Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said: They were and are tossed off the roofs of skyrises in Gaza. I played hacky sack with an Israeli university kid in ...i wanna say 2001....who was almost always protesting Israel's policies towards Gaza, just outside Tel Aviv. He was alive and well and in university playing hacky sack, but he did say that older Israeli's yelled at him a lot when he holds his sign in teh streets. Or maybe all that happen is they won't hire anyone from Harvard anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 3 hours ago - 31°31′N 34°27′E Israeli army spokesman exposes a 20 meter Hamas tunnel under Rantisi Hospital in Gaza 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Super19 said: Or maybe all that happen is they won't hire anyone from Harvard anymore. Did the police throw these people off of a roof? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, Satchmo said: Nice to see we are walking back from 'ethnic cleansing' (If indeed we are.) That was my main point. It's politics and backroom deals. Who can know what Canada really thinks based solely on how it votes? I don't know if you and I are ever going to be in full agreement on things. Not on Nickleback anyway. What do you think are the repercussions from all this damage in Gaza rn, for the palestinian people? How many more do you think will die until Israel stops? How many need to die/get injured/get displaced and how much more destruction to Gaza needs to be caused for you to be concerned of a genocide. Where is the line, for you, where you step back and say whoa, this is too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said: 3 hours ago - 31°31′N 34°27′E Israeli army spokesman exposes a 20 meter Hamas tunnel under Rantisi Hospital in Gaza How much money did it cost to build these tunnel systems. Then add all the supplies. Where did Hamas get all this money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Did the police throw these people off of a roof? Did the police bulldoze their homes and evict them from their property..... then gave the property to non israeli settlers that actually came from another country ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, moosehead said: She is a bit more qualified than you or I.... Francesca Albanese is an Affiliate Scholar at the Institute for the Study of International Migration at Georgetown University, and a Senior Advisor on Migration and Forced Displacement for the think tank Arab Renaissance for Democracy and Development (ARDD), where she co-founded the Global Network on the Question of Palestine (GNQP), a coalition of renowned professional and scholars engaged in/on Israel/Palestine. She has published widely on the legal situation in Israel/Palestine; her latest book, Palestinian Refugees in International Law (Oxford University Press, 2020), offers a comprehensive legal analysis of the situation of Palestinian refugees from its origins to modern-day reality. She regularly teaches and lectures on International Law and Forced Displacement in European and Arab universities, and speaks frequently at conferences and public events on the legal situation of Palestine. She worked for a decade as a human rights expert for the United Nations, including the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights and the Relief and Work Agency for Palestine Refugees. In these capacities, she advised the UN, governments, and civil society across the Middle East, North Africa, and the Asia Pacific, on the enforcement of human rights norms, especially for vulnerable groups including refugees and migrants. She holds a Law Degree (with honors) from the University of Pisa and an LLM in Human Rights from the University of London, SOAS. She is currently completing her PhD in International Refugee Law at Amsterdam University Law Faculty. An Italian national, she is married with two young children. You may think even less of me after I say I don't trust anybody, regardless of their position or education, to be right about things. Maybe it's my interest in science and the fact that learned people have given us leaded gas, chlorofluorocarbons (and that was one guy who gave us both!), Thalidomide, ddt, first generation teflon, etc.... Edited November 14, 2023 by Satchmo typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Super19 said: Where is the line, for you, where you step back and say whoa, this is too much. Oct 7th when the government of Gaza attacked Israel, that was too much. They must be removed from a position of Command and Control over Gaza, and with as little civilian casualities as possible. We all know Hamas uses human shields, and so as little as possible means some are inevitable. I wish it was less, and we all wish it was zero, but that isn't reality. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: 3 hours ago - 31°31′N 34°27′E Israeli army spokesman exposes a 20 meter Hamas tunnel under Rantisi Hospital in Gaza 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 22 minutes ago, moosehead said: I wonder what happens to an Israeli in Israel that speaks out against the Israel IDF attack on Gaza...... Careful… 4 hours ago, moosehead said: That makes no difference. Israel needs to start respecting basic human rights of all its inhabitants. Sorry but you are on a .... what·a·bout·ism /ˌ(h)wədəˈboudizəm/ noun BRITISH the technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue. "the parliamentary hearing appeared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, moosehead said: Did the police bulldoze their homes and evict them from their property..... then gave the property to non israeli settlers that actually came from another country ? That’s not what the video I watched (that was posted) was about. Anyway, it seems Hamas kills those who disagree with them. Doesn’t their published doctrine (was it 1998) state their intentions, which include a world Caliphate and some other very nasty stuff? So tossing those who disagree with them off buildings just might be what they would want to do to us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Super19 said: YOu know that IDF soldier now will be forever nicknames Borat by his fellow squad members.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Alflives said: That’s not what the video I watched (that was posted) was about. Anyway, it seems Hamas kills those who disagree with them. Doesn’t their published doctrine (was it 1998) state their intentions, which include a world Caliphate and some other very nasty stuff? So tossing those who disagree with them off buildings just might be what they would want to do to us? Alf you and your scotch supply are safe..... I don't think Hamas members drink Scotch.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, Super19 said: What do you think are the repercussions from all this damage in Gaza rn, for the palestinian people? How many more do you think will die until Israel stops? How many need to die/get injured/get displaced and how much more destruction to Gaza needs to be caused for you to be concerned of a genocide. Where is the line, for you, where you step back and say whoa, this is too much. Not sure where my line is. I have already mentioned quite a few times how horrified I am by all this. But I'm reminded about my post on the likely ineffectiveness of countering the Oct 7 attack with bouquets of flowers and chocolates in heart shaped boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said: Oct 7th when the government of Gaza attacked Israel, that was too much. They must be removed from a position of Command and Control over Gaza, and with as little civilian casualities as possible. We all know Hamas uses human shields, and so as little as possible means some are inevitable. I wish it was less, and we all wish it was zero, but that isn't reality. How many accounts of oppression and murder directly from Israel to Palestine going back decades will it take for you to say that Palestine has been treated unjustly for far too long by Israel, with nothing been done about it. And then the world acts shocked when lunatics snap and go crazy and call them terrorists. And support an act of BRUTAL collective punishment from the people that had been doing the oppressing for all those decades to the very same oppressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, Super19 said: You don't believe there were hostages held there and that the guards had a shift schedule? I don't quite understand what you are trying to say. There are no hostages? I know a few people have been trying to say from oct 7th to now that Hamas attack on Israel was an Israeli plot...so I guess those folks might think there are no hostages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said: You don't believe there were hostages held there and that the guards had a shift schedule? I don't quite understand what you are trying to say. There are no hostages? I know a few people have been trying to say from oct 7th to now that Hamas attack on Israel was an Israeli plot...so I guess those folks might think there are no hostages. He just sounded like Borat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Super19 said: How many accounts of oppression and murder directly from Israel to Palestine going back decades will it take for you to say that Palestine has been treated unjustly for far too long by Israel, with nothing been done about it. And then the world acts shocked when lunatics snap and go crazy and call them terrorists. And support an act of BRUTAL collective punishment from the people that had been doing the oppressing for all those decades to the very same oppressed. Wait, I'm getting confused again. Is Hamas Palestine, or is Palestine Hamas? I thought you were saying they are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Super19 said: How many accounts of oppression and murder directly from Israel to Palestine going back decades will it take for you to say that Palestine has been treated unjustly for far too long by Israel, with nothing been done about it. And then the world acts shocked when lunatics snap and go crazy and call them terrorists. And support an act of BRUTAL collective punishment from the people that had been doing the oppressing for all those decades to the very same oppressed. More and more people across the world are becoming informed and now joining you with your views on this long ongoing conflict. Luckily world opinion is now strongly moving to the Palestinians. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Super19 said: He just sounded like Borat. Just misinformation trying to justify the killing of innocent woman and children. Soldiers should enlist to protect their country... not to kill innocent civilians ( women and children ) Edited November 13, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Super19 said: How many accounts of oppression and murder directly from Israel to Palestine going back decades will it take for you to say that Palestine has been treated unjustly for far too long by Israel, with nothing been done about it. And then the world acts shocked when lunatics snap and go crazy and call them terrorists. And support an act of BRUTAL collective punishment from the people that had been doing the oppressing for all those decades to the very same oppressed. Palestinian Authoriites and people have been involved in at least 16 brutal attacks, some of them reaching the level of outright wars since the creation of Israel from the Gifted British Territory. As we established very early on in the thread, 15 of them were started by Palestinians, and one was pre-emptive attacks from Israel although the arab nations admitted they were days away from their own sneak attack on Israel. Starting wars and losing them has consequences. If anything, I hope that the Palestinian people learn that one lesson above all others; don't throw rocks at guys with guns, seems like only common sense. When you have lost 16 fights and came out worse off every time, why on earth would you start or cheer on the starting of a 17th time? Insane. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just now, Satchmo said: Wait, I'm getting confused again. Is Hamas Palestine, or is Palestine Hamas? I thought you were saying they are different. If Palestine isn't Hamas then why the **** are there 11k+ of Palestinians dead. No excuse. Human shields? No excuse. I would never blow up the house of a man that killed my entire family if I knew there was even 1 innocent soul in it. These people dead and ate being destroyed rn are the same people Israel has been oppressing for decades. But some say this just started on Oct 7. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: Palestinian Authoriites and people have been involved in at least 16 brutal attacks, some of them reaching the level of outright wars since the creation of Israel from the Gifted British Territory. As we established very early on in the thread, 15 of them were started by Palestinians, and one was pre-emptive attacks from Israel although the arab nations admitted they were days away from their own sneak attack on Israel. Starting wars and losing them has consequences. If anything, I hope that the Palestinian people learn that one lesson above all others; don't throw rocks at guys with guns, seems like only common sense. When you have lost 16 fights and came out worse off every time, why on earth would you start or cheer on the starting of a 17th time? Insane. I think Israel's fight to exist has been fully established for decades now. They have sufficient defense and support to make sure their right to exist isn't threatened. And I will fight for Israel's right to exist. But I won't fight for their oppression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 As much as I wish for a peaceful two state solution, the actions against Israel work against that goal. No matter how long this takes in Gaza to finish off Hamas, clearly Israel will seek reparations or better security features once they have won the war that Hamas once again started. That could be losing 3km's of the breadth of Gaza, for a security buffer, that might mean losing everything north of the Wadi as an even better security buffer. 20 less KM's missiles can go towards Jerusalem or Haifa or what not.... There is never a return to status quo after a war: there is a winner and loser, and losing sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said: As much as I wish for a peaceful two state solution, the actions against Israel work against that goal. No matter how long this takes in Gaza to finish off Hamas, clearly Israel will seek reparations or better security features once they have won the war that Hamas once again started. That could be losing 3km's of the breadth of Gaza, for a security buffer, that might mean losing everything north of the Wadi as an even better security buffer. 20 less KM's missiles can go towards Jerusalem or Haifa or what not.... There is never a return to status quo after a war: there is a winner and loser, and losing sucks. It wouldn't surprise me if Nentanyahu is salivating at thought of expanding the borders and taking Gaza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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