Hamas attacking Israel

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

I think Israel's fight to exist has been fully established for decades now. They have sufficient defense and support to make sure their right to exist isn't threatened. And I will fight for Israel's right to exist. But I won't fight for their oppression. 

But if they didn't move to uproot hamas from under the hospitals, inside the UN classrooms and remove their weapons caches from mosques...then Hamas would still be raining missiles down on israel killing innocent Israeli's. 

You want to save innocent lives, but only the Palestinian ones? 

How on earth can a nation remove a terrorist threat who is imbedded among civilians that they force to stay there, other than fighting through the objective and TRYING to spare as many innocents as possible? Leaving hamas in place is 100% a non starter post Oct 7th. 

[steviewonder20]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:19 AM, CBH1926 said:

Just like word racism and nazism are thrown around indiscriminately, word genocide is getting the same treatment.

What happened to Tutsis, Armenians, Darfuri, Cherkess, Cambodians etc. is a genocide.

 

 

Genocide is included in the Hamas charter. Their goal, as written in their charter is to kill all Jews. You can’t negotiate with people who are pledged to kill you. Hamas also imbeds with the populous and then complains about Israel killing innocents when they target the location from which missiles were fired.    

[Sharpshooter]

6 minutes ago, Super19 said:

If Palestine isn't Hamas then why the **** are there 11k+ of Palestinians dead. No excuse. Human shields? No excuse. I would never blow up the house of a man that killed my entire family if I knew there was even 1 innocent soul in it. These people dead and ate being destroyed rn are the same people Israel has been oppressing for decades. But some say this just started on Oct 7.

Are you suggesting that Hamas is Palestine, and vice versa, as Israel is Netandayahoo, and vice versa?

 

[Super19]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

But if they didn't move to uproot hamas from under the hospitals, inside the UN classrooms and remove their weapons caches from mosques...then Hamas would still be raining missiles down on israel killing innocent Israeli's. 

You want to save innocent lives, but only the Palestinian ones? 

How on earth can a nation remove a terrorist threat who is imbedded among civilians that they force to stay there, other than fighting through the objective and TRYING to spare as many innocents as possible? Leaving hamas in place is 100% a non starter post Oct 7th. 

If we can agree that Israel has been oppressing Palestine for decades, then we can agree that all Israel needed to do was stop its oppression. Kill any reason strong reason for terrorists in Gaza to exist (much of Hamas were once children who say oppression around em). Kill em with kindness (as if simply not oppressing a people is an act of kindness).

[Optimist Prime]

10 minutes ago, Super19 said:

If Palestine isn't Hamas then why the **** are there 11k+ of Palestinians dead.

If we take Hamas at their word, and they started this war with 50 thousand soldiers, and Israel is really good at winning wars, after 37 days of war: how many of those 11k+ do you think are Hamas soldiers and leadership? I don't know, i am just curious how many you think are women and children and how many you think were combatants or their leaders in the Hamas or Islamaic Jihad death cults? And one further step: how do we know the numbers being provided from Hamas in Gaza to the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank are accurate to begin with? Remember the 12 cars in the hospital parking lot that they said were 500 dead and 1400 wounded? Where did those bodies and hurt people go when the only images we had of the immediate aftermath was just 12 or 13 burnt out cars in a parking lot, from a missile that turned out to be Hamas weaponry that went sideways and imploded mid air. 

[Optimist Prime]

4 minutes ago, Super19 said:

If we can agree that Israel has been oppressing Palestine for decades, then we can agree that all Israel needed to do was stop its oppression. Kill any reason strong reason for terrorists in Gaza to exist (much of Hamas were once children who say oppression around em). Kill em with kindness (as if simply not oppressing a people is an act of kindness).

We clearly don't agree. Palestinians have attacked israel from the 3rd day of Israel's existence and then suffered the consequences of losing those altercations. (they weren't all wars but they were all violent altercations)

[Optimist Prime]

Even at this very minute Doctors Without Borders says they are trapped in AL Shifa hospital, and the Israeli forces are very clear they are asking them to come out and move to safety, so who is trapping them there?

[Optimist Prime]

Israeli army says it has killed the commander of Hamas's anti-tank guided missile array in the terror group's Khan Younis Brigade, Yakub Ashur. Separate strikes also killed Hamis Dababash, the former head of Hamas's intelligence division; Tahsin Maslam, the head of the combat support company for Hamas's special operations in Beit Lahia; Jihad Azam, a Hamas intelligence officer; and Munir Harb, head of information in the Rafah Brigade

 

edit: Several of these people were destroyed in one shot while looting a UN warehouse, apparently. 

 

Thankfully I am out of time for the day. Have a peaceful night and prosperous tomorrow, everyone. 

[Super19]

6 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

If we take Hamas at their word, and they started this war with 50 thousand soldiers, and Israel is really good at winning wars, after 37 days of war: how many of those 11k+ do you think are Hamas soldiers and leadership? I don't know, i am just curious how many you think are women and children and how many you think were combatants or their leaders in the Hamas or Islamaic Jihad death cults? And one further step: how do we know the numbers being provided from Hamas in Gaza to the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank are accurate to begin with? Remember the 12 cars in the hospital parking lot that they said were 500 dead and 1400 wounded? Where did those bodies and hurt people go when the only images we had of the immediate aftermath was just 12 or 13 burnt out cars in a parking lot, from a missile that turned out to be Hamas weaponry that went sideways and imploded mid air. 

I think the current figures of the 11k+ dead, 70% were reported as women and children and elderly. 

This is reported by the Gaza Health Ministry and supported by other organizations and in lieu of the perfect track record the ministry has had in previous counts I find no reason for this to be false, especially when other organizations support the numbers - all but Biden and Nentanyahu.

 

Again, I will find evidence that goes against your view of that first hospital bombing because last I checked it was still a contested issue. With many issues here, there's always 2 sides.

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

We clearly don't agree. Palestinians have attacked israel from the 3rd day of Israel's existence and then suffered the consequences of losing those altercations. (they weren't all wars but they were all violent altercations)

 

this is part of the issue. We don't still fight the US civil war. Canada replaced the plains of Abraham with a hockey rink.

 

at some point, the Arab world needs to accept Israel's right to exist and agree to stop funding terrorist activities. Palestinians in Gaza have been used as pawns for a long time, for other countries dislike of Israel.

 

 

[5forFighting]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

this is part of the issue. We don't still fight the US civil war. Canada replaced the plains of Abraham with a hockey rink.

 

at some point, the Arab world needs to accept Israel's right to exist and agree to stop funding terrorist activities. Palestinians in Gaza have been used as pawns for a long time, for other countries dislike of Israel.

 

 

There will never be peace in the Middle East. It's biblical, on both sides. You may not believe in the bible but almost everyone there does and they are ALL willing to die for it. 

[Optimist Prime]

3 minutes ago, Super19 said:

I think the current figures of the 11k+ dead, 70% were reported as women and children and elderly. 

This is reported by the Gaza Health Ministry and supported by other organizations and in lieu of the perfect track record the ministry has had in previous counts I find no reason for this to be false, especially when other organizations support the numbers - all but Biden and Nentanyahu.

 

Again, I will find evidence that goes against your view of that first hospital bombing because last I checked it was still a contested issue. With many issues here, there's always 2 sides.

Up to you if you want to look but you would be wasting your time, much like I wasted my time here today. 

[Bob Long]

Just now, 5forFighting said:

There will never be peace in the Middle East. It's biblical, on both sides. You may not believe in the bible but almost everyone there does and they are ALL willing to die for it. 

 

yeah, thats part of it too, for sure. 

[Super19]

8 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

We clearly don't agree. Palestinians have attacked israel from the 3rd day of Israel's existence and then suffered the consequences of losing those altercations. (they weren't all wars but they were all violent altercations)

Israel has had to fight for its existent and they have successfully done so. Kudos to them and the allies. And the Palestinians and Muslim leaders that helped broker the deals and Britain made the maps. Their existence is now under no real threat. Even now Saudi et al had all the reasons to cut ties with Israel and impose sanctions but they voted not to. Again, Israel's existence is not under a threat. And I support Israel's right to exist. They've been well established now for decades, which is why their micro aggressions and oppression over Palestine have been an issue for decades.

[Optimist Prime]

4 minutes ago, Super19 said:

I think the current figures of the 11k+ dead, 70% were reported as women and children and elderly. 

This is reported by the Gaza Health Ministry and supported by other organizations and in lieu of the perfect track record the ministry has had in previous counts I find no reason for this to be false, especially when other organizations support the numbers - all but Biden and Nentanyahu.

 

Again, I will find evidence that goes against your view of that first hospital bombing because last I checked it was still a contested issue. With many issues here, there's always 2 sides.

Just to be sure, you are citing Hamas Ministry of Health as having a perfect track record, but you are not a Hamas apologist, at least I can take off for the day on a chuckle at the end of a stressful afternoon. Have a good night. WHy can i hear trump defending his phone calls..."it was a perfect record, some might say the most perfect there has ever been in recording war deaths". 

[moosehead]

28 minutes ago, Super19 said:

It wouldn't surprise me if Nentanyahu is salivating at thought of expanding the borders and taking Gaza.

 

Settlers are born to settle.......    never satisfied with what they have.... gotta take from others....

 

From the oppressed.. to become the oppressor.....

 

Greed is a powerful  emotion....

Edited November 14, 2023 by moosehead

[Super19]

2 minutes ago, 5forFighting said:

There will never be peace in the Middle East. It's biblical, on both sides. You may not believe in the bible but almost everyone there does and they are ALL willing to die for it. 

The Arab and Muslim countries could at this point all unit and "take back the holy land" in a massive regional "holy war" which would likely be a world War but they don't. They simply don't care. They don't wanna piss of Israel to that extent and Israel has no reason to piss them off either. They don't care about the palestinians either. And the way I see it is that Israel has been bullying them for a long time. It's unjust.

[Super19]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Just to be sure, you are citing Hamas Ministry of Health as having a perfect track record, but you are not a Hamas apologist, at least I can take off for the day on a chuckle at the end of a stressful afternoon. Have a good night. WHy can i hear trump defending his phone calls..."it was a perfect record, some might say the most perfect there has ever been in recording war deaths". 

What's true is true. Every news source and documentation after the fact have corroborated with their numbers. This time might be different? Maybe. But just seeing the destruction and propaganda from both sides, I do think the carnage this time is as high as the numbers say. If this many didn't die and Gaza wasn't this destroyed and Hamas was being eliminated, then there wouldn't be such an outrage.

[Super19]

7 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Just to be sure, you are citing Hamas Ministry of Health as having a perfect track record, but you are not a Hamas apologist, at least I can take off for the day on a chuckle at the end of a stressful afternoon. Have a good night. WHy can i hear trump defending his phone calls..."it was a perfect record, some might say the most perfect there has ever been in recording war deaths". 

Have a good day and take care. I'm sorry we have been compelled to talk about and it's so sad this happening. We are just trying to find the undeniable truth and make sense out of this.

[Satchmo]

32 minutes ago, Super19 said:

It wouldn't surprise me if Nentanyahu is salivating at thought of expanding the borders and taking Gaza.

Haven't we already determined he's salivating at thoughts of  Gal Gadot?  Or was it Ana De Armas?  Been so long I can't remember.

 

[Super19]

1 minute ago, Satchmo said:

Haven't we already determined he's salivating at thoughts of  Gal Gadot?  Or was it Ana De Armas?  Been so long I can't remember.

 

Surely he is salivating at a Gal Gadot SI photoshoot on a beach in Gaza.

[Satchmo]

Just now, Super19 said:

Surely he is salivating at a Gal Gadot SI photoshoot on a beach in Gaza.

Now there is proof that there's always a way to spin any comment to align with your views....

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, moosehead said:

 

I point out facts about Israel  government discrimination of their minorities..  

 

 

I call Oppression / Occupation / racist / genocide / ethnic cleansing / Apartheid  of Israel minorities = Hate.

 

Maybe you are confused .  All humans are equal and should by law have the same rights. 

 

Maybe it is past time for Israel government to focus on Truth and Reconciliation. 

 

 

Over 2 million Arabs live in peace in Israel and have full rights and are Israeli citizens with passports, but you keep spreading your message of hate with your rhetoric of “racism”, “genocide” and “ethnic cleansing”.  
 

I see you for who you are now…

Edited November 14, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Super19]

"The best recruiter for Hamas is Israel"

...

 

 

"Now tell me, what is a proportionate response for that?"

Edited November 14, 2023 by Super19

[moosehead]

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Over 2 million Arabs live in peace in Israel and have full rights and are Israeli citizens with passports, but you keep spreading your message of hate with your rhetoric of “racism”, “genocide” and “ethnic cleansing”.  
 

I see you for who you are now…

 

I see you for exactly who you are....

No matter what kinds of things you post.... I continue to say... ALL HUMANS ARE EQUAL....

 

 

Whenever Israel is accused of being undemocratic or being an Apartheid state, one of the main counter-arguments used by its advocates is that everyone in Israel is politically equal. They’ll often cite examples of “Arab” judges or members of Knesset to reinforce their point. We have specifically discussed the issue of Apartheid more thoroughly in [This article], and while they are connected, the goal of this article is to inspect the narrower claim that every Israeli citizen is equal.

While such a claim is very attractive to defenders of Israel, how realistic is it?

 

 

It is relevant because many of the rights you are accorded in Israel stem from your nationality not your citizenship. Meaning an “Arab” Israeli citizen and a Jewish Israeli citizen, while both citizens, enjoy different rights and privileges determined by their “nationality”. Seeing how Israel is an ethnocracy it is not a mystery who this system privileges and who it discriminates against [You can read more about this here].

This is not merely discrimination in practice, but discrimination by law. Adalah have composed a database of discriminatory laws in Israel that disfavor non-Jewish Israelis. For example, the Law of Return and Absentees’ Property Law are but two examples of flagrant racism and discrimination in the Israeli legal system [You can read more about this here].

This is not some old, odd oversight, but a very deliberate part of the design of Israeli society. This is periodically reinforced whenever some Israelis petition the Supreme Court to recognize an Israeli nationality that does not discriminate based on ethnicity. A recent example of these petitions was in 2013, where the Supreme Court rejected such an idea on the grounds that it would “undermine Israel’s Jewishness“.

It says quite a lot about Israel that a unifying egalitarian identity not based around ethnicity would “pose a danger to Israel’s founding principle: to be a Jewish state for the Jewish people“, as the court ruled.  The fact that such discrimination is seen as a cornerstone of Israeli society only reinforces its colonial ethnocratic nature, and undermines any claims to equality among citizens.

 

https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/all-israelis-are-equal/