Hamas attacking Israel

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

So because they're neighbouring nations or in the region they're obligated?

Yes, I would think so.  That's what neighbors do.  (or should, in my opinion)

[Super19]

Just now, Warhippy said:

No.

 

Because wrong is wrong period.

 

Disgusting behavior and the celebration of slaughter based on bias is honestly just a highlight of how little the world and humanity has truly progressed 

If Israelis were celebrating the death of Hamas, I'd give em that.

 

But there are so many videos from Israelis that are happy that Gaza is in ruins and Palestianians are dead and dying. It goes from does Israel want Hamas gone or Palestine gone, because judging by the people they want Palestine gone.

 

And I argue that all Palestenians want is a free Gaza, free West Bank, and an end to occupation. And yes they'd also want better leadership. But this war has effed them up. 

[Satchmo]

Just now, Super19 said:

If Israelis were celebrating the death of Hamas, I'd give em that.

 

But there are so many videos from Israelis that are happy that Gaza is in ruins and Palestianians are dead and dying. It goes from does Israel want Hamas gone or Palestine gone, because judging by the people they want Palestine gone.

 

And I argue that all Palestenians want is a free Gaza, free West Bank, and an end to occupation. And yes they'd also want better leadership. But this war has effed them up. 

And we've seen others of Palestinians laughing as rockets approach Israel.

 

I think all it proves is that people can really suck at being good people.

[Yoshiyoshi]

Once again a reminder, those videos you see of people celebrating the deaths on the other side, dont assume they are all true. There is an active propaganda campaign by Russia to stir up hate and division with this conflict and other political issues. Do not use those as evidence to support your position unless you want to be called out for spreading propaganda and fake info.

[moosehead]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

 

 

Weird...   how almost all countries tend not to vote for ethnic cleansing....

 

Hard to imagine. 

 

Is this a case of one past  Settler nation ( Canada ) supporting another CURRENT  Settler nation Israel

 

145-7

 

Most Canadians are  rightfully embarrassed i am sure

Edited November 13, 2023 by moosehead

[Super19]

6 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

Once again a reminder, those videos you see of people celebrating the deaths on the other side, dont assume they are all true. There is an active propaganda campaign by Russia to stir up hate and division with this conflict and other political issues. Do not use those as evidence to support your position unless you want to be called out for spreading propaganda and fake info.

True, but it's not just one video, there's many. And while that specific one I cannot say, there are more and seems to be a real sentiment from some people on the streets there.

[moosehead]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Stop with your hate on the Jewish people. Every post you make is an effort to discredit other posts about Israel and the Jewish people. 
 

I posted about a Jewish soldier placing an LGBTQ flag in Gaza, and your immediate response to that post is “pink washing”?  Why?  Why even bring that up?  Hate much? 

 

I point out facts about Israel  government discrimination of their minorities..  

 

 

I call Oppression / Occupation / racist / genocide / ethnic cleansing / Apartheid  of Israel minorities = Hate.

 

Maybe you are confused .  All humans are equal and should by law have the same rights. 

 

Maybe it is past time for Israel government to focus on Truth and Reconciliation. 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by moosehead

[Satchmo]

13 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Weird...   how almost all countries tend not to vote for ethnic cleansing....

 

Hard to imagine. 

 

Is this a case of one past  Settler nation ( Canada ) supporting another CURRENT  Settler nation Israel

 

145-7

 

Most Canadians are  rightfully embarrassed i am sure

After the lengthy debate over the meaning of the word genocide, are we now going to begin one on the definition of the term 'ethnic cleansing'?

 

You have a point of view which I accept and respect but I think that's a bit over the top.

 

I'm also not sure if I can agree with what Canadians are most embarrassed about.   It's likely Nickleback.   Maybe Justin Beiber.

 

BTW - please name a nation that is not a settler nation.

[moosehead]

4 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

After the lengthy debate over the meaning of the word genocide, are we now going to begin one on the definition of the term 'ethnic cleansing'?

 

You have a point of view which I accept and respect but I think that's a bit over the top.

 

I'm also not sure if I can agree with what Canadians are most embarrassed about.   It's likely Nickleback.   Maybe Justin Beiber.

 

BTW - please name a nation that is not a settler nation.

 

Zionism as settler colonialism

Zionism and the Israeli–Palestinian conflict have been described as a form of settler colonialism.^[1] Patrick Wolfe, an influential theorist of settler colonial studies, considered Israel an example and discussed it in his 2006 essay "Settler colonialism and the elimination of the native".^[2][3][4] 

 

Other scholars who have used a settler-colonial analysis of Israel/Palestine include Edward Said, Rashid Khalidi, Fayez Sayegh, Maxime Rodinson, George Jabbour, Ibrahim Abu-Lughod, Baha Abu-Laban, Jamil Hilal, and Rosemary Sayigh.^[5] Many of the fathers of Zionism themselves described it as colonialism, such as Vladimir Jabotinsky who said "Zionism is a colonization adventure".^[6]

 

The settler colonial paradigm as applied to the Israel–Palestine case has been increasingly developing in the twenty-first century. The paradigm's reformulation is led by Palestinian scholars in Israel.^[1] The current conceptual framework emerged in response to shifts in the political landscape in the mid-1990s that "reframed the history of the Nakba as enduring" in a process led by Palestinian scholars in Israel. The use of this paradigm has increased in recent years among activists, and "to a lesser extent" within academic circles.^[7][a]

 

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism_as_settler_colonialism#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWolfe2006-2}

[5forFighting]

43 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Can I ask why Canada can't?  Or Italy?  The UK?  

 

Almost 2 million people are caught in a war zone.  Canada has the room being such a large nation, why can't we just do it?

Answering a question with a question isn't an answer. If you don't know the reason, just state that. We have our own housing and immigration issues here already. Flying them thousands of kilometers makes no sense when they are surrounded by nations that share 98% of their cultural views. 

[5forFighting]

26 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Weird...   how almost all countries tend not to vote for ethnic cleansing....

 

Hard to imagine. 

 

Is this a case of one past  Settler nation ( Canada ) supporting another CURRENT  Settler nation Israel

 

145-7

 

Most Canadians are  rightfully embarrassed i am sure

Every nation is a settler nation. There wasn't one nation that hasn't been overtaken by another in history. 

[Satchmo]

Just now, moosehead said:

 

Zionism as settler colonialism

Zionism and the Israeli–Palestinian conflict have been described as a form of settler colonialism.^[1] Patrick Wolfe, an influential theorist of settler colonial studies, considered Israel an example and discussed it in his 2006 essay "Settler colonialism and the elimination of the native".^[2][3][4] 

 

Other scholars who have used a settler-colonial analysis of Israel/Palestine include Edward Said, Rashid Khalidi, Fayez Sayegh, Maxime Rodinson, George Jabbour, Ibrahim Abu-Lughod, Baha Abu-Laban, Jamil Hilal, and Rosemary Sayigh.^[5] Many of the fathers of Zionism themselves described it as colonialism, such as Vladimir Jabotinsky who said "Zionism is a colonization adventure".^[6]

 

The settler colonial paradigm as applied to the Israel–Palestine case has been increasingly developing in the twenty-first century. The paradigm's reformulation is led by Palestinian scholars in Israel.^[1] The current conceptual framework emerged in response to shifts in the political landscape in the mid-1990s that "reframed the history of the Nakba as enduring" in a process led by Palestinian scholars in Israel. The use of this paradigm has increased in recent years among activists, and "to a lesser extent" within academic circles.^[7][a]

 

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism_as_settler_colonialism#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWolfe2006-2}

Almost a good comeback but does not correspond well to what I posted.

[Alflives]

26 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Weird...   how almost all countries tend not to vote for ethnic cleansing....

 

Hard to imagine. 

 

Is this a case of one past  Settler nation ( Canada ) supporting another CURRENT  Settler nation Israel

 

145-7

 

Most Canadians are  rightfully embarrassed i am sure

Not too sure what this point (Embarrassed Canadians) has to do with Hamas attacking Israel October 7 and the Israeli response? 
Anyway, I wonder how much longer it will take for the IDF to eliminate Hamas and make Gaza safe for the Palestinians? 

[Super19]

10 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

After the lengthy debate over the meaning of the word genocide, are we now going to begin one on the definition of the term 'ethnic cleansing'?

 

You have a point of view which I accept and respect but I think that's a bit over the top.

 

I'm also not sure if I can agree with what Canadians are most embarrassed about.   It's likely Nickleback.   Maybe Justin Beiber.

 

BTW - please name a nation that is not a settler nation.

Well let's just call it what it is. Canada refused to condemn illegal settlements. 

 

PS: Nickleback is good guilty pleasure for sure

[moosehead]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Not too sure what this point (Embarrassed Canadians) has to do with Hamas attacking Israel October 7 and the Israeli response? 
Anyway, I wonder how much longer it will take for the IDF to eliminate Hamas and make Gaza safe for the Palestinians? 

 

I wonder how long it will take for Israel government to make Israel safe for Palestinians..... 

 

Members of the Euro-Med Monitor team have documented in this report the killing of 204 Palestinians by Israeli army forces in 2022, 142 of whom were from the West Bank (69.6%), 37 from the Gaza Strip (18.1%), 20 from Jerusalem (9.8%), and five from the Arab localities within Israel (2.4%)

Edited November 13, 2023 by moosehead

[Boudrias]

27 minutes ago, Super19 said:

True, but it's not just one video, there's many. And while that specific one I cannot say, there are more and seems to be a real sentiment from some people on the streets there.

I assume that the dancing in the streets on 9/11 was also Russian propaganda? No matter they were only Americans just like the 1200 Israelis on Oct 7th were just Jews. 

[Alflives]

Just now, moosehead said:

 

I wonder how long it will take for Israel government to make Israel safe for Palestinians..... 

didn’t @RomanPerpost there’s a lot of Palestinian people living in Israel? 
Anywsy, it certainly appears it’s Hamas who (by their methods of hiding under civilian buildings, and stealing supplies intended for those civilians) who are the oppressors in Gaza. 
I wonder what happens to a Palestinian person in Gaza who speaks out against Hamas? 

[Satchmo]

Just now, Super19 said:

Well let's just call it what it is. Canada refused to condemn illegal settlements. 

 

PS: Nickleback is good guilty pleasure for sure

Nice to see we are walking back from 'ethnic cleansing'  (If indeed we are.)   That was my main point.

 

It's politics and backroom deals.  Who can know what Canada really thinks based solely on how it votes? 

 

I don't know if you and I are ever going to be in full agreement on things.   Not on Nickleback anyway.

[moosehead]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

didn’t @RomanPerpost there’s a lot of Palestinian people living in Israel? 
Anywsy, it certainly appears it’s Hamas who (by their methods of hiding under civilian buildings, and stealing supplies intended for those civilians) who are the oppressors in Gaza. 
I wonder what happens to a Palestinian person in Gaza who speaks out against Hamas? 

 

I wonder what happens to an Israeli in Israel that speaks out against the Israel IDF  attack on Gaza...... 

Edited November 13, 2023 by moosehead

[moosehead]

2 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Nice to see we are walking back from 'ethnic cleansing'  (If indeed we are.)   That was my main point.

 

It's politics and backroom deals.  Who can know what Canada really thinks based solely on how it votes? 

 

I don't know if you and I are ever going to be in full agreement on things.   Not on Nickleback anyway.

 

 

There is a grave danger that what we are witnessing may be a repeat of the 1948 Nakba, and the 1967 Naksa, yet on a larger scale. The international community must do everything to stop this from happening again,” the UN expert said. She noted that Israeli public officials have openly advocated for another Nakba, the term for the events of 1947-1949 when over 750,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes and lands during the hostilities that led to the establishment of the State of Israel. The Naksa, which led to Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in 1967, displaced 350,000 Palestinians.

 

“Israel has already carried out mass ethnic cleansing of Palestinians under the fog of war,” the expert said. “Again, in the name of self-defence, Israel is seeking to justify what would amount to ethnic cleansing.

 

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/un-expert-warns-new-instance-mass-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-calls#:~:text=The Naksa%2C which led to,war%2C” the expert said.

[moosehead]

She is a bit more qualified than you or I....

 

Francesca Albanese is an Affiliate Scholar at the Institute for the Study of International Migration at Georgetown University, and a Senior Advisor on Migration and Forced Displacement for the think tank Arab Renaissance for Democracy and Development (ARDD), where she co-founded the Global Network on the Question of Palestine (GNQP), a coalition of renowned professional and scholars engaged in/on Israel/Palestine. She has published widely on the legal situation in Israel/Palestine; her latest book, Palestinian Refugees in International Law (Oxford University Press, 2020), offers a comprehensive legal analysis of the situation of Palestinian refugees from its origins to modern-day reality. She regularly teaches and lectures on International Law and Forced Displacement in European and Arab universities, and speaks frequently at conferences and public events on the legal situation of Palestine. She worked for a decade as a human rights expert for the United Nations, including the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights and the Relief and Work Agency for Palestine Refugees. In these capacities, she advised the UN, governments, and civil society across the Middle East, North Africa, and the Asia Pacific, on the enforcement of human rights norms, especially for vulnerable groups including refugees and migrants. She holds a Law Degree (with honors) from the University of Pisa and an LLM in Human Rights from the University of London, SOAS. She is currently completing her PhD in International Refugee Law at Amsterdam University Law Faculty. An Italian national, she is married with two young children.

[Alflives]

Just now, moosehead said:

 

I wonder what happens to an Israeli in Israel that speaks out against the this Israel attack on Gaza...... 

Weren’t the young people, of which so many were brutally murdered October 7 at that open air concert by Hamas, actually raising money for the people of Gaza? 

 

[Super19]

5 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Nice to see we are walking back from 'ethnic cleansing'  (If indeed we are.)   That was my main point.

 

It's politics and backroom deals.  Who can know what Canada really thinks based solely on how it votes? 

 

I don't know if you and I are ever going to be in full agreement on things.   Not on Nickleback anyway.

How the hell did we wind up like this?

[Optimist Prime]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I wonder what happens to a Palestinian person in Gaza who speaks out against Hamas? 

They were and are tossed off the roofs of skyrises in Gaza. 

9 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

I wonder what happens to an Israeli in Israel that speaks out against the Israel IDF  attack on Gaza...... 

I played hacky sack with an Israeli university kid in ...i wanna say 2001....who was almost always protesting Israel's policies towards Gaza, just outside Tel Aviv. He was alive and well and in university playing hacky sack, but he did say that older Israeli's yelled at him a lot when he holds his sign in teh streets. 

 

edit: side note, he might be close to 40 now??ish? and I am curious to know if he today still feels the way he did then or if he maybe is in uniform today in Gaza inside an APC beside Hamas HQ, i mean a hospital. 

[Satchmo]

Just now, moosehead said:

 

 

There is a grave danger that what we are witnessing may be a repeat of the 1948 Nakba, and the 1967 Naksa, yet on a larger scale. The international community must do everything to stop this from happening again,” the UN expert said. She noted that Israeli public officials have openly advocated for another Nakba, the term for the events of 1947-1949 when over 750,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes and lands during the hostilities that led to the establishment of the State of Israel. The Naksa, which led to Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in 1967, displaced 350,000 Palestinians.

 

“Israel has already carried out mass ethnic cleansing of Palestinians under the fog of war,” the expert said. “Again, in the name of self-defence, Israel is seeking to justify what would amount to ethnic cleansing.

 

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/un-expert-warns-new-instance-mass-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-calls#:~:text=The Naksa%2C which led to,war%2C” the expert said.

Thanks for letting me know.

 

People say things.   After they say those things it is very easy to find and quote them.   Then we get to argue if those people, regardless of what position they may hold, are telling the truth, and/or knows what they are talking about, and/or has a hidden agenda or bias that impacts what they have said.