Hamas attacking Israel

[Bob Long]

11 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Why do you ask for readily available information? All you do is respond with “where are” but you don’t seem to actually apply any sort of critical thinking skills. 
 

The UN, WHO, Reuters, BBC, CNN, etc have all confirmed the death toll. Rather than asking for sources, do some research other than getting all your news from Israeli propaganda on Twitter. Especially when Israel has faked and staged multiple videos of the war. 

 

Reporting numbers isn't the same as confirmation.

 

We don't have the full details yet. 

[stawns]

20 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Why do you ask for readily available information? All you do is respond with “where are” but you don’t seem to actually apply any sort of critical thinking skills. 
 

The UN, WHO, Reuters, BBC, CNN, etc have all confirmed the death toll. Rather than asking for sources, do some research other than getting all your news from Israeli propaganda on Twitter. Especially when Israel has faked and staged multiple videos of the war. 

and the mass graves is the rubble that were once houses and homes to those people.  

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

and the mass graves is the rubble that were once houses and homes to those people.  

 

we also know that Hamas uses tunnels under homes and hospitals. Do you know what those images are? I don't. And neither do you. 

 

If there is a reckoning coming for Bibi hitting civilian-only targets on purpose (and if he has ordered that, he needs to pay), we will need better than jumping on a CNN story that may or may not be accurate.

 

[stawns]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

we also know that Hamas uses tunnels under homes and hospitals. Do you know what those images are? I don't. And neither do you. 

 

If there is a reckoning coming for Bibi hitting civilian-only targets on purpose (and if he has ordered that, he needs to pay), we will need better than jumping on a CNN story that may or may not be accurate.

 

I don't watch CNN, nor would I use them as a source

[Bob Long]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

I don't watch CNN, nor would I use them as a source

 

OK but many do. For me this all comes down to rage farming and instantaneous reaction. Who does that help in this conflict?

 

 

[RomanPer]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

 

anti-semites?  You can't be against an extremist, racist, semi-facist Israeli government without being an anti-semite?  You need to make the distinction berween the state and the people.  I'm far,far from being anti-semitic, but recognize this government is racist and extremist.

 

I already explained it many times in the thread - go back and find it. Not going to re-explain it over and over again.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

 

I already explained it many times in the thread - go back and find it. Not going to re-explain it over and over again.

 

The jews in the polish ghettos fought back against the Germans..........were they terrorists or freedom fighters? 

 

You can't oppress people, treat them worse than animals and then expect them to be passive participants in that apartheid/genocide

[RomanPer]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

The jews in the polish ghettos fought back against the Germans..........were they terrorists or freedom fighters? 

 

You can't oppress people, treat them worse than animals and then expect them to be passive participants in that apartheid/genocide

 

Good bye

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Good bye

 

you won't answer the question?  You can't accuse people of being anti-semitic and then not engage in discussion about it.  I would definitely consider the jewish uprisings in the polish ghetto to be the work of freedom fighters, of people being treated worse than animals and pushed beyond the brink and fighting back against their oppression and, in that case extermination).

 

I have a history degree, with a WWII specialization and have sat and interviewed survivors of the holocaust, sat with them as they rolled up their sleeves to show me the number on their arms.......not names, numbers, because that's all they were to the Germans.  I don't feel the Israeili government sees the Palestinians any differently.

[Satchmo]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

you won't answer the question?  You can't accuse people of being anti-semitic and then not engage in discussion about it.  I would definitely consider the jewish uprisings in the polish ghetto to be the work of freedom fighters, of people being treated worse than animals and pushed beyond the brink and fighting back against their oppression and, in that case extermination).

 

I have a history degree, with a WWII specialization and have sat and interviewed survivors of the holocaust, sat with them as they rolled up their sleeves to show me the number on their arms.......not names, numbers, because that's all they were to the Germans.  I don't feel the Israeili government sees the Palestinians any differently.

I have no history degree but believe I have a pretty good knowledge of WWII history.

 

The Warsaw uprising occurred in Aug 44 - I admit I had to look that up as a reminder.  I knew it was late in the war.  By that time the Auschwitz Report had been published.  Even without that report, word must have filtered back to Warsaw about the true genocide and ethnic cleansing that was going on.

 

I think you and I both agree that Palestinians have received some harsh treatment.   I would not describe that treatment as genocide.

 

I see your main points and accept some of them.   I think though that bringing up the Jewish uprising is a bit of a stretch and makes some tenuous connections.

 

You may disagree.  After all, you are the one with the credentials.    I'm not convinced credentials always guarantee truth.   Look at all the attendees with advanced degrees at the Wannsee Conference.

 

[5forFighting]

Hamas not letting the UN attend to any of the kidnapped is exactly why I am enjoying Hamas being eradicated. 

[King Heffy]

13 hours ago, Odd. said:

Why do you always tag them when you’re faced with sources? 

Hinkle has no value as a source or as a person.  There's no justification for repeating anything said by that waste of oxygen.

[stawns]

42 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

I have no history degree but believe I have a pretty good knowledge of WWII history.

 

The Warsaw uprising occurred in Aug 44 - I admit I had to look that up as a reminder.  I knew it was late in the war.  By that time the Auschwitz Report had been published.  Even without that report, word must have filtered back to Warsaw about the true genocide and ethnic cleansing that was going on.

 

I think you and I both agree that Palestinians have received some harsh treatment.   I would not describe that treatment as genocide.

 

I see your main points and accept some of them.   I think though that bringing up the Jewish uprising is a bit of a stretch and makes some tenuous connections.

 

You may disagree.  After all, you are the one with the credentials.    I'm not convinced credentials always guarantee truth.   Look at all the attendees with advanced degrees at the Wannsee Conference.

 

 

If the mass killing of innocent civilians isn't genocide, what is it?

[Odd.]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

If the mass killing of innocent civilians isn't genocide, what is it?

I think the main talking argument to that is “collateral” (just another way to try and justify murder)

[Bob Long]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

If the mass killing of innocent civilians isn't genocide, what is it?

 

I would think as a teacher you wouldn't be so simplistic. By your definition Oct 7 was also an act of  genocide by Hamas.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Odd. said:

I think the main talking argument to that is “collateral” (just another way to try and justify murder)

 

I'd bet that's what the Serbs called it as well

[stawns]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

I would think as a teacher you wouldn't be so simplistic. By your definition Oct 7 was also an act of  genocide by Hamas.

 

I'd call that for what it was, a terrorist.  A coordinated, extended seige upon innocent people , with intent to rid their country of that group of people is genocide

[Coconuts]

Meanwhile, ongoing violence in the West Bank continues.

 

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-west-bank-elderly-man-killed

 

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-west-bank-army-conducts-raid-death-toll-mounts

 

https://abcnews.go.com/International/west-bank-violence-escalated-dramatically-killings-displacement-rise/story?id=104609970

 

 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

 

I'd call that for what it was, a terrorist.  A coordinated, extended seige upon innocent people , with intent to rid their country of that group of people is genocide

 

Oh ok. So the fact that the Palestinian population has grown considerably over the years means what then?

 

I'm surprised tbh that you've fallen for some of the narratives out there.

[Satchmo]

11 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

If the mass killing of innocent civilians isn't genocide, what is it?

It's all in the numbers, just like everything else is.   That and your definition of the word.

 

As I define it, we are not there yet.   That is not meant to imply that I like were we are.

[Odd.]

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I would think as a teacher you wouldn't be so simplistic. By your definition Oct 7 was also an act of  genocide by Hamas.

Do you think there isn’t a difference between a terrorist attack and the mass murder of an ethnic group? 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

Oh ok. So the fact that the Palestinian population has grown considerably over the years means what then?

 

I'm surprised tbh that you've fallen for some of the narratives out there.

 

I haven't "fallen" for anything.  I've got a long, solid base of knowledge to base my own opinions on.  Feel free to label that anti-semitic or Hamas supporter all you want.  I'm confident in my ability to understand what is happening, free of bias

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I'd call that for what it was, a terrorist.  A coordinated, extended seige upon innocent people , with intent to rid their country of that group of people is genocide

Over 2 million Arabs live as Israeli citizens with passports in Israel. Tell me again about genocide and ethnic cleansing. 
 

No wonder Roman doesn’t waste his time with any of you anymore. You’re a history teacher and you don’t even have a clue what an actual genocide is?  

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

 

I haven't "fallen" for anything.  I've got a long, solid base of knowledge to base my own opinions on.  Feel free to label that anti-semitic or Hamas supporter all you want.  I'm confident in my ability to understand what is happening, free of bias

 

No one is free of bias.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Satchmo said:

It's all in the numbers, just like everything else is.   That and your definition of the word.

 

As I define it, we are not there yet.   That is not meant to imply that I like were we are.

 

I could probably have some agreement with that statement, but it's certainly headed in that direction.  This is the end of Gaza and you can bet Netanyahu has plans to occupy and rebuild it when they are done levelling it and it's pretty much assured there won't be any Palestinians left there alive