as an example. 

[Taxi]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

I remember way back in the early 90s when Russia tightened its screws on Chechnya, Chechen rebels seized a russian high school mid day during school. 

Russian stormtroopers simply killed everyone in the complex, hostage, chechen rebel, teacher. Some of the civilians got out during the raid, but by and large, the Russian Strategy was to take away the asset of 'hostages' by not caring one bit about them. I don't believe Israel is that cold and calculated, but I think the only way to get the most possible hostages free would be to engage in close quarters combat and hope for suvivors. Does the calculus allow for the dozens of IDF deaths that would incur? I don't know. of a possible 240 hostages: Hamas has already said more than 60 died in bombings and that was over a week ago, likely more now. So 180ish hostages remain? one is too many, but I don't know if the IDF will sacrifice 200 soldiers lives for less than 200 civilians. I hope that they try, but I just don't know that the math works in teh favour of the remaining hostages at this point. 

 

The fate of many of the hostages are sealed unfortunately. Negotiation will only lead to more hostages being taken. And yes, Israel has to look at the lives of the soldiers too. 

[RomanPer]

7 hours ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

I could be mistaken but isnt that poster a Russian propaganda channel? Or am i thinking of one with a similar name?

 

No, quite the opposite.

[Taxi]

6 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

While it is not an invasion per se, Turkey has seized roughly 30km's along their border of lands inside Syria, but mostly from the Free Syrian Army and the Kurds at this point. 

however yeah, Turkey would certainly want to take more of the coastline in northern Syria, as an example. 

 

Turkey has its own demographic problems. dealing with its expanding and, historically oppressed, Kurdish population. Turkey has an overall fertility rate of 1.9, but amongst the Kurdish population that rate is likely 3.4ish, which puts the rate amongst the ethnic Turkish population at about 1.5.

 

Eventually we'll see Kurdistan as an independent country that will have huge implication for Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria. Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon are non-functioning states at this point. There are major changes coming to the region quickly, and Iran would be a lot better off strengthening their own nation than their current course of meddling in everyone else's.

[RomanPer]

8 hours ago, Sabrefan1 said:

I've only now just noticed a new western leftist rallying cry of, "free Palestine from the river to the sea".  Is that new or have I just never run into it before in year's past.

 

Unless my recall of geography needs a refresh, that's western leftists basically calling for the destruction of Israel.

 

Am I missing something or has the far left gone even further in their rhetoric than I predicted last month that they would.

 

Sadly, this is not new. Far left has been repeating this anti-Israel slogan for years, they just weren’t as loud.

[Taxi]

13 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I guess if you can secure all exits from the tunnels you could just wait them out? Doubtful tho.

 

I think you are correct, they will go in and hope for survivors.

 

Israel has been entering all sorts of tunnels already and experiencing minimal losses. Being trapped in a tunnel with no sunlight or fresh food and water apparently isn't the best for defenders either. Israel has been using attack dogs, drones, and smoke to soften the defenders up. Then it sends in highly trained special forces units with night vision goggles, gas masks, superior firepower etc...For the most part, however, Israel hasn't been even sending in forces and just collapsing the tunnels from above with bunker busters. 

[Taxi]

5 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Sadly, this is not new. Far left has been repeating this anti-Israel slogan for years, they just weren’t as loud.

 

It's quite messed up. Especially as you have various LGTBQ groups joining in. Tel Aviv is likely one of the most gay friendly cities in the world:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimwesterman/2022/06/04/tel-aviv-gay-capital-of-the-middle-east-welcomes-return-of-pride-celebration-june-8th-12th/?sh=56b46c4b7cc3

 

If Hamas were to take over Tel Aviv, you'd see hundreds of thousands LGTBQ people fall under the control of a regime that habitually throws gay people off buildings.

[moosehead]

10 hours ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

Hamas is opposed to peace because peace would mean they lose their power and they would rather rule in hell that serve in heaven as the saying goes. And Hamas isnt resistance fighters, they are terrorists. If they were resistance fighters they would have attacked targets that would help weaken Isreal like military, police, government etc, not music festivals and exclusively civilian targets.

 

Israel is opposed to peace because peace would mean they lose their current level of  power . Israel  isn't resistance fighters, they are are a well trained military for an expansionist settler nation.   Isreal's settler expansion of  Palenstinian territory  assists their   demographic goals to be a Jewish state. 

 

I support Israels right to exist but Isreal needs to coexist with a Palestinian nation.   Peace and freedom for all. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by moosehead

[Optimist Prime]

14 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Israel is opposed to peace because peace would mean they lose their current level of  power . Israel  isn't resistance fighters, they are are a well trained military for an expansionist settler nation.   Isreal's settler expansion of  Palenstinian territory  assists their   demographic goals to be a Jewish state. 

 

I support Israels right to exist but Isreal needs to coexist with a Palestinian nation.   Peace and freedom for all. 

There are non jewish israeli's now, and have been for as long as there has been an Israel. 

 

As for a Palestinian Nation: that goal is further away today than it was on Oct 6th. That much is certain.

[moosehead]

9 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

There are non jewish israeli's now, and have been for as long as there has been an Israel. 

 

 

Yes of course.... but the main goal of Israel is for it to remain a jewish state.  This is clear. 

Having non jewish minority with a high birth rate may not help with this goal nor would absorbing 2 million non jewish gaza citizens....

Edited November 10, 2023 by moosehead

[Satchmo]

2 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Yes of course.... but the main goal of Israel is for it to remain a jewish state.  This is clear. 

Having non jewish minority with a high birth rate may not help with this goal nor would absorbing 2 million non jewish gaza citizens....

I'd say the main goal for Israel is for it to remain Israel.  

 

And what is the main goal of Hamas (and other groups like it)?