Hamas attacking Israel

[Optimist Prime]

Neat. Just got off the phone with fam. My nephew Cohen was beat up at school today, he is 7 and doesn't even know this Israel guy...

[RomanPer]

8 minutes ago, Riddikulus said:

This argument reminds me of when the right wing reacts to outrage about police brutality against black people by talking about black on black crime. Whataboutism is never a convincing argument. 

 

This is not a "whataboutism", it's a genuine observation and comparison of complete blowing out of proportion policies of Jewish state vs complete ignoring of much worse done to the Muslims by the Muslims in other countries to explain why this particular position is anti-Semitic at its core. But you do you and twist my words. Wouldn't be the first time.

[Yoshiyoshi]

45 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Sorry, I'm not sure which one you mean. Visegrad was on the right side of history from the beginning. I believe their headquarters are in Prague (I might be wrong though).

Honestly its probably my own memory thats at fault, I probably saw something with 2 twitter posts on it and mixed the 2 together and then just assumed anything weird i saw from that poster was propaganda. Ive seen a few news stories that the headlines and the post seemed to contradict each other so it was probably a translation issue with the title or maybe someone trying to shorten it

[Riddikulus]

1 minute ago, RomanPer said:

 

This is not a "whataboutism", it's a genuine observation and comparison of complete blowing out of proportion policies of Jewish state vs complete ignoring of much worse done to the Muslims by the Muslims in other countries to explain why this particular position is anti-Semitic at its core. But you do you and twist my words. Wouldn't be the first time.

You are free to start threads about black on black Muslim on Muslim crime in those 'other countries'. Until then I will call it whataboutism as you are using what's happening in those countries to further your political argument. Not sure how I have twisted your words, I am simply interpreting them. 

[Super19]

Looks like Israel is trying to win the Social Media War by dropping this eye opening video.

[Yoshiyoshi]

Just now, Riddikulus said:

You are free to start threads about black on black Muslim on Muslim crime in those 'other countries'. Until then I will call it whataboutism as you are using what's happening in those countries to further your political argument. Not sure how I have twisted your words, I am simply interpreting them. 

What he is saying is that when someone is outraged over something and brings out all the words like genocide, warcrimes, atrocities, and then completely ignores the actions of everyone else other than their target of outrage, it makes it hard to believe that they arent just opposed to the specific party. That is not the same as whataboutism although i will admit that it can look similar in absence of more information

[Bob Long]

28 minutes ago, Riddikulus said:

I am not so sure that is true. Just look at the number of older folks down who gravitate to populists like Trump. It seems to me that as you age, you simply shift from one ideology to another.  

 

is it that simple with Trumpy tho? a lot of young-ish black Americans seem to support him now more than ever too, not just the Florida fossils. 

 

I know for me, I can see through more BS than when I was younger, or at least I think I can  

 

But I have met many stubborn old farts too. Dunno, I don't see a lot of old people wanting war, they tend to want things to be stable and peaceful imo. 

[Super19]

5 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

What he is saying is that when someone is outraged over something and brings out all the words like genocide, warcrimes, atrocities, and then completely ignores the actions of everyone else other than their target of outrage, it makes it hard to believe that they arent just opposed to the specific party. That is not the same as whataboutism although i will admit that it can look similar in absence of more information

Our Governments are against those atrocities.

 

But in this case, our governments are actively supporting, funding and backing Israel's atrocities.

 

Thus the outspoken moral outrage being seen here in this conflict.

[Super19]

36 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Does it matter if they were shot, stabbed, dashed on the concrete, or beheaded? Is there different levels of outrage based on how babies were throttled or had their hearts cut out? I don't follow what you are trying to say here. 

 

[RomanPer]

23 minutes ago, Riddikulus said:

You are free to start threads about black on black Muslim on Muslim crime in those 'other countries'. Until then I will call it whataboutism as you are using what's happening in those countries to further your political argument. Not sure how I have twisted your words, I am simply interpreting them. 

 

You are entirely missing my point, but whether it's deliberate or not - I don't really care.

[Yoshiyoshi]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

Our Governments are against those atrocities.

 

But in this case, our governments are actively supporting, funding and backing Israel's atrocities.

 

Thus the outspoken moral outrage being seen here in this conflict.

And thats the narrative you keep saying which doesnt match the truth. You continue to ignore the reality of the situation, continue to ignore the actions of those Israel is fighting, and continue to ignore the fact that Israel doesnt have any choice but to use force right now. Israel has done the minimum required to avoid civilian casualties in a war zone, if people dont get out of the way at this point then there isnt much they can do. Israel isnt specifically targeting civilians unlike what Hamas did, some may be to afraid of Hamas to leave but now Israel is providing evacuation corridors for people to use during pauses in the fighting. War is not a civilized activity, and civilians are the ones who suffer the most in conflicts, thats just reality. It is terrible, but if simply refusing to fight a war would fix things we wouldnt be at this point.

[Optimist Prime]

2 minutes ago, Super19 said:

 

Without using Google...who the heck is George Galloway? LOL using social media for data research is like fornicating for virginity.

[Riddikulus]

15 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

What he is saying is that when someone is outraged over something and brings out all the words like genocide, warcrimes, atrocities, and then completely ignores the actions of everyone else other than their target of outrage, it makes it hard to believe that they arent just opposed to the specific party. That is not the same as whataboutism although i will admit that it can look similar in absence of more information

With all due respect, its a nonsensical argument. No one was talking about Israel and Hamas until the latest rise in tensions. We can probably go through the number of posts that have been created over the years on Israel and Palestine on this forum and the old one. We were all ignoring it as there were other things to focus on and its not like civilians weren't dying in this conflict for the last however many years.

[Super19]

4 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

And thats the narrative you keep saying which doesnt match the truth. You continue to ignore the reality of the situation, continue to ignore the actions of those Israel is fighting, and continue to ignore the fact that Israel doesnt have any choice but to use force right now. Israel has done the minimum required to avoid civilian casualties in a war zone, if people dont get out of the way at this point then there isnt much they can do. Israel isnt specifically targeting civilians unlike what Hamas did, some may be to afraid of Hamas to leave but now Israel is providing evacuation corridors for people to use during pauses in the fighting. War is not a civilized activity, and civilians are the ones who suffer the most in conflicts, thats just reality. It is terrible, but if simply refusing to fight a war would fix things we wouldnt be at this point.

Again, if the goal is to eliminate Hamas, Israel is just creating more Hamas with this response. 

[Riddikulus]

6 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

You are entirely missing my point, but whether it's deliberate or not - I don't really care.

Perhaps you believe I am not capable of "thought", as you accused this poster of. Personal attacks like whataboutism, not something that helps make your argument more convincing.

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

Based on your posts, "thought" is not really a burden for you to begin with.

[Satchmo]

3 minutes ago, Super19 said:

 

I hope the top bit is true but I'd like to hear it come from someone else.   Galloway is quite the sensationalist.

 

Here's the whole tweet:

 

The foul allegations of rape have been dropped by the Israeli government. The forty beheaded babies has been downscaled to one dead baby, not beheaded, and killed by persons unknown. Two thirds of Israelis killed on October 7 were military personnel. The killers of the remaining one third are definitively revealed to have been in part the Israeli armed forces themselves. Those with influence who spread the propaganda to the contrary stand exposed as War Criminals and now much blood stains their character for ever. It is a spot which will not out. #Gaza_War #GazaCeasefire #GazaHolocaust #GazaHospital

 

Just how does he know that 1/3 of Israeli soldiers killed were by Israeli hands?   That's another thing I'll wait to hear from someone else.

[Super19]

This is not defeating Hamas. And ultimately, however you want to slice it, Israel is the one dropping the bombs.

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Please excuse my ignorance but how is Palestinian TV functioning if Israel shut off electricity, and isn’t allowing fuel for generators to cross into Gaza? 

[Optimist Prime]

13 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Again, if the goal is to eliminate Hamas, Israel is just creating more Hamas with this response. 

I agree with this sentiment, but a variant... the group of structured people known as Hamas are likely going to number in the dozens instead of the tens of thousands after this is done. Then, the traumatized, lost, defeated people of Gaza will spend 20 years processing this and most will hopefully find better lives in the future than they have had up to Oct 7th and this horrible time since. Still some will radicalize and go more unstable. Think of it like Isis compared to AL Quieda. There is a large risk of a new threat growing out of this, absolutely, and in a lot of ways, it depends on what happens after the shooting stops. As for Hamas though, they won't be able to restructure from this in any meaningful way. The sentiment is true though, what is happening post Oct 7th will lead to more people becoming radicals.

[Alflives]

49 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Neat. Just got off the phone with fam. My nephew Cohen was beat up at school today, he is 7 and doesn't even know this Israel guy...

Is this in Canada?

[bishopshodan]

8 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Without using Google...who the heck is George Galloway? LOL using social media for data research is like fornicating for virginity.

 

Is he lying in his tweet? What are the numbers that the Isreal gov are now saying? for example is the Isreal gov now saying that only on babie was killed on Oct7th?

 

I dont do social media, i pop in this thread to try to find some info inbetween all the back and forth 

[moosehead]

9 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Again, if the goal is to eliminate Hamas, Israel is just creating more Hamas with this response. 

 

Maybe the goal of current Israel government is exactly that - create more Hamas power in Gaza.

 

Disfunction in Gaza allows for Israel to seize more and more Palestinian lands for settlers.... It's about security right ?

[Yoshiyoshi]

7 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Again, if the goal is to eliminate Hamas, Israel is just creating more Hamas with this response. 

Of course some will turn to extremism, some always do. Some people always blame the wrong target. That is not a reason for Israel to stop this campaign. It is a reason for Israel to stop whats going on in the west bank, and it is a reason for them to stop some of the stuff that has been done in the past. There are some things that can be solved through de-escalation, but some things can only be solved through violence and this current situation is one of them. No nation can ignore the type of attack that happened on Oct 7th, any government or nation that did would not last long as it would fall apart from lack of confidence and trust by the members of that nation. Hamas created the current situation and it wont end until Hamas has been crippled and removed from being a factor in Gaza.

[Optimist Prime]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Is this in Canada?

Vancouver Island.

[Alflives]

13 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Again, if the goal is to eliminate Hamas, Israel is just creating more Hamas with this response. 

In your opinion. Maybe the good people if Palestine (Gaza) want Hamas gone and needed help to do so?