Hamas attacking Israel

[dannydog]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

You’re certainly entitled to your opinions. But it doesn’t look like the IDF cares much of others’ opinions. They appear to be following through with eliminating Hamas terrorists. 
Once that is accomplished then we will see who helps Gaza gets built up. 

 It won’t be any of the surrounding Arabian countries offering any aid if Hamas is destroyed. But there will be plenty others to help

Edited November 13, 2023 by dannydog

[Super19]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

How do you view the wars Israel has had to deal with since 1948?

I think Israel has a right to exist, but not a right to opress Palestinians. 

 

I think Israel has settled itself as a powerful country now, with strong allies and a strong defense system. They cannot use their position to oppress in Gaza.

 

I also think Saudi and the ME has no interest in wiping Israel off the map.

[Guntrix]

52 minutes ago, Super19 said:

According to Nentanyahu, Israel is fighting Hamas for the betterment of Palestinians and Israel. Fighting terrorists in a war. Just let Israel finish their job at eliminating Hamas, a ceasefire now will only strengthen Hamas position. Don't you get it? And Israel is doing an exemplary job in minimizing civilian casualties anyway - according to Nentanyahu.

 

Also, Hamas broke ceasefire rules on Oct 7 apparantly. Israel and the Palestinian people are clearly the victims here, and Hamas is to blame. So just let Israel keep on fighting Hamas. Then and only then can Palestinians have a better future.

 

I think this is what anyone supporting Israel in this war right now is believing.

Simple question: When will Israel know they've reached their objective?

[moosehead]

The 7 most Racist Israeli laws..

 

 

1. The Jewish Nation-State Law

• One of Israel’s quasi-constitutional Basic Laws. Stipulates that the right to self-determination in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories “is unique to the Jewish people” and encourages racial segregation and discrimination against Palestinians in housing by directing the state to promote the “development of Jewish settlement as a national value.”

2. The Law of “Return”

• Gives Jews from anywhere in the world the right to immigrate to Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories and to automatically receive Israeli citizenship. At the same time, Israel denies indigenous Palestinians who were expelled during and after Israel’s establishment their legal right to return to their homeland because they aren’t Jewish and treats Palestinian citizens of the state, who comprise more than 20% of Israel’s population, as second-class citizens.

3. The Admissions Committee Law

• Authorizes hundreds of smaller towns to set up “admissions committees” to reject applications from Palestinians, LGBTQ people, and others deemed undesirable using criteria such as being “unsuitable to the social life of the community… or the social and cultural fabric of the town.”

4. Absentee Property Law and Land Acquisition Law

• Allows Israel’s government to expropriate land and other property belonging to Palestinians who were driven from their homes during the state’s establishment. The primary tool used by Israel to steal huge amounts of land and private property from Palestinians who were expelled and denied their right to return, including many internally displaced within Israel’s borders.

5. Israel Lands Law

• Another of Israel’s quasi-constitutional Basic Laws. Stipulates that ownership of state lands can only be transferred between the government and quasi-governmental agencies like the Jewish National Fund, which only leases land to Jews. Ninety-three percent of the land in Israel is state owned. Israel's discriminatory land policies make it extremely difficult for Palestinians with Israeli citizenship to gain access to land for residential, commercial, agricultural, or other uses.

6. The Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law

• Prevents Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza who are married to Palestinian citizens of Israel from gaining residency or citizenship status, including those who were expelled from towns inside what became Israel in 1948. Forces thousands of Palestinian citizens of Israel to leave the country or live apart from their spouses and families.

7. The Nakba Law

• Bans public funding for institutions and organizations involved in commemorating the violent expulsion of three quarters of all Palestinians during Israel’s establishment as a Jewish-majority state in 1948, known to Palestinians as the “Nakba” (“catastrophe”).

 

https://imeu.org/article/the-7-most-racist-israeli-laws

Edited November 13, 2023 by moosehead

[dannydog]

When all Hamas command centres under hospitals and schools are destroyed. A unified agreement should be made to convince Egypt to open borders with UN aid to allow innocent Palestinians refugee status but then have Gaza returned to them once Hamas is destroyed along with all underground tunnel systems and command centres. The rebuild should then this time be overseen by all to make sure construction materials are used for repairs not for rebuilding militant structures. 

[RomanPer]

3 hours ago, Super19 said:

It's a tough war but Israel has the right to defend itself and wipe out Hamas. All those people marching for a ceasefire and liberation of Palestine are just sadly misinformed. Israel is doing the best it can to limit civilian casualties but it's hard to do so when Hamas are cowards and using human shields and have built bases at schools, refugee camps, hospitals, mosques, churches, and residential neighborhoods in Gaza. 

 

This is the Israeli perspective.

This is not “Israeli perspective”. These are facts.

[Bob Long]

25 minutes ago, Super19 said:

I think Israel has a right to exist, but not a right to opress Palestinians. 

 

I think Israel has settled itself as a powerful country now, with strong allies and a strong defense system. They cannot use their position to oppress in Gaza.

 

I also think Saudi and the ME has no interest in wiping Israel off the map.

 

Really, you think Iran wants Israel to exist?

[RomanPer]

In this video, Israeli soldiers leaving diesel fuel canisters near the Shifa hospital in order to allow hospital’s generators to run. Please note, these are the same Israeli soldiers who have been accused of genocide of Palestinians and indiscriminate bombing of the hospitals. And then Hamas terrorists steal the fuel instead of letting the hospital use it. Oh, I’m sure the “high morality” crowd here will yell “it’s Israeli propaganda”. Guess what? IDF doesn’t care. I don’t care.

 

 

[dannydog]

15 minutes ago, moosehead said:

The 7 most Racist Israeli laws..

 

 

1. The Jewish Nation-State Law

• One of Israel’s quasi-constitutional Basic Laws. Stipulates that the right to self-determination in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories “is unique to the Jewish people” and encourages racial segregation and discrimination against Palestinians in housing by directing the state to promote the “development of Jewish settlement as a national value.”

2. The Law of “Return”

• Gives Jews from anywhere in the world the right to immigrate to Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories and to automatically receive Israeli citizenship. At the same time, Israel denies indigenous Palestinians who were expelled during and after Israel’s establishment their legal right to return to their homeland because they aren’t Jewish and treats Palestinian citizens of the state, who comprise more than 20% of Israel’s population, as second-class citizens.

3. The Admissions Committee Law

• Authorizes hundreds of smaller towns to set up “admissions committees” to reject applications from Palestinians, LGBTQ people, and others deemed undesirable using criteria such as being “unsuitable to the social life of the community… or the social and cultural fabric of the town.”

4. Absentee Property Law and Land Acquisition Law

• Allows Israel’s government to expropriate land and other property belonging to Palestinians who were driven from their homes during the state’s establishment. The primary tool used by Israel to steal huge amounts of land and private property from Palestinians who were expelled and denied their right to return, including many internally displaced within Israel’s borders.

5. Israel Lands Law

• Another of Israel’s quasi-constitutional Basic Laws. Stipulates that ownership of state lands can only be transferred between the government and quasi-governmental agencies like the Jewish National Fund, which only leases land to Jews. Ninety-three percent of the land in Israel is state owned. Israel's discriminatory land policies make it extremely difficult for Palestinians with Israeli citizenship to gain access to land for residential, commercial, agricultural, or other uses.

6. The Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law

• Prevents Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza who are married to Palestinian citizens of Israel from gaining residency or citizenship status, including those who were expelled from towns inside what became Israel in 1948. Forces thousands of Palestinian citizens of Israel to leave the country or live apart from their spouses and families.

7. The Nakba Law

• Bans public funding for institutions and organizations involved in commemorating the violent expulsion of three quarters of all Palestinians during Israel’s establishment as a Jewish-majority state in 1948, known to Palestinians as the “Nakba” (“catastrophe”).

 

https://imeu.org/article/the-7-most-racist-israeli-laws

Unfortunately, most of these laws were made because Israel was under constant attack on its civilians and needed some form of protection from assaults from these areas. Israel’s military is only as OP because it has to be to exist . 

[moosehead]

14 minutes ago, dannydog said:

Unfortunately, most of these laws were made because Israel was under constant attack on its civilians and needed some form of protection from assaults from these areas. Israel’s military is only as OP because it has to be to exist . 

 

Whatever helps people sleep at night.   The human conscience is indeed very powerful......

 

Those IDF  that have murdered innocent  women and children should be charged with War Crimes. 

 

More than likely they will meet up with Hamas members after life..  they should wear light clothing.. It will be very warm where they get to.....

Edited November 13, 2023 by moosehead

[RomanPer]

This just happened to my Jewish friend on the Canada Line on the way to Richmond…

 

 

[dannydog]

49 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Whatever helps people sleep at night.   The human conscience is indeed very powerful......

 

Those IDF  that have murdered innocent  women and children should be charged with War Crimes. 

 

More than likely they will meet up with Hamas members after life..  they should wear light clothing.. It will be very warm where they get to.....

And those Arabs/Palestinians and Hamas and hesbollah have killed thousands of woman and children because they’re Jewish. It’s in their mantra!

[Super19]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

Really, you think Iran wants Israel to exist?

Israel has enough support in the ME. Saudi leading the way in making sure the ME doesn't go crazy against Israel.

[Ilunga]

 

As I have stated many times on this board, we should look for the things we share in common, that bring us together

 

In regards to Palestinians and Isrealis

 

" We don't eat pigs, you don't eat pigs, 

it seems it's been that way forever 

 

So if you don't eat pigs, and we don't eat pigs 

Why not, not eat pigs together " 

 

Tim Minchin 

[Optimist Prime]

22 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

This just happened to my Jewish friend on the Canada Line on the way to Richmond…

IMG_6533.mov 35.16 MB · 2 downloads  

 

I never side with the pitchforks and torches crowd, nine times in ten they are acting crazy.

[JIAHN]

3 hours ago, Warhippy said:

They uh....they don't get a voice dude.  That is about the single largest thing forgotten by people asking for answers or looking for justification.

 

Palestinians do not in fact have a voice here.  Hamas is not palestine or palestinians.  It is an organization that stole power and refuses to give it up.

 

People need to ask that question and then follow it up with why.  Then you get a better perspective.

 

I don't know WH

 

Seems to me there are Palestinians getting out and could speak up, and in regards to the other Arab states...you hear crickets regarding Hamas's actions.

 

But I do get what you say, about the ones inside Gaza

[Ilunga]

15 minutes ago, JIAHN said:

 

I don't know WH

 

Seems to me there are Palestinians getting out and could speak up, and in regards to the other Arab states...you hear crickets regarding Hamas's actions.

 

But I do get what you say, about the ones inside Gaza

 

Every now and again Palestinians do protest against Hamas.

Unfortunately for them, they don't live in societies like ours where we have freedom of speech.

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/gaza-hamas-demonstration-israel-blockade-palestinians-306b19228f9dd21f1036386ce3709672

 

 

 

A few weeks ago Gazans in Paris 

 

" I refuse to be associated with Hamas "

 

 

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231019-i-refuse-to-be-associated-with-hamas-gazans-in-paris-lament-ban-on-protests

 

 

Don't like using Fox however it's video of the Isreali ambassador to the US, Michael Herzog talking 

 

Palestinians " don't like us, but they don't like Hamas either " 

 

https://news.yahoo.com/palestinians-dont-us-dont-hamas-151437474.html 

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

"freedom of the press" globally:

Greenland, Northern Europe are the tops, Canada, USA, western Europe, Australia, South Africa and Argentina next best

Middle East: almost none existent. Asia, nonexistant. Africa, hardly any. You get the idea from the map.

 

Free Speech/Freedom of Expression: Darkest Blue is best, lightest green is worst:

 

[JIAHN]

23 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

"freedom of the press" globally:

Greenland, Northern Europe are the tops, Canada, USA, western Europe, Australia, South Africa and Argentina next best

Middle East: almost none existent. Asia, nonexistant. Africa, hardly any. You get the idea from the map.

 

Free Speech/Freedom of Expression: Darkest Blue is best, lightest green is worst:

 

 

You have to be wrong OP

Our Freedom fighters say just the opposite...

We have no rights!

[Ilunga]

42 minutes ago, Tocchetdontplaydat said:

 

Seems like a copout to me. Throw the rocks, then hide behind your own women and children, then claim you are being victimized. Meh not buying it. 

 

Israeli forces have no guilt because they are actually saving the lives of their own people. They are not required extend anything towards the Palestinians, who have harboured and nurtured this terrorist death culture.

 

Not sure why some have such a disconnect from the contextual reality.

 

Guilt ?

 

I am sure there are some Isreali soldiers who feel some sort of emotion when seeing the dead bodies of women and children.

It would be inhumane not to.

I don't believe that many Isreali soldiers are inhumane.

 

 

Before this particular conflict started, this documentary was made, I posted a longer version a while back. 

 

" Enemy " soldiers from both sides coming together for peace 

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

1 minute ago, Tocchetdontplaydat said:

 

Sorry I was referencing another one of his posts about "assauging guilt". 

 

 

 

 

 

I have posted a bunch of docos about Palestinians and Isrealis coming together to work towards peace. 

 

There are kind compassionate people from both sides.

 

In the doco thou shalt not kill, apart from documenting a young radical  settler group, it also tells the story of the Dawabshe family.

3 Palestinians including an 18 month old baby that were burned alive in an arson attack by settlers.

If you were the parent of those people what would you be teaching the survivor, your Grand son, a 7 year old that suffered severe burns but still lived ?

That Grandfather is teaching his grandson forgiveness not hate. 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/radicalised-youth/2018/11/13/thou-shalt-not-kill-israels-hilltop-youth 

 

" I am teaching Ahmed that you don't have to seek vengeance. That you do not have to kill.

Your vengeance must be your success "

 

 

Do you believe you are capable of such forgiveness ?

 

[Ilunga]

Just now, Tocchetdontplaydat said:

 

The IDF are not on a mission of vengeance. It is a mission of self preservation.

 

I don't believe you are getting the message I am putting out there. 

 

It is an endless cycle of vengeance for the better part of a century.

 

And while I am totally behind Isreal defending itself, Hamas will never destroy Isreal.

Even if Isreal couldn't take them down, 

which they can, the US would step in. 

 

It takes people like the Grandfather of that 7 year old boy, the ex soldiers in disturbing the peace, to end the cycle of vengeance.

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, Tocchetdontplaydat said:

So you think Israel should turn the other cheek and continue to absorb THOUSANDS of civilian casualties at any given time?

did you even bother to read his post directly above yours?

 

13 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

And while I am totally behind Isreal defending itself,

 

 

biggest issue in this thread is 60%, or more, of the people here are arguing shit nobody said!

[Super19]

3 minutes ago, Tocchetdontplaydat said:

 

So you think Israel should turn the other cheek and continue to absorb THOUSANDS of civilian casualties at any given time? Everyone is a pacifist/idealist until they get punched in the face, which is what has happened to Israel, recently and many times over. The other side has never acted in good faith and seems unable to do so.

 

Like, how many Israeli 9/11s need to take place before they are allowed to call in big brother America? Sorry, but that is some fantasyland nonsense.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/12/israel-hamas-war-data-shows-human-cost-of-conflict-through-the-years.html#:~:text=The data collated by CNBC,Israel over the same period.

 

Palestine are the ones who need to be worried about thousands of civillian casualties at any given times. Palestinians also need to be worried about being IDF prisoners at any given time

[Ilunga]

3 minutes ago, Tocchetdontplaydat said:

 

So you think Israel should turn the other cheek and continue to absorb THOUSANDS of civilian casualties at any given time? Everyone is a pacifist/idealist until they get punched in the face, which is what has happened to Israel, recently and many times over. The other side has never acted in good faith and seems unable to do so.

 

Like, how many Israeli 9/11s need to take place before they are allowed to call in big brother America? Sorry, but that is some fantasyland nonsense.

 

You just don't get forgiveness do you

 

As for your 9/ 11 reference, research how many Palestinians have died in the last 20 years compared to Isrealis.

There has been horrific acts on both sides over the last hundred years.

It is the need for revenge, for vengeance that fuels many extremists on both sides. 

 

What I am stating is the only chance of a lasting peace is that people from both sides overcome their need for vengeance and realise that peaceful coexistence is the only way forward.

 

As for the US waiting ?

 

2 carriers groups were sent in a matter of weeks.

Do you kniw much destructive power one carrier group is capable of ?