Hamas attacking Israel

[Bob Long]

41 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If the lady isn’t a Canadian citizen then toss her. If she is one then charge her and lock her up. She sounds so evil it’s unbelievable. 

 

She sounds like a moron. Sending her there sound like a great idea, but even morons in Canada get a chance to get help.

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

Is there a rule we can't build our own boats?

I borrowed a theme from the Middle East and bought and built a compound. it is like a boat with very limited animals. Eagles, Ravens, my Doggo's, squirrels and rabbits. An occassional racoon washing something off in my pond. some smaller birds...that is about it. oh and a big effin KEEP OUT/Keep Gate Closed/Video Surveilance of Property 24/7 sign. It is so far working great..if i feel the urge to argue  with strangers I just log in to the interwebs. 

 

[Ilunga]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I borrowed a theme from the Middle East and bought and built a compound. it is like a boat with very limited animals. Eagles, Ravens, my Doggo's, squirrels and rabbits. An occassional racoon washing something off in my pond. some smaller birds...that is about it. oh and a big effin KEEP OUT/Keep Gate Closed/Video Surveilance of Property 34/7 signs. 

 

A friend of mine used to have a sign out in front of his property, 

Nothing in this house is worth your life.

[RomanPer]

11 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

A friend of mine used to have a sign out in front of his property, 

Nothing in this house is worth your life.

 

It’s not that simple in Canada. If you catch a thief in your house red handed and shoot him, you will be standing trial. Self-defence is extremely hard to prove in Canada.

[Ilunga]

1 minute ago, RomanPer said:

 

It’s not that simple in Canada. If you catch a thief in your house red handed and shoot him, you will be standing trial. Self-defence is extremely hard to prove in Canada.

 

I used to own a original 1972 XY Falcon GT.

Even back then because they were a rare car, only just over 1550 cars built.

Many were written off by guys driving fast/ drunk, no enforcement of those laws like today.

The stories I heard about these cars being stolen no matter what the security measures that were taken were nuts.

 

Anyway at one time I was wondering about connecting it to 240 volts, that's what we run here in Aus.

I found out that, that would have broken man trap laws.

If injured, I could have been criminally charged and civilly sued.

If the person actually died, charged with manslaughter at the very least.

 

As for my friend, he was a Coffin Cheater, an outlaw biker, one of the decent old school ones from back in the day. 

It wasn't advisable to fuck with him.

[RomanPer]

These in this thread who don’t believe - there’s really nothing i can do or say to change your opinion. But perhaps someone who lived and experienced all the sides of the equation will be able to convince you to start thinking differently 

 

 

[Ilunga]

21 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

These in this thread who don’t believe - there’s really nothing i can do or say to change your opinion. But perhaps someone who lived and experienced all the sides of the equation will be able to convince you to start thinking differently 

 

 

 

" I feel for the Palestinians

I feel for the Americans 

I feel for the Isrealis "

 

" I wanted my father to step in my shoes " 

 

" I won't to take part in killing "

 

What I take away from this is empathy, this man has empathy for everyone.

[Elias Pettersson]

3 hours ago, RomanPer said:

For all the “we are anti-Israel, not antisemities” crowd - here’s where your rhetoric is leading

 

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/woman-alleged-to-be-durham-college-student-proud-of-hamas

 

She should be arrested immediately, it is against Canadian law to support a terrorist organization.  This is a hate crime.  Is Canada going to do soemthing about this, or are they going to keep allowing this to happen?  They arrested Canadian citizen truckers and even froze their bank accounts, this is 1000x worse...

 

 

[King Heffy]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

 

She should be arrested immediately, it is against Canadian law to support a terrorist organization.  This is a hate crime.  Is Canada going to do soemthing about this, or are they going to keep allowing this to happen?  They arrested Canadian citizen truckers and even froze their bank accounts, this is 1000x worse...

 

 

There's no excuse for her not being in prison.  Terrorism has no place in Canada.

[Elias Pettersson]

Here is more from this anti-semite student in Canada.  How she is able to attend a college in Canada is beyond me.  Imagine being a Jew sitting in the same class as her...

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

So, the far left is now grouping themselves together with the far right Nazis.  This should be interesting.  Both of these hate filled groups seem to be like minded individuals intent on filling this world with hate...

 

 

[Super19]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Love your tit for tat. That Palestinian kid is in Canada. So unless he is a Canadian citizen he should be deported along with his parents. 
 

Also, I didn’t see any rebuttal yet from you on the fact that there are actual tunnels around the Al Shifa hospital and that the terrorists are using the hospital to bring in hostages, specifically from October 7. 
 

Aren’t you the one that said this was fake news? 

From face value that video shows Hamas taking Oct 7 hostages to the hospital. Hamas has said they had Oct 7 hostages treated for their injuries. Is the most prevailing conclusion from that video not the most logical one? That Hamas brought in injured hostages to the hospital to get treated? You may argue that Hamas took the hostages right through the front doors of the hospital to secure the hostages in the supposed Hamas tunnel headquarters under al-Shifa. You may then argue the IDF targetted al-Shifa to extract the hostages. But this is inconsistent with Israel's original claims for targeting al-Shifa. For clarity, the reason IDF targetted al-Shifa was based on supposed Israeli intel that the hospital was directly on top of the supposed Hamas tunnel headquarters. IDF was clear of this, and they had nice 3D animations of what they suspected. The intent was to destroy and eliminate this main Hamas centre. Infact, Israel's broad bombardment of Gaza, according to Israeli officials, is to serve the goal of destruction and the elimination of Hamas, not accuracy. If this was about the hostages, then firstly, why not just take the hostage-prisoner swap deal? Also, if this was about the hostages, Israel did not know about this video until after it had targeted and infiltrated the hospital. Additionally, the IDF would take more care in the bombardment of Gaza and Hamas targetted areas so as to not accidently kill the hostages, right? So what am I rebuting here? If anything it just reinforces claims made by Hamas that they treated some hostages.

 

Yes, there are Hamas tunnels under Gaza. Evidence presented thus far however is underwhelming to Israel's claims. But this is a step in the right direction. IDF found a tunnel under al-Shifa. Still a far cry from what was suggested. Also I have said before that perhaps there is more evidence, just nothing seen so far matches the claims. So please keep updating as more information comes.

 

Also, please respect and understand my views that I find targeting a hospital unacceptable. It deserves the most scrutiny possible. Babies died there because of this man... This whole bombardment of Gaza is effed up! Too many innocents have been killed. Too much destruction has been caused. Too much pain for an already oppressed people. Palestinian life is a heartbreaking story and they are living through the worst chapter as we speak. Jewish people have been through worse but the State of Israel was a win for humanity, tt has the right to exist, but let's have another win for humanity - free Palestine. Let the two to co-exist. Jews and Muslims have lived together in peace for hundreds of years.

 

What is your rebuttal to the evidence that IDF killed Israelis on Oct 7?

 

I think we all wish the IDF had done things differently. And if someone doesn't, then I don't think those people are too different than the ones that think Hamas shouldn't have done things differently. There is a perspective of whoever is fully supporting what the IDF is doing right now as the right to self defense, and there is a perspective of whoever is fully supporting Hamas right now as a resistance to oppression. Some Israelis and the IDF want vengeance, some Palestenians and Hamas want vengeance. I think the vast majority, including myself, is somewhere in the middle, just wishing for peace.

[Cerridwen]

23 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Well it took almost 15 years and I think that's it for me on this forum gents. Logging in to see that personally addressed hypocrisy was about all I could take.

 

Been a slice

 

Gonna miss you, Hip. I'm sorry things have gone South for you here. Just know you'll always be welcome here should you choose to come back. I hope all is OK outside of CDC.

[4petesake]

30 minutes ago, Super19 said:

From face value that video shows Hamas taking Oct 7 hostages to the hospital. Hamas has said they had Oct 7 hostages treated for their injuries. Is the most prevailing conclusion from that video not the most logical one? That Hamas brought in injured hostages to the hospital to get treated? You may argue that Hamas took the hostages right through the front doors of the hospital to secure the hostages in the supposed Hamas tunnel headquarters under al-Shifa. You may then argue the IDF targetted al-Shifa to extract the hostages. But this is inconsistent with Israel's original claims for targeting al-Shifa. For clarity, the reason IDF targetted al-Shifa was based on supposed Israeli intel that the hospital was directly on top of the supposed Hamas tunnel headquarters. IDF was clear of this, and they had nice 3D animations of what they suspected. The intent was to destroy and eliminate this main Hamas centre. Infact, Israel's broad bombardment of Gaza, according to Israeli officials, is to serve the goal of destruction and the elimination of Hamas, not accuracy. If this was about the hostages, then firstly, why not just take the hostage-prisoner swap deal? Also, if this was about the hostages, Israel did not know about this video until after it had targeted and infiltrated the hospital. Additionally, the IDF would take more care in the bombardment of Gaza and Hamas targetted areas so as to not accidently kill the hostages, right? So what am I rebuting here? If anything it just reinforces claims made by Hamas that they treated some hostages.

 

Yes, there are Hamas tunnels under Gaza. Evidence presented thus far however is underwhelming to Israel's claims. But this is a step in the right direction. IDF found a tunnel under al-Shifa. Still a far cry from what was suggested. Also I have said before that perhaps there is more evidence, just nothing seen so far matches the claims. So please keep updating as more information comes.

 

Also, please respect and understand my views that I find targeting a hospital unacceptable. It deserves the most scrutiny possible. Babies died there because of this man... This whole bombardment of Gaza is effed up! Too many innocents have been killed. Too much destruction has been caused. Too much pain for an already oppressed people. Palestinian life is a heartbreaking story and they are living through the worst chapter as we speak. Jewish people have been through worse but the State of Israel was a win for humanity, tt has the right to exist, but let's have another win for humanity - free Palestine. Let the two to co-exist. Jews and Muslims have lived together in peace for hundreds of years.

 

What is your rebuttal to the evidence that IDF killed Israelis on Oct 7?

 

I think we all wish the IDF had done things differently. And if someone doesn't, then I don't think those people are too different than the ones that think Hamas shouldn't have done things differently. There is a perspective of whoever is fully supporting what the IDF is doing right now as the right to self defense, and there is a perspective of whoever is fully supporting Hamas right now as a resistance to oppression. Some Israelis and the IDF want vengeance, some Palestenians and Hamas want vengeance. I think the vast majority, including myself, is somewhere in the middle, just wishing for peace.

There doesn’t seem to be any doubt that the al-Shifa hospital was filled with Hamas and Fatah soldiers in 2006 and I’m guessing nothing would have changed after Hamas defeated Fatah.

 

PBS Wide Angle Documentary ‘Gaza e.r.’ from 2006. The trailer for the doco is in the link.

 

About the Film

In the summer of 2006, as internal battles fracture the Palestinian Territories, WIDE ANGLE provides a glimpse inside the conflict as it spirals out of control. Gaza E.R. follows doctors, nurses, and staff at Shifa Hospital, the largest in the Gaza Strip, as they struggle in the face of turf wars between Hamas, rival faction Fatah, and powerful families with competing agendas. Our cameras reveal that gun-battles inside the hospital, massive shortages of pharmaceuticals and basic supplies, and unpaid salaries are routine occupational hazards at this medical outpost in the troubled Palestinian landscape.

 

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/uncategorized/preview-gaza-er-2/4082/

 

[Super19]

9 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

...

Those are the claims. 

[Super19]

20 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

There doesn’t seem to be any doubt that the al-Shifa hospital was filled with Hamas and Fatah soldiers in 2006 and I’m guessing nothing would have changed after Hamas defeated Fatah.

 

PBS Wide Angle Documentary ‘Gaza e.r.’ from 2006. The trailer for the doco is in the link.

 

About the Film

In the summer of 2006, as internal battles fracture the Palestinian Territories, WIDE ANGLE provides a glimpse inside the conflict as it spirals out of control. Gaza E.R. follows doctors, nurses, and staff at Shifa Hospital, the largest in the Gaza Strip, as they struggle in the face of turf wars between Hamas, rival faction Fatah, and powerful families with competing agendas. Our cameras reveal that gun-battles inside the hospital, massive shortages of pharmaceuticals and basic supplies, and unpaid salaries are routine occupational hazards at this medical outpost in the troubled Palestinian landscape.

 

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/uncategorized/preview-gaza-er-2/4082/

 

If nothing changed since 2006, Hamas would this time be fighting the IDF inside the hospital instead of Fatah.

 

Looks like all the IDF were met with in al-Shifa was just normal brutal war-time hospital functions. They did uncover part of a tunnel underneath, but no sign of active Hamas operations and sadly no current evidence that justifies disruptions to the hospital to innocent people that very much needed it. I think all the IDF has to show for it is a few dufflebags of guns, a calender (i really wanna laugh at this one), and a 55m tunnel (which could lead to more). These are not justified to the innocent people that died and are enduring much pain as a direct result of this IDF response to Hamas terror. If this isn't collective punishment, whatever it is, it's effed.

[4petesake]

24 minutes ago, Super19 said:

If nothing changed since 2006, Hamas would this time be fighting the IDF inside the hospital instead of Fatah.

 

Looks like all the IDF were met with in al-Shifa was just normal brutal war-time hospital functions. They did uncover part of a tunnel underneath, but no sign of active Hamas operations and sadly no current evidence that justifies disruptions to the hospital to innocent people that very much needed it. I think all the IDF has to show for it is a few dufflebags of guns, a calender (i really wanna laugh at this one), and a 55m tunnel (which could lead to more). These are not justified to the innocent people that died and are enduring much pain as a direct result of this IDF response to Hamas terror. If this isn't collective punishment, whatever it is, it's effed.

You can certainly take from it whatever you like but the fact is (and is seen in the video) that the hospital was filled with armed militias, both Hamas & Fatah, in 2006. If you choose to believe that they wouldn’t do the same today so be it. Your choice.  
 

William Booth, Washington Post correspondent , July 2014

 

At the Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, crowds gathered to throw shoes and eggs at the Palestinian Authority’s health minister, who represents the crumbling “unity government” in the West Bank city of Ramallah. The minister was turned away before he reached the hospital, which has become a de facto headquarters for Hamas leaders, who can be seen in the hallways and offices.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/while-israel-held-its-fire-the-militant-group-hamas-did-not/2014/07/15/116fd3d7-3c0f-4413-94a9-2ab16af1445d_story.html

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by 4petesake

[Super19]

10 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

You can certainly take from it whatever you like but the fact is (and is seen in the video) that the hospital was filled with armed militias, both Hamas & Fatah, in 2006. If you choose to believe that they wouldn’t do the same today so be it. Your choice.

I'm choosing not to believe it because I haven't seen it, and seeing it from 2006 doesn't mean I saw it in Nov 2023.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

Those are the claims. 

 

Did you even bother to read the tweet and the attached "assessment"?  There is no assessment attached, it's simply an article from a Hamas propaganda journalist who quotes "police sources".  Where are the police sources?  Where is the actual 'assessment" that was supposedly done that shows an Israeli Apache helicopter killed its own people?

 

This is directly from the article but doesn't even have a link to the actual source document:

 

The assessment of the security establishment is based, among other things, on the interrogations of the terrorists and an investigation of the incident by the police, which indicates that the terrorists intended to go to Kibbutz Re'im and kibbutzim in the area. According to police, 364 people were killed at the festival.

 

According to a police source, an investigation of the incident also indicates that an IDF combat helicopter that arrived at the scene from the Ramat David base fired at the terrorists, apparently hitting some of the revelers who were there.

 

Where is the "police source" document?

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, Super19 said:

From face value that video shows Hamas taking Oct 7 hostages to the hospital. Hamas has said they had Oct 7 hostages treated for their injuries. Is the most prevailing conclusion from that video not the most logical one? That Hamas brought in injured hostages to the hospital to get treated? You may argue that Hamas took the hostages right through the front doors of the hospital to secure the hostages in the supposed Hamas tunnel headquarters under al-Shifa. You may then argue the IDF targetted al-Shifa to extract the hostages. But this is inconsistent with Israel's original claims for targeting al-Shifa. For clarity, the reason IDF targetted al-Shifa was based on supposed Israeli intel that the hospital was directly on top of the supposed Hamas tunnel headquarters. IDF was clear of this, and they had nice 3D animations of what they suspected. The intent was to destroy and eliminate this main Hamas centre. Infact, Israel's broad bombardment of Gaza, according to Israeli officials, is to serve the goal of destruction and the elimination of Hamas, not accuracy. If this was about the hostages, then firstly, why not just take the hostage-prisoner swap deal? Also, if this was about the hostages, Israel did not know about this video until after it had targeted and infiltrated the hospital. Additionally, the IDF would take more care in the bombardment of Gaza and Hamas targetted areas so as to not accidently kill the hostages, right? So what am I rebuting here? If anything it just reinforces claims made by Hamas that they treated some hostages.

 

Yes, there are Hamas tunnels under Gaza. Evidence presented thus far however is underwhelming to Israel's claims. But this is a step in the right direction. IDF found a tunnel under al-Shifa. Still a far cry from what was suggested. Also I have said before that perhaps there is more evidence, just nothing seen so far matches the claims. So please keep updating as more information comes.

 

Also, please respect and understand my views that I find targeting a hospital unacceptable. It deserves the most scrutiny possible. Babies died there because of this man... This whole bombardment of Gaza is effed up! Too many innocents have been killed. Too much destruction has been caused. Too much pain for an already oppressed people. Palestinian life is a heartbreaking story and they are living through the worst chapter as we speak. Jewish people have been through worse but the State of Israel was a win for humanity, tt has the right to exist, but let's have another win for humanity - free Palestine. Let the two to co-exist. Jews and Muslims have lived together in peace for hundreds of years.

 

What is your rebuttal to the evidence that IDF killed Israelis on Oct 7?

 

I think we all wish the IDF had done things differently. And if someone doesn't, then I don't think those people are too different than the ones that think Hamas shouldn't have done things differently. There is a perspective of whoever is fully supporting what the IDF is doing right now as the right to self defense, and there is a perspective of whoever is fully supporting Hamas right now as a resistance to oppression. Some Israelis and the IDF want vengeance, some Palestenians and Hamas want vengeance. I think the vast majority, including myself, is somewhere in the middle, just wishing for peace.

 

So, your rebuttal is that Hamas terrorists took the injured Israeli hostages and were nicey nicey to them by taking them to the hospital for treatment?  

 

It's been well documented that the Al-Shifa hospital is the main headquarters of Hamas since 2006.  There is evidence everywhere for the last 17 years.  You even admit this was the case in 2006, but now there is no evidence that shows this in 2023.  So, basically Hamas started to use the hospital as their main headquarters in 2006 but then changed their mind along the way because they started to have feelings for the people of Gaza?

 

You keep talking about the suffering of the Palestinian people, but you never seem to accept why they are suffering in the first place.  Because they are being led by a terrorist organization that doesn't actually care about them.  Why can't you seem to understand this?  Why do you keep claiming that it is Israel that is oppressing the people in Gaza, when we all know that it is Hamas that are oppressing their own people?  The only way to save the people in Gaza is to eliminate Hamas.  Which is exactly what the IDF are doing.  They are not carpet bombing Gaza, contrary to popular belief.  They are now in a ground war to eliminate Hamas permanently.  They won't stop until Hamas is eradicated from the earth...

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, Super19 said:

Jewish people have been through worse but the State of Israel was a win for humanity, tt has the right to exist

 

I appreciate this statement.  I hope it was not too buried for others to see.

[Canuck Surfer]

18 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

Stinks of desperation to me, to keep the outrage going. The IDF must be closer to ending Hamas rule than we think.

 

Some historical context;

 

The Houthi Rebels of Yemen are based from Houthi minority tribes of Northern Yemen. Predominantly Zaid Muslims.  A sect of Shia Muslims aligned with Iran.  They cry Ansar Allah! > 'Supporters of God...,' but adopting power by the sword.  Their goal, cough, is righteous. Practically speaking it is simply to rule all of Yemen.

 

Its very similar to Hamas, although their sect proclaim Zayd to be the Imam to whom obedience is obligatory. The ''CALL,'' or Dawah, to convert others to islam by Jihad, and observance of Zayd the common & difference points in allegiances.  In practical terms, appeal to adopt their form of Islam is not optional. Its enforced by sword, fist, hammer.  Unfortunately by rape, and Pogrom. Like Hamas decried PLO leader Yasir Arafat corrupt, Palestinian Authority in more recent alignments. Houthi's decried former Yemen dictator Ali Abdullah Saleh corrupt. Which, like Arafat, he was absolutely was.  

 

Like Hamas again, timed during the start of the Arab Spring? Both groups emerged when longer term power brokers tried to launder both money and power. In peace deals with Saudi's and the West / Israel.  Or maybe save their arses from these new groups to overtake them? Who threw their culture back in to civil war, back in to Jihad. Of course everyone paying an allegiance tax with now them as gatekeepers of religion & security common. This simply a repeat model, or playbook of past successful Jihadists like Saleh & Arafat, Khadafy being duplicated? Militants don't want peace, until they, Houthi's & Hamas control power & profits from being in control.

 

Critically, civilian war and hunger driven casualty rates of Muslim infighting is catastrophic compared to that in Gaza. A Shia versus Sunni conflict for corruption privileges. No different than any drive to be in power by Hamas. Neither care about loss in human terms. These Human Shields forgotten when Israel West is not to blame?

 

When Saudi's carpet bomb Houthi's in retaliation? The World seems not to be proclaiming a Holocaust, or Apartheid. When the activity & scale is in fact graphic by comparison. As many civilians have died in Yemen in the last four years as Palestinians displaced & dead since 1948.     

 

It is worth noting there are almost no Jews or Christians left in Yemen either.  Funny that?    

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Some historical context;

 

The Houthi Rebels of Yemen are based from Houthi minority tribes of Northern Yemen. Predominantly Zaid Muslims.  A sect of Shia Muslims aligned with Iran.  They cry Ansar Allah! > 'Supporters of God...,' but adopting power by the sword.  Their goal, cough, is righteous. Practically speaking it is simply to rule all of Yemen.

 

Its very similar to Hamas, although their sect proclaim Zayd to be the Imam to whom obedience is obligatory. The ''CALL,'' or Dawah, to convert others to islam by Jihad, and observance of Zayd the common & difference points in allegiances.  In practical terms, appeal to adopt their form of Islam is not optional. Its enforced by sword, fist, hammer.  Unfortunately by rape, and Pogrom. Like Hamas decried PLO leader Yasir Arafat corrupt, Palestinian Authority in more recent alignments. Houthi's decried former Yemen dictator Ali Abdullah Saleh corrupt. Which, like Arafat, he was absolutely was.  

 

Like Hamas again, timed during the start of the Arab Spring? Both groups emerged when longer term power brokers tried to launder both money and power. In peace deals with Saudi's and the West / Israel.  Or maybe save their arses from these new groups to overtake them? Who threw their culture back in to civil war, back in to Jihad. Of course everyone paying an allegiance tax with now them as gatekeepers of religion & security common. This simply a repeat model, or playbook of past successful Jihadists like Saleh & Arafat, Khadafy being duplicated? Militants don't want peace, until they, Houthi's & Hamas control power & profits from being in control.

 

Critically, civilian war and hunger driven casualty rates of Muslim infighting is catastrophic compared to that in Gaza. A Shia versus Sunni conflict for corruption privileges. No different than any drive to be in power by Hamas. Neither care about loss in human terms. These Human Shields forgotten when Israel West is not to blame?

 

When Saudi's carpet bomb Houthi's in retaliation? The World seems not to be proclaiming a Holocaust, or Apartheid. When the activity & scale is in fact graphic by comparison. As many civilians have died in Yemen in the last four years as Palestinians displaced & dead since 1948.     

 

It is worth noting there are almost no Jews or Christians left in Yemen either.  Funny that?    

 

Thanks for the context. Tbh that kind of thing gives me a headache. It's a great example of how toxic things can get in the region.