Hamas attacking Israel

[RomanPer]

2 hours ago, moosehead said:

 

Did the police bulldoze their homes and evict them from their property..... then gave the property to non israeli settlers that actually came from another country ?

 

Do you even understand that you just completely switched your original premise? Unreal, just unreal…

[Optimist Prime]

The Gazan death toll numbers are recorded UNRWA personnel who send it to Hamas who send it to the West Bank who disseminate it to the world. 

 

Just before my company arrives I had time to look this up, as I know without a source, Wikipedia in this case, I would be shouted down: 

UNRWA has 30,000 people on its payrolls, the overwhelming majority are locals, ergo Palestinians. IN fact they are one of the largest employers in Gaza if not the largest employer. 

Quote

Peter Hansen, UNRWA's former Commissioner-General (1996–2005), caused controversy in Canada in October 2004 when he said in an interview with CBC TV:^[112][113]

Oh I am sure that there are Hamas members on the UNRWA payroll and I don't see that as a crime. Hamas as a political organization does not mean that every member is a militant and we do not do political vetting and exclude people from one persuasion as against another.

In a letter to the Agency's major donors, he said he was attempting to be honest because UNRWA has over 8,200 employees in the Gaza Strip. Given the 30% support of Hamas in Gaza at the time, and UNRWA's workforce of 11,000 Palestinians, at least some Hamas sympathizers were likely to be among UNRWA's employees. However, he was retired from United Nations service against his will on 31 March 2005

 

Quote

James G. Lindsay, a former UNRWA general counsel and fellow researcher for Washington Institute for Near East Policy published a report for WINEP in 2009 in which he criticized UNRWA practices.^[93] One of his conclusions was that UNRWA is not ousting terrorists from its ranks:^[93][117]

UNRWA has taken very few steps to detect and eliminate terrorists from the ranks of its staff or its beneficiaries, and no steps at all to prevent members of organizations such as Hamas from joining its staff. UNRWA has no preemployment security checks and does not monitor off-time behavior to ensure compliance with the organization's anti-terror rules. No justification exists for millions of dollars in humanitarian aid going to those who can afford to pay for UNRWA services.

Quote

In 2013 Lt. Col. (ret.) Jonathan Dahoah-Halevi, senior researcher of the Middle East and radical Islam at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs,^[118] asserted that 'the UNRWA workers union has been controlled in practice by Hamas for many years'.

It has also been claimed that in 2012, the Hamas "Professional List" again won a Staff Union election in UNRWA. The Professional List is led by alleged senior Hamas activist Suheil Al-Hind. More than 9,500 UNRWA employees in the Gaza Strip participated; this represented more than 80% turnout. The professional list won three UNRWA workers groups: the employees', teachers', and services' unions.^{[125][126][127]}

 

 

I could go on but i would be boring those who might be inclined to read it, and wasting my time for those who might be inclined to dismiss it. 

I am not sure why anyone would believe the Health Ministry of Hamas, nor the UNRWA reported numbers to them, which they then pass on to the West Bank. 

Believing these numbers is saying "Those terrorists are at heart very honest and don't have an agenda to misinform me and gain my sympathies" when we all know the only reason the bee stung the elephant on Oct 7th was to elicit a response they could then use to manipulate the comfortable masses around the globe into believing Israel is evil. 

 

And with that, dinner time. 

[RomanPer]

2 hours ago, moosehead said:

 

More and more people across the world are becoming informed and now joining you with your views on this long ongoing conflict.

 

Luckily world opinion is now strongly moving to the Palestinians.     

 

Lol, on “more and more people across the world”. Don’t flatter yourself, it’s all the same recycling antisemites, they are just getting louder for now.

[Optimist Prime]

3 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Lol, on “more and more people across the world”. Don’t flatter yourself, it’s all the same recycling anti-Semites, they are just getting louder for now.

the clue was in the chants "FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA" literally means he cessation of Israel's existence. 

[Bob Long]

Just now, Optimist Prime said:

the clue was in the chants "FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA" literally means he cessation of Israel's existence. 

 

Oh no you are misunderstanding that, they are just talking about a nice day hike 

[moosehead]

5 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Lol, on “more and more people across the world”. Don’t flatter yourself, it’s all the same recycling antisemites, they are just getting louder for now.

 

All humans are equal....

 

 

 

Dear Prime Minister Justin Trudeau,

 

I am writing to you on behalf of Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) to urgently request that the Canadian Government do everything within its power to achieve an immediate ceasefire in Gaza. Ending the indiscriminate violence is the only way to prevent more deaths and scale up desperately needed humanitarian assistance. 

 

My colleagues and I, like so many Canadians, were aggrieved and outraged by Hamas’ deliberate and unconscionable attack on Israeli civilians. We are now horrified by Israel’s incessant and indiscriminate attacks on Palestinian civilians and civilian spaces, including hospitals, in Gaza.  

 

The relentless killings, destruction of essential infrastructure and withholding of items including water and medicines essential for survival amount to brazen and repeated violations of International Humanitarian Law (IHL). IHL remains the clearest expression of our global agreement to preserve a space for humanity in war. For governments committed to this principle and legal framework, including Canada, now is the time to defend it wholeheartedly and unequivocally. 

 

Canada must call for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza. 

 

Joseph Belliveau  
Executive Director, Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières in Canada

 

https://www.doctorswithoutborders.ca/canada-must-call-immediate-ceasefire-gaza/

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by moosehead

[moosehead]

Since the deadly war on Gaza began on Oct. 7, there has been an overspill of violence across the West Bank. In Jenin, MSF emergency doctors have been called to the public hospital nearly every night, as Israeli incursions with tanks and ground troops batter the city. Over the past month, Israeli forces have killed 30 people and injured at least 162 more in Jenin city alone.*

 

Local paramedics in Jenin refugee camp have to use a tuk-tuk, donated by MSF, to weave through the narrow alleyways of the camp to collect the wounded. Israeli forces often block the entrance of the camp, making it near impossible for ambulances to get in and out with the critically wounded in time to save their lives.

 

Outside the hospital, an ambulance pierced by bullet holes is surrounded by a group of paramedics who stare blankly into the buzzing night. One says they were shot at while attempting to reach wounded people in the camp, forcing them to evacuate the ambulance and take cover on the ground for 20 minutes until the Israeli forces left.

 

The trail of destruction can be seen not only through the people with gunshot and shrapnel wounds at Jenin hospital, but also in the city itself, where infrastructure and symbolic Palestinian buildings have been torn up and destroyed by bulldozers and tanks.

Violent incursions and incidents are not unique to Jenin. Across the West Bank, 165 Palestinians have been killed since Oct. 7 and more than 2,400 have been injured, according to the Palestinian authorities.

 

https://www.doctorswithoutborders.ca/israeli-forces-and-settlers-ramp-up-violence-against-palestinians-in-west-bank/

[RomanPer]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

What's true is true. Every news source and documentation after the fact have corroborated with their numbers. This time might be different? Maybe. But just seeing the destruction and propaganda from both sides, I do think the carnage this time is as high as the numbers say. If this many didn't die and Gaza wasn't this destroyed and Hamas was being eliminated, then there wouldn't be such an outrage.

 

Don’t you wonder why other Muslim countries don’t care about Palestinians? Why don’t you “educate yourself” (as moose head likes to say) about what happened in Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon when they let Palestinian terrorists in? While you are at it, “educate yourself” on Black September. I guess pragmatic Middle Eastern regimes understand that their citizens will benefit a lot more in a long run from cooperating with highly advanced technological and military power then from accepting millions of people who willingly elect terrorists as their leaders.

[RomanPer]

10 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

the clue was in the chants "FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA" literally means he cessation of Israel's existence. 

 

When they yelled it at us during the vigil, during one of the moments we timed our response perfectly and since there were a lot more of us, our “Israel will be free” completely covered their second line lol.

[moosehead]

6 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Don’t you wonder why other Muslim countries don’t care about Palestinians? Why don’t you “educate yourself” (as moose head likes to say) about what happened in Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon when they let Palestinian terrorists in? While you are at it, “educate yourself” on Black September. I guess pragmatic Middle Eastern regimes understand that their citizens will benefit a lot more in a long run from cooperating with highly advanced technological and military power then from accepting millions of people who willingly elect terrorists as their leaders.

 

 More hogwash...   The world knows how much Israel government supports ethnic cleansing.   Frankly , it is disgusting.....

All humans are equal. All humans deserve peace, freedom and human rights. 

 

 

But Arab countries and many Palestinians also suspect Israel might use this opportunity to force permanent demographic changes to wreck Palestinian demands for statehood in Gaza, the West Bank and east Jerusalem, which was also captured by Israel in 1967.

 

“All historical precedent points to the fact that when Palestinians are forced to leave Palestinian territory, they are not allowed to return back,” said H.A. Hellyer, a senior associate fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “Egypt doesn’t want to be complicit in ethnic cleansing in Gaza.”

 

https://apnews.com/article/palestinian-jordan-egypt-israel-refugee-502c06d004767d4b64848d878b66bd3d

Edited November 14, 2023 by moosehead

[RomanPer]

2 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

 More hogwash...   The world knows how much Israel government supports ethnic cleansing.   Frankly , it is disgusting.....

All humans are equal. All humans deserve peace, freedom and human rights. 

 

 

But Arab countries and many Palestinians also suspect Israel might use this opportunity to force permanent demographic changes to wreck Palestinian demands for statehood in Gaza, the West Bank and east Jerusalem, which was also captured by Israel in 1967.

 

“All historical precedent points to the fact that when Palestinians are forced to leave Palestinian territory, they are not allowed to return back,” said H.A. Hellyer, a senior associate fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “Egypt doesn’t want to be complicit in ethnic cleansing in Gaza.”

 

https://apnews.com/article/palestinian-jordan-egypt-israel-refugee-502c06d004767d4b64848d878b66bd3d

 

So, you are unwilling to educate yourself, huh? How about that Black September?

[Super19]

16 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

the clue was in the chants "FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA" literally means he cessation of Israel's existence. 

"flatten Gaza"

https://www.businessinsider.com/astonishing-comments-from-israel-2012-11

"Give them hell"

https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1710622315816337454?s=19

"There should be no limit to the number of civillian casualties"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/01/lindsey-graham-israel-hamas-war-civilian-casualties

 

And I heard Israelis in New York on a street interview say "from the river to sea, Palestine should he deceased"

 

"from the river to the sea" doesn't mean to get rid of Israel, but to get rid of apartheid israel. It's a slogan to establish justice in the region.

 

However, when Israelis say "from the river to sea" it means to get rid of Palestine.

 

Also what do you have to say about the genocidal-esque quotes from the Zionist side?

 

 

[moosehead]

2 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

So, you are unwilling to educate yourself, huh? How about that Black September?

 

The UN flag is flown at half-mast today in mourning for the 101 UNRWA humanitarian workers, killed in Gaza since 7 October. UN Secretary-General António Guterres has invited UN personnel worldwide to honour their memory by observing a minute of silence at 9:30 am. He recently deplored the unprecedented loss of life and commended those on the front lines of the humanitarian crisis: “More United Nations aid workers have been killed than in any comparable period in the history of our organization. I salute all those who continue their life-saving work despite the overwhelming challenges and risks.

 

https://www.un.org/en/situation-in-occupied-palestine-and-israel

 

 

 

 

[moosehead]

 

ISRAEL AND OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES 2022

 

Israel’s continuing oppressive and discriminatory system of governing Palestinians in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT) constituted a system of apartheid, and Israeli officials committed the crime of apartheid under international law. Israeli forces launched a three-day offensive on the occupied Gaza Strip in August during which they committed apparent war crimes.

 

This compounded the impact of a 15-year ongoing Israeli blockade that amounts to illegal collective punishment and further fragments Palestinian territory. Israel escalated its crackdown on Palestinians’ freedom of association. It also imposed arbitrary restrictions on freedom of movement and closures that amounted to collective punishment, mainly in the northern West Bank, ostensibly in response to armed attacks by Palestinians on Israeli soldiers and settlers.

 

The year saw a rise in the number of Palestinians unlawfully killed and seriously injured by Israeli forces during raids in the West Bank. Administrative detentions of Palestinians hit a 14-year high, and torture and other ill-treatment continued. Israeli forces demolished al-Araqib village in the Negev/Naqab for the 211th time

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

[Warhippy]

3 hours ago, 5forFighting said:

Answering a question with a question isn't an answer. If you don't know the reason, just state that. We have our own housing and immigration issues here already. Flying them thousands of kilometers makes no sense when they are surrounded by nations that share 98% of their cultural views. 

So.

 

Housing issues and immigration issues as well as transport and logistics

 

But we can just assume or expect other nations will be able to just because.

 

Or maybe these nations just say no because they don't have the ability to or have the same issues we do

[Super19]

39 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

The Gazan death toll numbers are recorded UNRWA personnel who send it to Hamas who send it to the West Bank who disseminate it to the world. 

 

Just before my company arrives I had time to look this up, as I know without a source, Wikipedia in this case, I would be shouted down: 

UNRWA has 30,000 people on its payrolls, the overwhelming majority are locals, ergo Palestinians. IN fact they are one of the largest employers in Gaza if not the largest employer. 

 

 

 

I could go on but i would be boring those who might be inclined to read it, and wasting my time for those who might be inclined to dismiss it. 

I am not sure why anyone would believe the Health Ministry of Hamas, nor the UNRWA reported numbers to them, which they then pass on to the West Bank. 

Believing these numbers is saying "Those terrorists are at heart very honest and don't have an agenda to misinform me and gain my sympathies" when we all know the only reason the bee stung the elephant on Oct 7th was to elicit a response they could then use to manipulate the comfortable masses around the globe into believing Israel is evil. 

 

And with that, dinner time. 

UNICEF defends accuracy of Gaza death toll as horror unfolds in ravaged enclave

....

"UNICEF spokesperson James Elder said on Tuesday the organization’s estimates had closely aligned with the ministry’s in the past, which gave him confidence in the current figures. He told CNN’s Julia Chatterley: “Our numbers were within a couple of percent of that, almost identical. We don’t have that concern based on past history.”

 

“At UNICEF we are very, very precise with our numbers. We have the reputation, not just because we are on the frontlines and we deliver, but we have evidence,” he said."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/07/world/gaza-death-toll-accuracy-unicef-intl-hnk/index.html

Edited November 14, 2023 by Super19

[Satchmo]

7 minutes ago, Super19 said:

"flatten Gaza"

https://www.businessinsider.com/astonishing-comments-from-israel-2012-11

"Give them hell"

https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1710622315816337454?s=19

"There should be no limit to the number of civillian casualties"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/01/lindsey-graham-israel-hamas-war-civilian-casualties

 

And I heard Israelis in New York on a street interview say "from the river to sea, Palestine should he deceased"

 

"from the river to the sea" doesn't mean to get rid of Israel, but to get rid of apartheid israel. It's a slogan to establish justice in the region.

 

However, when Israelis say "from the river to sea" it means to get rid of Palestine.

 

Also what do you have to say about the genocidal-esque quotes from the Zionist side?

 

 

Haven't we already come to the conclusion that a lot of people are saying dumb and horrible things?

 

I think you and Moose are devoting all waking hours to find them.  Well some of them anyway.  Not many of the Palestinian ones.

 

Don't forget what Pokemon hunters say.  'You gotta catch 'em all!'

[Super19]

1 minute ago, Satchmo said:

Haven't we already come to the conclusion that a lot of people are saying dumb and horrible things?

 

I think you and Moose are devoting all waking hours to find them.  Well some of them anyway.  Not many of the Palestinian ones.

 

Don't forget what Pokemon hunters say.  'You gotta catch 'em all!'

It's not just words. Gaza is being flattened. There isn't a limit to civillian casualties. And it looks like Israel will take control of more land in Gaza once this is said and done.

 

"From the river to sea" does not have the same effect as those words. Infact, I think the millions around the world who may chant those words are interested in justice for the Palestinians, not a genocide of Israel or an eradication of the state - maybe just an eradication Israel's apartheid.

[Elias Pettersson]

51 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

The Gazan death toll numbers are recorded UNRWA personnel who send it to Hamas who send it to the West Bank who disseminate it to the world. 

 

Just before my company arrives I had time to look this up, as I know without a source, Wikipedia in this case, I would be shouted down: 

UNRWA has 30,000 people on its payrolls, the overwhelming majority are locals, ergo Palestinians. IN fact they are one of the largest employers in Gaza if not the largest employer. 

 

 

 

I could go on but i would be boring those who might be inclined to read it, and wasting my time for those who might be inclined to dismiss it. 

I am not sure why anyone would believe the Health Ministry of Hamas, nor the UNRWA reported numbers to them, which they then pass on to the West Bank. 

Believing these numbers is saying "Those terrorists are at heart very honest and don't have an agenda to misinform me and gain my sympathies" when we all know the only reason the bee stung the elephant on Oct 7th was to elicit a response they could then use to manipulate the comfortable masses around the globe into believing Israel is evil. 

 

And with that, dinner time. 

Where are the 11,000 mass graves?  I haven’t been able to find any pictures on Twitter. You would think Hamas would have published these pics all over the internet for propaganda purposes. 

[moosehead]

16 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Haven't we already come to the conclusion that a lot of people are saying dumb and horrible things?

 

I think you and Moose are devoting all waking hours to find them.  Well some of them anyway.  Not many of the Palestinian ones.

 

Don't forget what Pokemon hunters say.  'You gotta catch 'em all!'

 

Waking hours... Uh... no.......  It actually takes about 10 seconds to find all kinds of examples of Israel governments oppression of Palestinians. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by moosehead

[Satchmo]

3 minutes ago, Super19 said:

It's not just words. Gaza is being flattened. There isn't a limit to civillian casualties. And it looks like Israel will take control of more land in Gaza once this is said and done.

 

"From the river to sea" does not have the same effect as those words. Infact, I think the millions around the world who may chant those words are interested in justice for the Palestinians, not a genocide of Israel or an eradication of the state - maybe just an eradication Israel's apartheid.

I agree with some of that stuff and for the rest I can only say 'We'll see'.

 

You are deflecting  again though.  Much of what you just said had very little to do with what I just said.

[Super19]

There is a growing support from the people in the streets for a ceasefire and a free Palestine.

Israel can blame Hamas, but they have 4 fingers pointing back at themselves for the oppression they inflict on Palestenians themselves. The world is also failing them.

 

No one is calling for a genocide and destruction on Israel. Just an end to the oppression and madness.

[Super19]

Just now, Satchmo said:

I agree with some of that stuff and for the rest I can only say 'We'll see'.

 

You are deflecting  again though.  Much of what you just said had very little to do with what I just said.

Yes I've seen some nasty comments from the anti Israeli crowd, which I will also fight against and I have in my day to day. I feel like the devils advocate in whatever group I'm in sometimes.

 

As for the palestenians cheering on the rockets that were sent into Israel in the days after oct 7...  Watch that Bassem Youssef snippet with Piers Morgan - he paints a picture of an oppressed Palestenian and what is a proportionate response from that boy to the oppression he has been hit with from Israel.

[Satchmo]

9 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Yes I've seen some nasty comments from the anti Israeli crowd, which I will also fight against and I have in my day to day. I feel like the devils advocate in whatever group I'm in sometimes.

 

As for the palestenians cheering on the rockets that were sent into Israel in the days after oct 7...  Watch that Bassem Youssef snippet with Piers Morgan - he paints a picture of an oppressed Palestenian and what is a proportionate response from that boy to the oppression he has been hit with from Israel.

I like that guy.  He is an entertainer now and knows how to tell a good story.   I imagine it's a mostly true story even if it was said on the Piers Morgan show.  Now there is a guy I don't trust.

 

As you'll know, I have never said that there are not horrible things going on in Gaza.  You and I just disagree on some details and the back story.

 

 

[Satchmo]

30 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Waking hours... Uh... no.......  It actually takes about 10 seconds to find all kinds of examples of Israel governments oppression of Palestinians. 

If you were to take 20 or even 30 seconds you might be able to find ones that relate more to the posts you are responding to.