Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Ilunga said: You just don't get forgiveness do you As for your 9/ 11 reference, research how many Palestinians have died in the last 20 years compared to Isrealis. There has been horrific acts on both sides over the last hundred years. It is the need for revenge, for vengeance that fuels many extremists on both sides. What I am stating is the only chance of a lasting peace is that people from both sides overcome their need for vengeance and realise that peaceful coexistence is the only way forward. As for the US waiting ? 2 carriers groups were sent in a matter of weeks. Do you kniw much destructive power one carrier group is capable of ? Very true. Much of Hamas today is made up of the children who had survived the previous 4 wars. And how many children who survive this war will grow up with that same vengeance in their blood and become Hamas when they grow up? This is not how Israel will defeat Hamas. Freeing Gaza and the West Bank will do more to defeat Hamas than dropping bombs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 14 minutes ago, Super19 said: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/12/israel-hamas-war-data-shows-human-cost-of-conflict-through-the-years.html#:~:text=The data collated by CNBC,Israel over the same period. Palestine are the ones who need to be worried about thousands of civillian casualties at any given times. Palestinians also need to be worried about being IDF prisoners at any given time That what happens when you try to terrorize a guy with a bigger gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, Ilunga said: You just don't get forgiveness do you As for your 9/ 11 reference, research how many Palestinians have died in the last 20 years compared to Isrealis. There has been horrific acts on both sides over the last hundred years. It is the need for revenge, for vengeance that fuels many extremists on both sides. What I am stating is the only chance of a lasting peace is that people from both sides overcome their need for vengeance and realise that peaceful coexistence is the only way forward. As for the US waiting ? 2 carriers groups were sent in a matter of weeks. Do you kniw much destructive power one carrier group is capable of ? My friend, Israel cannot simply lay down their arms. If Hamas lay down their arms, then there would be peace. If Israel laid down their arms, then there would be no Israel. We all know this to be true, which is why Israel HAS NO CHOICE but to continue to fight until the opposition is destroyed... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just now, RomanPer said: That what happens when you try to terrorize a guy with a bigger gun. Put a people in a cage and oppress them, see a resistance force come out, bomb them and oppress them more. Rinse and repeat. But looks like Israel doesn't want a repeat, maybe that's why 11k+ dead and God knows how many more haven been injured in the past month already, with Gaza being reduced to ruins more and more each passing day. And yet you say genocide is not a worry right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: My friend, Israel cannot simply lay down their arms. If Hamas lay down their arms, then there would be peace. If Israel laid down their arms, then there would be no Israel. We all know this to be true, which is why Israel HAS NO CHOICE but to continue to fight until the opposition is destroyed... Do you think Hamas has the firepower to destroy Israel? They don't. And just yesterday Saudi and other Arab/Muslim nations protected Israel's interests after they blocked a vote to sanction and cut ties with Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Super19 said: Do you think Hamas has the firepower to destroy Israel? They don't. And just yesterday Saudi and other Arab/Muslim nations protected Israel's interests after they blocked a vote to sanction and cut ties with Israel. Terrorism doesn't need a lot of firepower to maintain fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: My friend, Israel cannot simply lay down their arms. If Hamas lay down their arms, then there would be peace. If Israel laid down their arms, then there would be no Israel. We all know this to be true, which is why Israel HAS NO CHOICE but to continue to fight until the opposition is destroyed... I have never stated Isreal should lay down their arms. I don't know how many times I have to say that they have the right to defend themselves. Again what I am stating that people who can forgive, that advocate for peace are the only hope for peaceful coexistence. I will post this again Note the lyrics " When all the soldiers lay their weapons down " " There will be sorrow no more " Imagine if most of the people in the world believed as I do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Terrorism doesn't need a lot of firepower to maintain fear. It's like you don't understand that Israel has been oppressing Palestine for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 9 minutes ago, Super19 said: Do you think Hamas has the firepower to destroy Israel? They don't. And just yesterday Saudi and other Arab/Muslim nations protected Israel's interests after they blocked a vote to sanction and cut ties with Israel. I'm talking about the entire Arab world that would go after Israel if they laid down their arms. It's literally in the Quran that Israel cannot exist... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Super19 said: It's like you don't understand that Israel has been oppressing Palestine for decades. It's like you have a narrow narrative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soggy Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I'm talking about the entire Arab world that would go after Israel if they laid down their arms. It's literally in the Quran that Israel cannot exist... where? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 9 minutes ago, Bob Long said: It's like you have a narrow narrative. What do you think my narrow narrative is? Just so we can be on the same page of what we are even arguing about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Elias Pettersson Posted November 13, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted November 13, 2023 23 minutes ago, Super19 said: Put a people in a cage and oppress them, see a resistance force come out, bomb them and oppress them more. Rinse and repeat. But looks like Israel doesn't want a repeat, maybe that's why 11k+ dead and God knows how many more haven been injured in the past month already, with Gaza being reduced to ruins more and more each passing day. And yet you say genocide is not a worry right now. Over 2 million Arabs live in Israel and are citizens with passports. Tell me again about ethnic cleansing and genocide? Do you see now how dumb those statements sound when 21% of the population of Israel are Arabs with passports? 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 27 minutes ago, Super19 said: Put a people in a cage and oppress them, see a resistance force come out, bomb them and oppress them more. Rinse and repeat. But looks like Israel doesn't want a repeat, maybe that's why 11k+ dead and God knows how many more haven been injured in the past month already, with Gaza being reduced to ruins more and more each passing day. And yet you say genocide is not a worry right now. Honestly the larger worry is hamas command and control leadership. They are murderous scum and need to be removed from the board. I know it is tragic, but how many thousands will die in the future if Hamas is not dealt with now? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Over 2 million Arabs live in Israel and are citizens with passports. Tell me again about ethnic cleansing and genocide? Do you see now how dumb those statements sound when 21% of the population of Israel are Arabs with passports? This is about the Palestenians living in Gaza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 14 minutes ago, soggy said: where? Quranic verses about war between Israel and Palestine (islamweb.net) We can consider the following verse Allah Says (interpretation of meaning): {So, when the promise came for the first of the two, We sent against you slaves of Ours given to terrible warfare. They entered the very innermost parts of your homes. And it was a promise (completely) fulfilled.}[17:5] as an indication to the war that will take place between the Muslims and the Jews. Allah mentioned this after having mentioned what the Romans inflicted on the Jews. Al Hafiz Ibn Katheer interprets the verse: "…… but if you return (to sins), We shall return (to Our Punishment). ………"[17:8] by saying whenever you return to dissoluteness and mischief Allah makes you endure punishment in this life along with the punishment He will inflict on you on the Day of Judgement. As for our battle with the Jews it is authentically narrated in the Sunnah. No doubt that the end of the Jews will be by the hands of the Muslims. Al Bukhari and Muslim reported from Abu Hurairah that he narrated that the Prophet said: "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him." (Reported by Imam Bukhari) Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) also said: The Last Hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say so, for it is the tree of the Jews. (Reported by Imam Muslim) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Super19 said: This is about the Palestenians living in Gaza. Well, if one of us gets to state what 'this is about' i will go with the thread title: Hammas Attacking Israel. That is what this is about. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soggy Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Quranic verses about war between Israel and Palestine (islamweb.net) We can consider the following verse Allah Says (interpretation of meaning): {So, when the promise came for the first of the two, We sent against you slaves of Ours given to terrible warfare. They entered the very innermost parts of your homes. And it was a promise (completely) fulfilled.}[17:5] as an indication to the war that will take place between the Muslims and the Jews. Allah mentioned this after having mentioned what the Romans inflicted on the Jews. Al Hafiz Ibn Katheer interprets the verse: "…… but if you return (to sins), We shall return (to Our Punishment). ………"[17:8] by saying whenever you return to dissoluteness and mischief Allah makes you endure punishment in this life along with the punishment He will inflict on you on the Day of Judgement. As for our battle with the Jews it is authentically narrated in the Sunnah. No doubt that the end of the Jews will be by the hands of the Muslims. Al Bukhari and Muslim reported from Abu Hurairah that he narrated that the Prophet said: "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him." (Reported by Imam Bukhari) Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) also said: The Last Hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say so, for it is the tree of the Jews. (Reported by Imam Muslim) thats not the quran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: Honestly the larger worry is hamas command and control leadership. They are murderous scum and need to be removed from the board. I know it is tragic, but how many thousands will die in the future if Hamas is not dealt with now? Honestly I agree with you that Hamas needs to be wiped out, I just don't think this is the way to do it. Part of Hamas is terroristic and power hungry in nature, but part of it is also a resistance seeking vengeance and liberation. I think if Israel is held accountable for the transgressions Israel has imposed on Gaza over the recent decades, and Israel lifts its forces of oppression in Gaza, it would have gone a long way for peace in that region. There are many many accounts of brutal Israeli oppression in Gaza going back decades. But now at this point I don't know how this situation can be salvaged. Rebuilding Gaza is going to be costly. It's sad it's come down to this, I really think the world failed the Palestinians. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, Super19 said: This is about the Palestenians living in Gaza. Yes, those Palestinians are currently being governed by a terrorist organization that committed a terrorist attack on Israel on October 7. This is what the entire thread is about. Israel is now defending themselves and has promised to destroy Hamas once and for all so that they never have to worry about any future terrorist attacks. Similar to when the US went after Osama Bin Laden. Once they took him out and destroyed the Taliban there was never another terrorist attack on US soil. In a time of war, there are unfortunately casualties and innocent people die. This is unfortunate but happens in every war. Hamas can stop this war tomorrow by simply laying down their arms and surrendering. They would never do that though because they are terrorists. They will fight until the death... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 9 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: Well, if one of us gets to state what 'this is about' i will go with the thread title: Hammas Attacking Israel. That is what this is about. Have there been any updates on how Hamas terrorists were able to infiltrate Israeli intelligence and defense systems for hours? I mean they breached this super strong defense via paragliders, when supposedly Israel has eyes and ears everywhere, especially along the border. It's an honest question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, soggy said: thats not the quran The Hadith are basically Muhammad's own words. So, it's basically the same thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: The Hadith are basically Muhammad's own words. So, it's basically the same thing... You must be a 'Sunni' Edited November 13, 2023 by Super19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soggy Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: The Hadith are basically Muhammad's own words. So, it's basically the same thing... thats wildly incorrect but this thread is radioactive wasteland so im gonna go now 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Super19 said: Put a people in a cage and oppress them, see a resistance force come out, bomb them and oppress them more. Rinse and repeat. But looks like Israel doesn't want a repeat, maybe that's why 11k+ dead and God knows how many more haven been injured in the past month already, with Gaza being reduced to ruins more and more each passing day. And yet you say genocide is not a worry right now. Keep on telling yourself about putting people in a cage. It always starts the same way - Palestinian terror, Israel responds, all the idealist around the world forget about the initial terror attack and blame everything on Israel. And on and on it goes. What would you do in this situation if you were Israel? It’s not keeping people in a cage, it’s simple attempt to survive and protect yourself. Any country in the world, if the question comes up - protect your own citizens will always come first. To date every representative of Palestinian community representing them in negotiations, at some stage of their life was crystal clear that their ultimate goal is to destroy all of Israel and any negotiations is just a temporary step on the way for their ultimate goal. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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