Satchmo Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, moosehead said: That makes no difference. Israel needs to start respecting basic human rights of all its inhabitants. Sorry but you are on a .... what·a·bout·ism /ˌ(h)wədəˈboudizəm/ noun BRITISH the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue. "the parliamentary hearing appeared Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Others, with sin, will catch it and throw it back. This whole thread is 95% whataboutism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, moosehead said: Everyone here respects Israel's right to exist. People just want to see an Israel that does not discriminate against their minorities and grants freedom and equality to all their citizens / inhabitants... ( as many there are actually denied full citizenship due to oppresive government policies. ) No, you don't. Just because you write it doesn't make it so. Majority of your other posts speaks volume and the last one the most. It would have been a completely different conversation face to face... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Palestinians throw gay man off 20 story roof: crickets. Israel is still working on laws to allow gay marriage. SAMESIES. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 In the last hour or so. an hour ago - 31°31′N 34°26′E Picture circulating online shows troops of the Israeli army's Golani Brigade inside Gaza's parliament building in Gaza City, after capturing the site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Now I don't really expect anyone to actually believe this western mainstream media propaganda but here it is anyway... Hamas has command node under Al-Shifa hospital, US official says A US official with knowledge of American intelligence says Hamas has a command node under the Al-Shifa hospital, uses fuel intended for it and its fighters regularly cluster in and around Gaza’s largest hospital. The information comes after comments made Sunday by a top White House official that Hamas is using hospitals and civilian facilities. “You can see even from open-source reporting that Hamas does use hospitals, along with a lot of other civilian facilities, for command-and-control, for storing weapons, for housing its fighters,” National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said on CNN’s State of the Union. “Without getting into this specific hospital or that specific claim, this is Hamas’ track record, both historically and in this conflict.” https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/13/politics/al-shifa-hospital-us-intelligence/index.html 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 ^ and mosques and schools and UN spaces. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddikulus Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said: Palestinians throw gay man off 20 story roof: crickets. Israel is still working on laws to allow gay marriage. SAMESIES. Pretty sure the Russians don't throw gay people off rooftops as well, no one is actually crowing about how amazing the LGBT rights are in Russia. Israel is being run by a right-wing government, these governments merely tolerate gay people and don't consider them deserving of the same rights as regular citizens. @moosehead is absolutely right that its a low bar if you want to say you are doing better than the Islamic countries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 33 minutes ago, moosehead said: Everyone here respects Israel's right to exist. People just want to see an Israel that does not discriminate against their minorities and grants freedom and equality to all their citizens / inhabitants... ( as many there are actually denied full citizenship due to oppresive government policies. ) Which Israeli citizens are denied full citizenship? You do realize that according to peace treaties, Israel cannot grant Palestinians citizenship? They are governed by the Palestinian Authority. Similarly Israelis have no rights under the Palestinian Authority. It's two seperate governments with two separate groups of citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, Riddikulus said: Pretty sure the Russians don't throw gay people off rooftops as well, no one is actually crowing about how amazing the LGBT rights are in Russia. Israel is being run by a right-wing government, these governments merely tolerate gay people and don't consider them deserving of the same rights as regular citizens. @moosehead is absolutely right that its a low bar if you want to say you are doing better than the Islamic countries. the best nation in the Middle East on gay rights by a mile is a low bar? K. And that man with the IED belt is just making a fashion statement, i get it now, how could i be so bliind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, Riddikulus said: Pretty sure the Russians don't throw gay people off rooftops as well, no one is actually crowing about how amazing the LGBT rights are in Russia. Israel is being run by a right-wing government, these governments merely tolerate gay people and don't consider them deserving of the same rights as regular citizens. @moosehead is absolutely right that its a low bar if you want to say you are doing better than the Islamic countries. Who was it that recently said 'Whataboutism is never a convincing argument? That may be a chirp, but it also stands as proof that whataboutism is very hard for anyone to resist in a place like this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshiyoshi Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, Riddikulus said: Pretty sure the Russians don't throw gay people off rooftops as well, no one is actually crowing about how amazing the LGBT rights are in Russia. Israel is being run by a right-wing government, these governments merely tolerate gay people and don't consider them deserving of the same rights as regular citizens. @moosehead is absolutely right that its a low bar if you want to say you are doing better than the Islamic countries. Russia doesnt use rooftops, thats what windows are for 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddikulus Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just now, Satchmo said: Who was it that recently said 'Whataboutism is never a convincing argument? That may be a chirp, but it also stands as proof that whataboutism is very hard for anyone to resist in a place like this. The original discussion was about about Israel's record on LGBT rights. @moosehead's argument is that it wasn't stellar, to which the response was whataboutism about the record of the other Middle East countries. You are right whataboutism is never a convincing argument, my Russia example was just illustrating the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 41 minutes ago, moosehead said: None but that is a low bar. PInkwashing is bragging about being LGBT friendly.... but still Israel still denies LGBT community their basic human rights.... Great photo op though... Pinkwashing... Stop with your hate on the Jewish people. Every post you make is an effort to discredit other posts about Israel and the Jewish people. I posted about a Jewish soldier placing an LGBTQ flag in Gaza, and your immediate response to that post is “pink washing”? Why? Why even bring that up? Hate much? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) Not many people on the planet have more experience and insight into the Israel/Palestinian situation than Chris Hedges.......this is a disturbing, yet unsurprising take on the situation unfolding on the ground. Edited November 13, 2023 by stawns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddikulus Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: the best nation in the Middle East on gay rights by a mile is a low bar? K. And that man with the IED belt is just making a fashion statement, i get it now, how could i be so bliind. Quite literally the lowest bar possible. LGBT rights in the Middle East - Wikipedia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Riddikulus said: Quite literally the lowest bar possible. LGBT rights in the Middle East - Wikipedia I honestly don't even know what you mean by this... the best in a given stack of data is bad cuz why? Please don't answer, it is pointless, i am speaking rhetorically. Have a good day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just now, Riddikulus said: The original discussion was about about Israel's record on LGBT rights. @moosehead's argument is that it wasn't stellar, to which the response was whataboutism about the record of the other Middle East countries. You are right whataboutism is never a convincing argument, my Russia example was just illustrating the same. You will find me guilty of visiting your profile page and looking for content because I remembered one of your recent posts. 'Whataboutism is never a convincing argument' were your words, not mine. Personally, while I don't like it much theoretically, I think in practice whataboutism can be part of many a convincing argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddikulus Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just now, Optimist Prime said: I honestly don't even know what you mean by this... the best in a given stack of data is bad cuz why? Please don't answer, it is pointless, i am speaking rhetorically. Have a good day. The Muslim majority countries have same of the worst record of human rights for LGBT communities. If you want to brag that you are best in a given stack of the worst, that means that you aren't very good at something to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just now, Riddikulus said: The Muslim majority countries have same of the worst record of human rights for LGBT communities. If you want to brag that you are best in a given stack of the worst, that means that you aren't very good at something to begin with. Who is bragging about being the best? Remember, this all started with a chirp at Israel's LGBT rights record. That chirp probably should not have been made at all and if it had not we would not be on this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddikulus Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, Satchmo said: You will find me guilty of visiting your profile page and looking for content because I remembered one of your recent posts. 'Whataboutism is never a convincing argument' were your words, not mine. Personally, while I don't like it much theoretically, I think in practice whataboutism can be part of many a convincing argument. I don't mind, if you believe that you are spotting inconsistencies with my posting history then you are free to point out anything you would like. I can always clarify my thoughts. Keep in mind the topic being discussed was LGBT rights in Israel, pointing out the rights in Palestine or any other Middle East country was the first instance of whataboutism. I used my Russia example to illustrate that it wasn't a convincing argument. We can agree to disagree on your last point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshiyoshi Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Honestly discussing LGBT rights in this thread is a complete misdirect from the real issue. Both sides would get a failing grade so calling either side out on it in regards to the war is just pushing propaganda. It isnt relevant to the situation at all and is just being used as a tool to divide people and confuse the real issues here. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddikulus Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, Satchmo said: Who is bragging about being the best? Remember, this all started with a chirp at Israel's LGBT rights record. That chirp probably should not have been made at all and if it had not we would not be on this topic. You saw it as a chirp, I saw it as an attempt to start a real conversation on LGBT rights. I am not LGBT, but if I were I would be tired of being used as a prop for virtue signaling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 44 minutes ago, Riddikulus said: The Muslim majority countries have same of the worst record of human rights for LGBT communities. If you want to brag that you are best in a given stack of the worst, that means that you aren't very good at something to begin with. Palestinians: We kill gay people. Israeli's: we don't. You: that is a pretty low bar. Not killing gay people is just slightly better than killing gay people. Do you see how that reads back now? lets go to 1944 Germany Germans: we kill jews. Allies: we don't You: that is a pretty low bar. Now does it read back to you the way it reads back to me? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 15 minutes ago, Riddikulus said: You saw it as a chirp, I saw it as an attempt to start a real conversation on LGBT rights. I am not LGBT, but if I were I would be tired of being used as a prop for virtue signaling. Does this post signal what you are thinking, or does your Vintage response to YoshjYoshi's post signal what you are thinking? One seems to back an attempt to start a real conversation on LGBT rights; the other seems to think it an unnecessary topic for discussion. Anyway, it looks like we could go on and on.... Truce? (or at lease ceasefire?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 I am gonna take another break from this thread today, the hamas apologists are getting to me. edit: tried and failed. lol at me. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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