Hamas attacking Israel

[stawns]

41 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Who is supporting a 'government like this'?

 

As for the rest, I'll just have to repeat a previous reply - 'We'll see'.   My gut say's yes, there will be Palestinians in Gaza.

 

Who's supporting this government?  Cmon

34 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

 

Thanks for clarifying. I was responding to your statement that “if mass killing of innocent civilians isn’t genocide, what is it?” So you do agree that by your definition that is not necessarily so?

 

Don’t misunderstand me,  I’m not looking for a ‘gotcha’ rather just saying that using the word has us arguing definitions.

That's not what I said, I said with the intention to eliminate an entire population of people from existence or from a place

[stawns]

25 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Over 1.6 million Palestinians live as Israeli citizens with passports in Israel. Your claim of genocide is bogus and without any merit whatsoever. It’s simply Hamas propaganda. 

Once again, you've answered your own question here

[4petesake]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

Who's supporting this government?  Cmon

That's not what I said, I said with the intention to eliminate an entire population of people from existence or from a place

 

No, it is what you said.

 

 

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

This inaccurately depicts just how many more innocent civilians the IDF are killing. Hamas and the IDF are not going tit for tat with the killing of innocent civillians, the IDF is killing way way more and continuing to do so.

Are we keeping score (deaths if non combatants)? 
Clearly Hamas cares little for the people of Gaza or they would not hide behind them. This war is over, and the people of Gaza are free, as soon as Hamas surrenders. Then, IMHAO, we will see the western world invest in building up Gaza. 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

 

No, it is what you said.

 

 

Yup. Excellent point. 

[Satchmo]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

Who's supporting this government?  Cmon

I support Israelis.   I support Palestinians.

 

I would like the Israeli government to change.   I would like Palestine to have a government.

 

Governments change.   Terrorists do not seem to.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

I support Israelis.   I support Palestinians.

 

I would like the Israeli government to change.   I would like Palestine to have a government.

 

Governments change.   Terrorists do not seem to.

Terrorists need to be eliminated and it sure seems like that’s what the IDF is doing. 

[stawns]

20 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

 

No, it is what you said.

 

 

And when I went on to clarify?

[stawns]

15 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

I support Israelis.   I support Palestinians.

 

I would like the Israeli government to change.   I would like Palestine to have a government.

 

Governments change.   Terrorists do not seem to.

This government has been in power since 1996, with a few brief interludes for posterity.  

 

I'm disappointed that people who normally speak out against extremist governments in other places tacitly support one of the mist extreme, far right governments on the planet

 

I guess you throw "Israel" into the mix and people lose their objectivity.  But it's all good, nothing wrong with 5000 dead children in a month I guess

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/12/main-gaza-hospital-totally-surrounded-director-says-as-netanyahu-rejects-ceasefire-calls

 

"Netanyahu also made clear he wanted Israel to retain overall security control after any conflict “with the ability to go in whenever we want in order to kill terrorists”."

 

It's not like it's been done big international secret about what this extreme govts plans are.  Ask the people in the West Bank

Cmon, you're smarter than that

 

What's the invasion history?

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Satchmo said:

That's a bit of a step back from what you said a few posts back.

 

I think we can agree that Bibi is a scumbag.   What he wants, or at least says he wants, is and will continue to be tempered by what his western allies want.

 

Will it though? The U.S. has largely given Israel carte blanche to do whatever it wants and has given Israel over 150 billion dollars over the years, more than likely they'll probably continue to let the government in place do what they want.

 

Europe will have more diverse views, but at the end of the day I question how much they'll ruffle the feathers of a large ally in the US. 

 

I'm not as convinced. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Coconuts

[stawns]

Just now, Coconuts said:

 

Will it though? The U.S. has largely given Israel carte blanche to do whatever it wants and has given Israel over 150 billion dollars over the years. 

 

I'm not as convinced. 

And just upped their "defense" spending to Israel from $4b a year to $14b

[Bob Long]

Just now, stawns said:

And just upped their "defense" spending to Israel from $4b a year to $14b

 

Yes, for the lone democracy in the region. And our ally.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

What's the invasion history?

 

You've said your piece, easy to see where you stand.  

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

Yes, for the lone democracy in the region. And our ally.

And Hitler was times man of the year in 1938

[Satchmo]

Just now, Coconuts said:

 

Will it though? The U.S. has largely given Israel carte blanche to do whatever it wants and has given Israel over 150 billion dollars over the years. 

 

I'm not as convinced. 

I doubt it has truly been carte blanche. I'm sure there were always unwritten restrictions. 

 

Despite the history, have you not noticed a change in the statements being made  by 'the west' lately?    Restrictions are now voiced.

[Coconuts]

5 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

I doubt it has truly been carte blanche. I'm sure there were always unwritten restrictions. 

 

Despite the history, have you not noticed a change in the statements being made  by 'the west' lately?    Restrictions are now voiced.

 

Maybe, maybe not. None of us actually know what's going on between the US and Israeli governments beyond what hits the news. 

 

I think a degree of public pushback was always inevitable, but governments pay lip service all the time. 

 

As you said, it's not as if anyone in this thread views Netanyahu positively, but I still question how much western governments, ect are going to restrict him from doing whatever it is him and his government want while in power. War can change how some view government, it's hard to say whether him and his will be displaced by moderates any time soon. But in the meantime he's the man in the chair. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Coconuts

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

 

Maybe, maybe not. None of us actually know what's going on between the US and Israeli governments beyond what hits the news. 

 

I think a degree of public pushback was always inevitable, but governments pay lip service all the time. 

 

As you said, it's not as if anyone in this thread views Netanyahu positively, but I still question how much western governments, ect are going to restrict him from doing whatever it is him and his government want while in power. War can change how some view government, it's hard to say whether him and his will be displaced by moderates any time soon. 

All I've got is hope.

[Bob Long]

16 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

You've said your piece, easy to see where you stand.  

And Hitler was times man of the year in 1938

 

Don't "Hitler" people.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Bob Long

[Coconuts]

Just now, Satchmo said:

All I've got is hope.

 

A fair response, none of what we say here will have any impact anyway, may as well have hope if nothing else 

[Canuck Surfer]

18 hours ago, moosehead said:

Makes sense..  Good people are suffering... sad. 

 

“But the simple human truth is that you don’t have to choose. You can abhor the suffering of Palestinian families and the suffering of Israeli families like mine. You can call for peace and the immediate return of the innocent men, women and children who were violently taken from us. It doesn’t need to be political to share in my grief or in the anguish that the Israeli people are feeling.”

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/14/us/march-for-israel-washington-security/index.html

I love this post. 

 

I also love consistent declarations to disliking crimes by Hamas. Express solidarity with both sides victims.

 

Within your community? I am guessing you have blood in the pool. Regardless, there has been great pains to paint the crimes of Israel first and foremost. My belief is the first task is to call for accountability within your chosen affiliation. Explore ways to stop the crimes of all militants.  

[4petesake]

40 minutes ago, stawns said:

And when I went on to clarify?

 

Yes you did and I thanked you for your clarification.

[madrigal77]

56 minutes ago, stawns said:

This government has been in power since 1996, with a few brief interludes for posterity.  

 

I'm disappointed that people who normally speak out against extremist governments in other places tacitly support one of the mist extreme, far right governments on the planet

 

I guess you throw "Israel" into the mix and people lose their objectivity.  But it's all good, nothing wrong with 5000 dead children in a month I guess

Which is exactly what Hamas planned for and wanted. Their blood is on Hamas hands, not Israel.

[moosehead]

5 minutes ago, madrigal77 said:

Which is exactly what Hamas planned for and wanted. Their blood is on Hamas hands, not Israel.

 

There is plenty of blood on both Hamas and Israel's government officials / IDF  hands.  Far too much  blood. 

Its always the good civilians that are hurt, never the corrupt officials / leaders . 

49 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Don't "Hitler" people.

 

 Occupation and oppression are not something we should be supporting as Canadians. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by moosehead

[testycal]

On 11/5/2023 at 6:00 PM, Alflives said:

So the message is controlled by Hamas. And Hamas is known as a propaganda machine. I appreciate the article link, thank you. 
I wonder what happens to Palestinian people who speak out against Hamas or who would represent a point of view different from the Hamas message? 

Dissenters...essentially accused of collaboration with Israel, falsely or otherwise, taken out back and shot and then dragged around downtown cores from time to time to ensure that others keep their points of view to themselves.  Realize that working in Israel in the past with a work permit that allowed a crossing into Israel provided better wages BUT also the downside of being too cozy with your employer.  In this part of the Arab world it is all about violence and intimidation.

[RomanPer]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

There intention was to end the war and minimize American casualties that would have piled up in an invasion of Japan, so, no, I don't consider that genocide.  Their intention wasn't to eliminate an entire group of people from existence.

 

Horrible, disturbing, un-necessary........ definitely.  Genocide, no.

 

 

Perhaps you are a history major, but your are definitely not an English major  

 

Now, think of it this way - bombing of Gaza is to minimize Israeli casualties that would have piled up otherwise. Weird, how selective our mind can be, right?