Hamas attacking Israel

[RomanPer]

6 hours ago, moosehead said:

...

If you mentioned 3 monkeys in the post I was replying to, I would look for appropriate example

[Ilunga]

21 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Sorry friend (and sorry to the other friend with the same account) but this is craperolla. Mits fact that Hamas is why we are at this spot. Hamas surrender, instead of hiding behind shiatsu, crayons, and the crippled in hospital and surrender then the ear is over. But cowards they are..Baby whiner cowards.

 

It certainly doesn't appear to be false Alf

 

The Times of Isreal reported the same figures a week ago.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-revises-death-toll-from-oct-7-hamas-assault-dropping-it-from-1400-to-1200/

 

 

[Super19]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

It certainly doesn't appear to be false Alf

 

The Times of Isreal reported the same figures a week ago.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-revises-death-toll-from-oct-7-hamas-assault-dropping-it-from-1400-to-1200/

 

 

Yes,  but there is information not in that article that was revealed in an interview with Mehdi Hasan on MSNBC earlier today.. an Israeli official said the reason for the readjusted death toll was because the bodies were so badly burned they mistook 200 casualties as Israeli when they were actually Hamas terrorists...

[JIAHN]

7 hours ago, moosehead said:

 

...

 

Moosehead, I read your comments and can't help but see the bias

I actually see some of your points...but can you answer me this

 

Can you give me 1 example in the entire history of mankind, where innocent civilians were not killed in mass?

 

You, mention the 2 million innocent civilians, but I can't help wonder, exactly how many are complicit? How many have harbored Hamas, or hid guns? How many are aged out Hamas? You say 2 million, like you were there counting them, but I wonder exactly how many cheered, when Hamas stormed Israel? 

 

War is hell, war is terrible, war is inhumane, war is war, and civilians die, civilian homes are destroyed......it is the very nature of war

 

I can not help but believe, that without social media, this war would be like every other war, in that the atrocities would not be reported.

 

Think about the famous picture of the naked child, with burned flesh, crying, and walking down the road in Vietnam. That was just one, but how many thousands, if not tens of thousands, were exactly like that, or worse..

 

Think about the bombing of London, and the ending of the war, where Berlin was flattened. Think about the tens of thousands killed, in a world that had far less people. Think about what Assad did to his own people. Think about the African tribal wars, where entire villages and people have been erased off the planet. Lets not talk about the Inca, Myans, or our own First Nations......or the god darn Norwegians...lol

 

You seemed outraged, about this war, as if you do not know this has always been the case. 

 

The truth is, the winners win, the losers lose. That is just a fact! And it will go on and on, and on! As long as you have extremists, power monglers, dictators, sadests, etc........as long as you have people that want what is yours, disagree with your existence, your religion, the color of your skin, etc......well you just have to accept the fact that is will happen again, and yell and scream, when it does.

 

Just remember, there was an uneasy peace before Oct. 8th...............but it was not going to last (IMHO) Too many crazys on both sides.

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

2 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

While the Palestinians don't have the resources or facilities to accommodate sports activities the Isrealis do 

 

As you mentioned soccer, this year 

 

https://www.jpost.com/j-spot/article-742186

 

2014 

 

Isreali and Palestinian kids marking the 100th anniversary of the Christmas truce on the western front in 1914 and the legendary football match.

 

https://www.jpost.com/not-just-news/palestinian-and-israeli-kids-play-soccer-match-to-mark-100th-anniversary-of-christmas-truce-384795

 

Isreali - Palestinian kids play for peace 

 

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4566485,00.html

 

And I posted this week's ago, the sport that brings us all together here on this board, Ice hockey 

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hockey-breaks-ice-for-arab-and-jewish-teens/

 

" When you play together, you forget that you are Arabs and Jews " Mayyas Sabag, a 12 year old forward from the Druse village of Madjal Shams. He is one of five Arab athletes on the 14 member team, which is travelling to Canada this month "

I played many games at the Canada Center ice in ...losing the name, northern Israel, almost as far north as you can go...Hezbollah rockets hit the barn 10 days ago...Kiryat Shmona..no.. ummm  oh yes : Metula. it was awesome. But i broke a Finn players colar bone with a crunching hip check..the shock wave i guess...lol 

[JIAHN]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

I played many games at the Canada Center ice in ...losing the name, northern Israel, almost as far north as you can go...Hezbollah rockets hit the barn 10 days ago...Kiryat Shmona..no.. ummm  oh yes : Metula. it was awesome. But i broke a Finn players colar bone with a crunching hip check..the shock wave i guess...lol 

You brute!

[Optimist Prime]

2 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

I dunno about that Alf 

Some pretty shocking stuff in this article brother 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/hockey-canada-discrimination-brock-mcgillis-1.6672832

 

" Is there homophobia ? One hundred percent. Is there racism ? You bet. Is there misogyny and sexism ? Yes. "

 

 

sadly yeah, i agree. One young 16 year old I am watching in BC Junior A...lets just say he is delicate

But he is 6'3" and got 48 goals last year in a nothing league at 15 in i think it was 30 games. This year he doesn't like the hitting and 'toughness' of the competition but he is the biggest guy on the ice at the earliest age for the league. I think he will come around in time. This isn't about him but folks like him: gentle players, lets say. he wil toughen up but the cards are stacked against him from teh outset if he isn't white hetero and into punchy face. 

 

[Optimist Prime]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Wasted effort King. You and I and all those with a thinking brain know Hamas is the evil entity that must be eliminated. Their actions on October 7 proved what they really are. Snd IMHAO that’s rats that must be exterminated. 
Sadly there will be those who don’t have the capacity to understand the Hamas (Russian and Iranian) propaganda and post it here. 
But we can be consoled knowing the IDF and countries allied with us will support Israel in their eliminating the tats that are hsmas. 
on a personal note. Are there a more cowardly group of (so called) soldiers than these Hsmas cowards? Seriously what kind of soldier kills a baby? What kind of soldier beheads a girl and then parades her headless body in the back of a pick up truck like a trophy? 
how anyone can support these cowards is just beyond old Alf. 

there are/were worse things out there, i know it is hard to believe. We are so fortunate to live in a country where the rule of law is paramount and Trucker Convoy notwithstanding, most of us, even the fringe elements know where the lines are. Somebody like 2 weeks ago was asking what happened to the value of human life...in the middle east it was pegged at 7 hundred and not even 50 dollars USD some time while I was there, so give 15 years inflation on that and it is pretty sad. 

My body guard for a vacation to Egypt was one seat ahead of us on a bus from Eilat Israel to Cairo, he said when the bus hit a pedestrian at a non crosswalk part of the highway, the body went flying ass over teakettle and landed with a deadly thud 20 meters behind us (bus was going full speed) he told my wife not to worry: they come and get the bodies after dark when it is safe to cross.

[Optimist Prime]

DIFFERING OPINIONS ARE FINE AND ENCOURAGED, HOWEVER NONE OF US MAY START, CONTINUE OR INCITE PERSONAL ATTACKS, OR FLAME WARS ON OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS HOCKEY FORUM. I HAVE TAKEN SUCH ACTION AS IS NECESSARY TO CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION FREE FROM VERBAL HARRASMENT. DO NOT START, CONTINUE OR INCITE PERSONAL ATTACKS OR FLAME WARS GOING FORWARD. 

[Super19]

Israel caught in more lies.

 

"There are no grounds for Israel's claim that the bombing of al-Ahli Arab Hospital was due to a failed missile launch from Islamic Jihad"

As for Israel's claims that the rocket had been fired from a nearby cemetery, the BBC found inconsistencies with that:

"Footage reviewed by the BBC, meanwhile, revealed inconsistencies in the reconstruction of events presented by Israeli army spokesperson Daniel Hagari on Wednesday. “The spokesman said it had been fired from a nearby cemetery – and there is a cemetery next to the hospital. But a map displayed by the spokesman showed a launch site further away. We have not been able to locate a cemetery there,” the British network said."

 

There was a tweet made by an Israeli official that admitted bombing the hospital?

"Posts on X sent by Hananya Naftali, a digital aide to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, also aroused suspicion. “Israeli Air Force struck a Hamas terrorist base inside a hospital in Gaza,” he wrote, but the post was almost immediately deleted.

By 10:58pm, Naftali apologised on X for sharing “a Reuters report” that “falsely stated Israel struck the hospital”. He said he had since deleted the tweet. “As the [Israeli army] does not bomb hospitals, I assumed Israel was targeting one of the Hamas bases in Gaza,” he added."

 

It also looks like the intercepted phone calls between Hamas officials was a lie. It's been disqualified as a credible source of evidence:

"Earshot  said that a forensic sound analysis revealed that the audio was recorded on two separate channels, and then edited together"

 

"In its analysis of the audio, Channel 4 said it had found the call’s credibility questionable due to the syntax used, accent and tone of voice."

 

Source: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/20/what-have-open-source-videos-revealed-about-the-gaza-hospital-explosion

[Super19]

 

In regards to Al-Shifa being a command centre for Hamas, here in this BBC segment the reporter says "Israel has either not found supporting evidence, or is not yet sharing it." From the evidence seen thus far, I don't see how anyone can justify this attack on Shifa hospital based on the fact Israel was allowed to do this because Shifa hospital is a major command centre for Hamas. Unless there is some evidence not yet shared by Israel... but until then the international community has the right to condemn this as a war crime because there is not enough evidence to support Shifa hospital as a major command centre for a terrorist organization. 

Many innocent lives have been ruined from this attack on Shifa hospital including premature babies who passed away earlier today. This sounds like collective punishment to me, either way.

[Canuck Surfer]

 

Not a great source; a sling from an American right handed pitcher...

 

 

[Super19]

18 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Not a great source; a sling from an American right handed pitcher...

 

 

This guy is pretty much saying all those who attend a pro-Palestine rally are either willfully ignorant or deceptive and that they hate Jews and don't think Jews deserve the State of Israel. Facepalm. I think its clear none of us ITT think that way. Equating palestenian support with a condemnation of the oppressive and occupying forces against Palestine to a hatred of Jewish people and the complete destruction of Israel is a dangerous stretch, and false. This guy is dangerous for saying that, he's the type of guy that could incite a nutcase to stir violence towards Palestinians or someone attending a pro-Palestine march. There's already been one child in Chicago, USA who died because a crazy guy stabbed him for being Palestinian and therefore "future terrorist/antiSemite/nazi".

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Super19

[Super19]

Doctors at Shifa hospital are saying that Israel has ordered everyone to evacuate the hospital within an hour, and are being told to do so at gunpoint. Israel has denied giving those orders.

450 patients are evacuating, many on foot. 120 patients have been left behind - literally too wounded to travel, and will die a tragic death. Doctors say many will not make it to the next facility because of their critical condition. 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/18/israel-gives-gazas-al-shifa-hospital-one-hour-to-evacuate#:~:text=Israeli forces ordered doctors%2C patients,facility have told Al Jazeera.

 

Edit: 

Really, how trustworthy is the IDF right now? And keeping in mind that this is an army that have killed over 11, 12, what 13k palestenians now? Okay it's a war, against Hamas. Shit happens in a war against terrorists. But 70% being women and children dead is an evil ratio.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Super19

[Super19]

4 hours ago, Super19 said:

Yes,  but there is information not in that article that was revealed in an interview with Mehdi Hasan on MSNBC earlier today.. an Israeli official said the reason for the readjusted death toll was because the bodies were so badly burned they mistook 200 casualties as Israeli when they were actually Hamas terrorists...

From this piece of information told by the Israeli official during this interview, X user, Caitlin Johnstone, brings forth the conclusion that the IDF appeared to have killed Israelis on Oct 7. See the reasoning below:

 

[Gurn]

19 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Really, how trustworthy is the IDF right now?

Not very.

Nor for that matter is anything from Hamas.

Strange, just a few wars ago Colin Powell, along with others, got trotted out on national  tv to spout bullshit.

People believed it then, but found out different later on; yet here we go again.

 

"The first casualty of war is truth"

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

Israel caught in more lies.

 

"There are no grounds for Israel's claim that the bombing of al-Ahli Arab Hospital was due to a failed missile launch from Islamic Jihad"

As for Israel's claims that the rocket had been fired from a nearby cemetery, the BBC found inconsistencies with that:

"Footage reviewed by the BBC, meanwhile, revealed inconsistencies in the reconstruction of events presented by Israeli army spokesperson Daniel Hagari on Wednesday. “The spokesman said it had been fired from a nearby cemetery – and there is a cemetery next to the hospital. But a map displayed by the spokesman showed a launch site further away. We have not been able to locate a cemetery there,” the British network said."

 

There was a tweet made by an Israeli official that admitted bombing the hospital?

"Posts on X sent by Hananya Naftali, a digital aide to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, also aroused suspicion. “Israeli Air Force struck a Hamas terrorist base inside a hospital in Gaza,” he wrote, but the post was almost immediately deleted.

By 10:58pm, Naftali apologised on X for sharing “a Reuters report” that “falsely stated Israel struck the hospital”. He said he had since deleted the tweet. “As the [Israeli army] does not bomb hospitals, I assumed Israel was targeting one of the Hamas bases in Gaza,” he added."

 

It also looks like the intercepted phone calls between Hamas officials was a lie. It's been disqualified as a credible source of evidence:

"Earshot  said that a forensic sound analysis revealed that the audio was recorded on two separate channels, and then edited together"

 

"In its analysis of the audio, Channel 4 said it had found the call’s credibility questionable due to the syntax used, accent and tone of voice."

 

Source: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/20/what-have-open-source-videos-revealed-about-the-gaza-hospital-explosion

 

The actual pictures from the next day tell a completely different story than the propaganda channel of Hamas (Al Jazeera)...

 

The hospital wasn't even hit, it was the parking lot.  The "crater" in the parking lot is only one foot wide and one foot deep.  An Israeli rocket could not have done this little amount of damage, most of the cars aren't even damaged...

 

 

[Super19]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

The actual pictures from the next day tell a completely different story than the propaganda channel of Hamas (Al Jazeera)...

 

The hospital wasn't even hit, it was the parking lot.  The "crater" in the parking lot is only one foot wide and one foot deep.  An Israeli rocket could not have done this little amount of damage, most of the cars aren't even damaged...

 

 

Since we all become rocket experts that week...

 

Yes, Hamas does not have the same firepower Israel has to make craters one would expect.

 

However, Israel does have other rockets which can burst in air, and the main cause of damage is from the shrapnel. The parking lot was full of people being displaced from their homes which were bombed, and the hospital parking lot served as a sort of refugee camp. It was definitely a spot where shrapnel would cause damage to life, less so destruction to buildings.

[Elias Pettersson]

19 minutes ago, Super19 said:

From this piece of information told by the Israeli official during this interview, X user, Caitlin Johnstone, brings forth the conclusion that the IDF appeared to have killed Israelis on Oct 7. See the reasoning below:

 

 

That's not what the tweets say.  Israel does not say they killed their own people.  The actual video says they changed their death count from 1400 to 1200 because 200 badly burned bodies are now identified as Hamas terrorists...

 

 

[Super19]

9 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Not very.

Nor for that matter is anything from Hamas.

Strange, just a few wars ago Colin Powell, along with others, got trotted out on national  tv to spout bullshit.

People believed it then, but found out different later on; yet here we go again.

 

"The first casualty of war is truth"

Agreed.

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Since we all become rocket experts that week...

 

Yes, Hamas does not have the same firepower Israel has to make craters one would expect.

 

However, Israel does have other rockets which can burst in air, and the main cause of damage is from the shrapnel. The parking lot was full of people being displaced from their homes which were bombed, and the hospital parking lot served as a sort of refugee camp. It was definitely a spot where shrapnel would cause damage to life, less so destruction to buildings.

 

So where is the evidence that Israel's "other" rockets burst in the air and caused shrapnel to fall in the parking lot?  Al Jazeera doesn't have any evidence to claim this...

 

Also, Hamas propaganda said initially that the hospital was hit and 500 people died.  Are we supposed to believe them now that they keep changing their story?

Edited November 18, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Super19]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

That's not what the tweets say.  Israel does not say they killed their own people.  The actual video says they changed their death count from 1400 to 1200 because 200 badly burned bodies are now identified as Hamas terrorists...

 

 

The hamas badly burned bodies was mixed in with the Israeli badly burned bodies. Hamas weapons in that raid amd attack does not cause badly burned bodies but IDF weapons can. 

It's either Hamas had weapons it probably doesn't have that they carried across the border, and killed the Israelis with it, badly burning them, and they also killed Hamas fighters with it, badly burning them

Or

IDF got crossed up between who was who and just started blasting to destroy the imminent terrorist threat ASAP, unfortunately killing Israelis in the process. IDF were given orders to shell Israeli homes and their own bases during the overwhelming attack.

 

[Super19]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

So where is the evidence that Israel's "other" rockets burst in the air and caused shrapnel to fall in the parking lot?  Al Jazeera doesn't have any evidence to claim this...

 

Also, Hamas propaganda said initially that the hospital was hit and 500 people died.  Are we supposed to believe them now that they keep changing their story?

500 got revised down to 470, and even American intelligence had it upwards of 300. Discrepancy there isn't too far off. Also minute by minute updates given are not accurate. But in the end yes hundreds were dead and injured and there were some that weren't able to be identified and the health ministry makes it a point to have records of each one dead when reporting their numbers.

[Elias Pettersson]

 

[Super19]

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

So where is the evidence that Israel's "other" rockets burst in the air and caused shrapnel to fall in the parking lot?  Al Jazeera doesn't have any evidence to claim this...

 

Also, Hamas propaganda said initially that the hospital was hit and 500 people died.  Are we supposed to believe them now that they keep changing their story?

Watch the Al Jazeera video. It's objective evidence in the way it was reported, well done video. It doesn't matter if Toronto Maple Leafs made that video or our Canucks, so don't dismiss the source but check out the material. It was a bold claim for Al Jazeera to make, so they were damn sure to be sure of what they said. Journalism isn't completely dead.