Hamas attacking Israel

[moosehead]

15 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

 

 

As for a Palestinian Nation: that goal is further away today than it was on Oct 6th. That much is certain.

 

This is not certain.  The good people of Gaza has gotten attention across the globe and world support for their cause grows daily.

Yes Hamas has been exposed for the evil they are....  but Gaza civilians and their cause , has taken over the world media... and a solution for them now is more than ever possible.....         Israel has lost the PR war / media  with this invasion / collective punishment  of Gaza. 

[Taxi]

7 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Yes of course.... but the main goal of Israel is for it to remain a jewish state.  This is clear. 

Having non jewish minority with a high birth rate may not help with this goal nor would absorbing 2 million non jewish gaza citizens....

 

The birthrate of the Jewish population now exceeds that of the Arab population, and the Jewish population constantly has a net number of migrants, while the Arab population has a net negative migration ratio.

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-12-31/ty-article/.premium/in-first-for-israel-jewish-fertility-rate-surpasses-that-of-arabs/0000017f-ead8-d4cd-af7f-ebf8af380000

 

Israel does not intend to absorb Gaza. 

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, moosehead said:

 

This is not certain.  The good people of Gaza has gotten attention across the globe and world support for their cause grows daily.

Yes Hamas has been exposed for the evil they are....  but Gaza civilians and their cause , has taken over the world media... and a solution for them now is more than ever possible.....         Israel has lost the PR war / media  with this invasion / collective punishment  of Gaza. 

I guess for you this is true.

[moosehead]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I guess for you this is true.

 

I guess for you it is not ....

 

 

TEL AVIV — Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu may be digging in for a “long and difficult war” but former leader Ehud Barak fears Israel has only weeks left to eliminate Hamas, as public opinion — most significantly in the U.S. — rapidly swings against its attacks on Gaza.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/ehud-barak-israel-palestine-war-hamas-global-opinion-sours/

Edited November 10, 2023 by moosehead

[Satchmo]

5 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

I guess for you it is not ....

 

 

TEL AVIV — Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu may be digging in for a “long and difficult war” but former leader Ehud Barak fears Israel has only weeks left to eliminate Hamas, as public opinion — most significantly in the U.S. — rapidly swings against its attacks on Gaza.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/ehud-barak-israel-palestine-war-hamas-global-opinion-sours/

How rare it is to see a former leader disagree with the current one...

 

What will we see next?  Trump disagree with Biden?   Harper with Trudeau?

 

And yes, anti Israeli statements seem pretty trendy these days.   Much of it that I have seen doesn't seem to have had a lot of thought put into it.   Many trends do not.

[Super19]

3 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

How rare it is to see a former leader disagree with the current one...

 

What will we see next?  Trump disagree with Biden?   Harper with Trudeau?

 

And yes, anti Israeli statements seem pretty trendy these days.   Much of it that I have seen doesn't seem to have had a lot of thought put into it.   Many trends do not.

Not much thought needed for some to discern the oppressed from the oppressor.

[Taxi]

8 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

How rare it is to see a former leader disagree with the current one...

 

What will we see next?  Trump disagree with Biden?   Harper with Trudeau?

 

And yes, anti Israeli statements seem pretty trendy these days.   Much of it that I have seen doesn't seem to have had a lot of thought put into it.   Many trends do not.

 

I don't see any increase in anti-Israel sentiment. It seems like everyone who was already anti-Israel to being with has finally found their reason to start shouting as loud as they can. They ignore October 7 and will only look at Israel's response.

[Yoshiyoshi]

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

 

No, quite the opposite.

Do you know which one I am talking about by any chance? I remember seeing one that with a similar name on twitter that posted a lot of stuff that seemed pro invasion but its been a while and I dont remember it.

[Sabrefan1]

5 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

Iran ground invasions is not going to happen imo, some sort of bombardment maybe.

Country is surrounded with mountains on 3 sides, best way to go would be amphibious landing.

When Sadam invaded back in 79 he went around mountains in the west but encountered swampy lands that bogged down his mechanization. We would need staging area for an invasion, options include Afghanistan, Iraq or Turkey.

Speaking of amphibious landing, Iran has been working for decades to shore up there defenses in that area.

Plus with millions of Basij members who have been thought all their lives that the U.S is the evil, they would love the opportunity to sacrifice their lives to kill U.S soldiers. I hope I am right about no invasion part, if it happens it would make carnage in Iraq look like minor skirmish.

 

I hope you're right as well.  Nobody in the US wants another long, dragged out, expensive war.

[4petesake]

4 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

Do you know which one I am talking about by any chance? I remember seeing one that with a similar name on twitter that posted a lot of stuff that seemed pro invasion but its been a while and I dont remember it.

I believe you may be thinking of Igor Girkin.

[Super19]

 

[Sabrefan1]

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

Much of the left now is about admiring its own statements. It's getting this stupid.

 

Thanks for the answer.  The first time I saw that, I was like, "huh".  Then I did a quick mental map check and was like, "That's effed up". 

 

I said early in this thread that the rank and file left would side with the Palestinians, but I didn't think that they would start calling for it's outright destruction.

 

I guess we'll see if that ridiculous statement catches fire with them or not.

[Satchmo]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

Not much thought needed for some to discern the oppressed from the oppressor.

But surely some thought is needed.    And just as surely some kids at college campuses are merely jumping on a trendy bandwagon without much thought as to why.   And some adults are just looking for hits on their ad based websites.   

 

I'll be honest - I kind of like the fact that Israel is taking flak for past practices.   I do not agree with all they have done in the past.   I just think some of the flak they are getting is a bit extreme.  And in some cases just dumb.

 

Edit - I'm not sure If I feel 'some' of what is being said, or a 'lot' of what is being said, is extreme and/or dumb.   I just know I don't want to start reading it all to be just able to quantify it better.

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Satchmo

[Sabrefan1]

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

Sadly, this is not new. Far left has been repeating this anti-Israel slogan for years, they just weren’t as loud.

 

Not cool.  I only just started noticing it.  Fortunately I lived in ignorant bliss of that disgusting saying.

[Yoshiyoshi]

3 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Thanks for the answer.  The first time I saw that, I was like, "huh".  Then I did a quick mental map check and was like, "That's effed up". 

 

I said early in this thread that the rank and file left would side with the Palestinians, but I didn't think that they would start calling for it's outright destruction.

 

I guess we'll see if that ridiculous statement catches fire with them or not.

As someone who would be considered on the left, I am disappointed by how many people are jumping on the anti Israel train. Its like they arent even thinking about the situation and just immediately jump on the underdogs side.

[Optimist Prime]

The queerest thing is the LGBTQ2S+ folks that are going on record as wanting Palestine to be from the River to the Sea? lol...those same folks would be dead by morning if they suddenly found themselves living amongst Palestinians. How strange the disinformation age is. 

[Super19]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

The queerest thing is the LGBTQ2S+ folks that are going on record as wanting Palestine to be from the River to the Sea? lol...those same folks would be dead by morning if they suddenly found themselves living amongst Palestinians. How strange the disinformation age is. 

It's a testimont to how disliked Israel is right now.

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

As someone who would be considered on the left, I am disappointed by how many people are jumping on the anti Israel train. Its like they arent even thinking about the situation and just immediately jump on the underdogs side.

 

It's weird to me that lots are painting this as a politcal sides thing and maybe it is. But not in my circle.

 

I have two quite right wing people in my family and they are the most critical of Isreal. One simply doesn't believe that the initial attack wasnt some sort of set up. Talks about how long the attack lasted, how vulnerable the mighty Isreal defense was on many fronts all of a sudden. But i suppose that falls inline with right wing types being more conspiracy believing. 

 

 

[Sabrefan1]

3 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

As someone who would be considered on the left, I am disappointed by how many people are jumping on the anti Israel train. Its like they arent even thinking about the situation and just immediately jump on the underdogs side.

 

Is it just the radical element in the Democratic party or are the rank and file voting-aged left also joining in on the hoping for Israels destruction? 

 

Usually I'm decently informed, but the whole calling for their outright destruction came to me out of nowhere.

[Super19]

11 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

But surely some thought is needed.    And just as surely some kids at college campuses are merely jumping on a trendy bandwagon without much thought as to why.   And some adults are just looking for hits on their ad based websites.   

 

I'll be honest - I kind of like the fact that Israel is taking flak for past practices.   I do not agree with all they have done in the past.   I just think some of the flak they are getting is a bit extreme.  And in some cases just dumb.

 

It's hard for Israel to not take flak right now because of the amount of destruction they are causing. You can't really look at this whole conflict only beyond Oct 7 anyway, but if you were to look at it strictly from Oct 7... Israel has committed war crimes and crimes agaisnt of their own. Israel just is not getting a free pass from many people, despite our governments giving them a free pass. And therein lies more cause for the moral outrage we are seeing around the world rn.

[bishopshodan]

5 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

The queerest thing is the LGBTQ2S+ folks that are going on record as wanting Palestine to be from the River to the Sea? lol...those same folks would be dead by morning if they suddenly found themselves living amongst Palestinians. How strange the disinformation age is. 

I was just reading about that, not the lgbt opinions ,but the phrase. 

i understand how it can trigger some.

 

Apparently it has different meanings to different people. Yet, since hamas has adopted it I think chants of it are in bad taste to say the least.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/09/us/politics/river-to-the-sea-israel-gaza-palestinians.html

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

It's hard for Israel to not take flak right now because of the amount of destruction they are causing. You can't really look at this whole conflict only beyond Oct 7 anyway, but if you were to look at it strictly from Oct 7... Israel has committed war crimes and crimes agaisnt of their own. Israel just is not getting a free pass from many people, despite our governments giving them a free pass. And therein lies more cause for the moral outrage we are seeing around the world rn.

It's hard to react to a savage attack using only bouquets of flowers and chocolates in heart shaped boxes. 

[Super19]

2 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

It's hard to react to a savage attack using only bouquets of flowers and chocolates in heart shaped boxes. 

Agreed. It's easy to see why Israel is striking back the way they are. Doesn't make it right though.

[Yoshiyoshi]

7 minutes ago, Super19 said:

It's hard for Israel to not take flak right now because of the amount of destruction they are causing. You can't really look at this whole conflict only beyond Oct 7 anyway, but if you were to look at it strictly from Oct 7... Israel has committed war crimes and crimes agaisnt of their own. Israel just is not getting a free pass from many people, despite our governments giving them a free pass. And therein lies more cause for the moral outrage we are seeing around the world rn.

Again i have to disagree. The Oct 7 attacked changed Israel from being the attacker to the victim. Looking at anything before that just confuses the issue. I again disagree with the war crime claim as it is Hamas that is using civilian locations as bases and shields. Hamas became an existential threat to Israel on Oct 7th and not attacking them is not an option for them. And the moral outrage you are talking about is also quite hypocritical considering how little those same people seem to care for other conflicts and other oppressed people.

[Sabrefan1]

30 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

Is it just the radical element in the Democratic party or are the rank and file voting-aged left also joining in on the hoping for Israels destruction? 

 

Usually I'm decently informed, but the whole calling for their outright destruction came to me out of nowhere.

 

37 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

As someone who would be considered on the left, I am disappointed by how many people are jumping on the anti Israel train. Its like they arent even thinking about the situation and just immediately jump on the underdogs side.

 

 

Nevermind.  As far as I can tell after watching video and reading articles, it's been coming off of Western University campuses.  It's the young people (Gen Z) that have recently started saying it like a mantra.  Now it seems that they are getting bold enough to say it online and that's where it's starting to catch fire and spread.