Hamas attacking Israel

[Ilunga]

Just now, Alflives said:

Not many “facts” in war except it’s really bad for the innocent folk.  But yes, there are a couple posters here who have first hand information. 

 

For starters my post about Iran is factual information. 

I didn't bother posting links because I already have in previous posts.

Much of this is common knowledge to those of us who have been following the history of the middle east for decades. 

 

 

[Bob Long]

42 minutes ago, Super19 said:

66 journalists died as well.

 

War correspondents are brave souls. There's no way of really protecting them

 

[RomanPer]

17 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

For starters my post about Iran is factual information. 

I didn't bother posting links because I already have in previous posts.

Much of this is common knowledge to those of us who have been following the history of the middle east for decades. 

 

 

I don’t think Alf was questioning your post. He (and I) question the numbers of casualties provided by Hamas.

[bishopshodan]

29 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Iran wasn't better before the revolution for the average Iranian.

That's why there was a revolution, the ruling elite might have been secular however they kept most of the wealth for themselves. 

It was also a brutal, repressive regime, their secret police, the Savak, tortured and murdered many Iranians.

 

Then in the 90's reforms were happening, " the Tehran Spring " under the reformist government of Mohammad Khatami.

Bush's comments about an axis of evil enabled the hardliners to put the focus back on the west, rather than the internal issues that were starting to be addressed. 

 

I have already posted information about this. 

 

The one democratically elected government that Iran had was overthrown in a CIA and British backed coup.

 

 

I was just shooting from the hip, remembering a bit of what my father-in-law claims. Just chatted quckly with the wife and she said 'not quite better at all..' then went on to state some of what you mentioned.

Always like reading your education. cheers

[Ilunga]

3 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

I don’t think Alf was questioning your post. He (and I) question the numbers of casualties provided by Hamas.

 

So do I brother.

 

However even if only a few hundred children have been killed, that's a fuckin tragedy. 

 

I don't want to get into an argument about justification, I only know a parents worst nightmare is for their child to die before they do.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

So do I brother.

 

However even if only a few hundred children have been killed, that's a fuckin tragedy. 

 

I don't want to get into an argument about justification, I only know a parents worst nightmare is for their child to die before they do.

Very true. Without children we (humans) have no future. But Hamas (IMHAO) hide behind children. They twist the minds of children too. Hamas are the guilty ones here. And hopefully the IDF can put an end to them quickly. Then it’s still going to take a generation of freedom from the brainwashing of Hamas to truly free the people of Gaza. We only need to look at how that young woman student in one of our Canadian universities was saying terribly hateful things to understand the effects of Hamas propaganda and influence on young people. 
It’s so sad. Hamas would prefer we, who don’t believe as they do, we’re all dead, yet there are so many who seem eager to believe they’re fighting for the people of Gaza and (therefore) should be defended. IMHAO (has Alf presented this as his opinion often enough?) Hamas is evil. Their beliefs are evil. Their exploitation of those who are innocent (children) is evil) 

[Ilunga]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Very true. Without children we (humans) have no future. But Hamas (IMHAO) hide behind children. They twist the minds of children too. Hamas are the guilty ones here. And hopefully the IDF can put an end to them quickly. Then it’s still going to take a generation of freedom from the brainwashing of Hamas to truly free the people of Gaza. We only need to look at how that young woman student in one of our Canadian universities was saying terribly hateful things to understand the effects of Hamas propaganda and influence on young people. 
It’s so sad. Hamas would prefer we, who don’t believe as they do, we’re all dead, yet there are so many who seem eager to believe they’re fighting for the people of Gaza and (therefore) should be defended. IMHAO (has Alf presented this as his opinion often enough?) Hamas is evil. Their beliefs are evil. Their exploitation of those who are innocent (children) is evil) 

 

The future ?

Sometimes it was hard to look my son in the eye realising the legacy that ours, and past generations are handing down to them. 

 

I have never loved another human being as much as I love my son.

Seeing the images coming out of Gaza, parents devastated by the loss of their children, words fail me.

 

This conflict has existed long before Hamas took control of Gaza. 

What is happening now will breed more people on both sides that will not accept a peaceful solution, we can already see this playing out. 

 

What about a one state solution, say Palesreal ? 

 

And no, I am not joking.

 

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

7 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

wow. 

 

So any idea on how long the southern plan might be? or is it a less dangerous area, in terms of hidden rocket launch areas and that kind of thing. 

 

They obviously can't "get" all the Hamas folks, so wondering what the plan is next? or is the disarray there enough to tamp down anything major?

 

only some good/decent guesses. I imagine once the north of HWY 10 is secured, maybe even in the last days of securing it, the IDF will push slightly further south to the actual banks of the Wadi Gaza. Securing from the river north before the end of November. I think then, at least if it were I drawing up the plans, there is another semi-natural divide at Al-Matahen Street, another spot where the road runs from the Sea to the fence and generally would cut the middle third off of the thick base of Khan Yunis and the lot, Rafa et cetera. If they plan to put boots on the ground of every block in all the strip, it makes sense to do it in that order. Leaving the thicker southwestern end of the strip till last keeps the Rafa Gate available to the people of Gaza for supply lines, and that middle third area is far less densely built up than Gaza City or Khan Yunis, so it would go very fast, maybe 10 days? maybe less? 

The final tough slog would be the bottom third. Unsure if that is the plan or not, but if it is the intention to root out Hamas from every nook and cranny it just makes sense that this area too will need to be taken under IDF control. My own wish is that once the top end is secure, Israel floods it with aid and builds up camps very quickly to begin vetting Gazans into....and likely real open air prisons for suspected Hamas at the same time in the north of Gaza. 

Hopefully IF, and its all 'what if's' at this point...if that is the plan, hopefully the southern bit will go faster than this northern bit and all of Gaza will be under IDF control before the holidays in December. 

 

EDIT: I missed this earlier today but the IDF has in fact begun to push slightly more south towards the Wadi Gaza..half a day ago they took this photo in front of the Justice Palace in Gaza, but south of where they took early control from teh Anzac monument to the sea. the ANZAC monument is my map marker spot for roughly 40% of the way down the fence from the northern corner near Sderot towards the border with Eqypt...not a true half way point but close. Directly South of the Justice Palace is the University of Gaza and Al Uma University. I am very curious what the IDF finds in those two campuses, I would be shocked beyond belief if it is textbooks and lockers and auditoriums with lecterns in them and nothing else.

 

[Alflives]

34 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

The future ?

Sometimes it was hard to look my son in the eye realising the legacy that ours, and past generations are handing down to them. 

 

I have never loved another human being as much as I love my son.

Seeing the images coming out of Gaza, parents devastated by the loss of their children, words fail me.

 

This conflict has existed long before Hamas took control of Gaza. 

What is happening now will breed more people on both sides that will not accept a peaceful solution, we can already see this playing out. 

 

What about a one state solution, say Palesreal ? 

 

And no, I am not joking.

 

 

 

Clearly the current Palistinian view (young leaders) won’t accept any Israel. So a combined state might be the only way to peace. Sure would be wonderful if it could happen. But IMHAO it’s not possible (for at least 20 years) because of the Hamas brain washing of the children of Gaza. The average age there is only 18. It’s going to take a lot of time, and opportunity for those young people there to live free and fulfilled lives, for their to be an acceptance of a country they can share with the Israeli people. And we need to remember too that there are millions of Israelis who are Arab and Palistinian too. 

[Ilunga]

15 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

only some good/decent guesses. I imagine once the north of HWY 10 is secured, maybe even in the last days of securing it, the IDF will push slightly further south to the actual banks of the Wadi Gaza. Securing from the river north before the end of November. I think then, at least if it were I drawing up the plans, there is another semi-natural divide at Al-Matahen Street, another spot where the road runs from the Sea to the fence and generally would cut the middle third off of the thick base of Khan Yunis and the lot, Rafa et cetera. If they plan to put boots on the ground of every block in all the strip, it makes sense to do it in that order. Leaving the thicker southwestern end of the strip till last keeps the Rafa Gate available to the people of Gaza for supply lines, and that middle third area is far less densely built up than Gaza City or Khan Yunis, so it would go very fast, maybe 10 days? maybe less? 

The final tough slog would be the bottom third. Unsure if that is the plan or not, but if it is the intention to root out Hamas from every nook and cranny it just makes sense that this area too will need to be taken under IDF control. My own wish is that once the top end is secure, Israel floods it with aid and builds up camps very quickly to begin vetting Gazans into....and likely real open air prisons for suspected Hamas at the same time in the north of Gaza. 

Hopefully IF, and its all 'what if's' at this point...if that is the plan, hopefully the southern bit will go faster than this northern bit and all of Gaza will be under IDF control before the holidays in December. 

 

EDIT: I missed this earlier today but the IDF has in fact begun to push slightly more south towards the Wadi Gaza..half a day ago they took this photo in front of the Justice Palace in Gaza, but south of where they took early control from teh Anzac monument to the sea. the ANZAC monument is my map marker spot for roughly 40% of the way down the fence from the northern corner near Sderot towards the border with Eqypt...not a true half way point but close. 

 

The Anzac memorial.

 

While the there was a few Polish cavalry charges in WW2, one at the end of the war that was considered successful, at the battle of Shoenfeld, the Australian light horse cavalry charge at Beersheba is considered by most historians to be the last successful cavalry charge.

 

Even though they faced an enemy that had repulsed many attacks over month's the light horse managed to charge fasten than the Turks/ Ottomans could lower their artillery.

What also confused the Turks was that the Light horse used to ride their horses to the battle, dismount and fight.

This time they kept on charging. 

 

More pointless loss of young Australian men in a pointless war, that people called the war to end all wars.

[Optimist Prime]

46 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

The Anzac memorial.

 

While the there was a few Polish cavalry charges in WW2, one at the end of the war that was considered successful, at the battle of Shoenfeld, the Australian light horse cavalry charge at Beersheba is considered by most historians to be the last successful cavalry charge.

 

Even though they faced an enemy that had repulsed many attacks over month's the light horse managed to charge fasten than the Turks/ Ottomans could lower their artillery.

What also confused the Turks was that the Light horse used to ride their horses to the battle, dismount and fight.

This time they kept on charging. 

 

More pointless loss of young Australian men in a pointless war, that people called the war to end all wars.

I love that you know a bit more than me in areas... but I do know that the vanguard of that charge lept over the trenches and did in fact dismount, to clear them out, while the flanks of that charge cleared the trenches astride and quickly kept moving past, routing the enemy and chasing them for many kms, cutting them down. You are very correct that it was really the last successful cavalry charge of all time. It was one of the most successful too.

[Ilunga]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

I love that you know a bit more than me in areas... but I do know that the vanguard of that charge lept over the trenches and did in fact dismount, to clear them out, while the flanks of that charge cleared the trenches astride and quickly kept moving past, routing the enemy and chasing them for many kms, cutting them down. You are very correct that it was really the last successful cavalry charge of all time. It was one of the most successful too.

 

Yes, I should have clarified that usually they acted like mounted infantry, riding to the battle, dismounting, then charging on foot.

 

However at Beersheba they kept on charging past the artillery, jumping over the troops in the trenches before they dismounted and fought hand to hand.

The Turks and their German officers thought they would dismount before they reached Turkish positions.

[Super19]

4 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

You keep on using Hamas supplied numbers as true fact.

What are the IDF/Israeli supplied numbers? Do they have any idea how many innocents they killed? How many Hamas have they killed?

[Optimist Prime]

15 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Yes, I should have clarified that usually they acted like mounted infantry, riding to the battle, dismounting, then charging on foot.

 

However at Beersheba they kept on charging past the artillery, jumping over the troops in the trenches before they dismounted and fought hand to hand.

The Turks and their German officers thought they would dismount before they reached Turkish positions.

Decisive Victory for the region if not for British Command flubs. 3 month supply chain from England and that included orders. Often 5 or 6 months out of date.

[Ilunga]

6 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Decisive Victory for the region if not for British Command flubs. 3 month supply chain from England and that included orders. Often 5 or 6 months out of date.

 

Historically it is linked to the current conflict.

 

General Allenby went on to capture Jerusalem, the first European to do so since the crusades. 

 

Gotta wonder if the British didn't have a mandate in Palestine how things would have played out after WW2.

[RomanPer]

27 minutes ago, Super19 said:

What are the IDF/Israeli supplied numbers? Do they have any idea how many innocents they killed? How many Hamas have they killed?

Why does it always have to be tit for tat? I don’t think the number of killed Hamas matters, as long as it get as close to 100% as possible.

[Super19]

9 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

Why does it always have to be tit for tat? I don’t think the number of killed Hamas matters, as long as it get as close to 100% as possible.

Why isn't the IDF reporting the casualties, for all sides? Hamas, innocent civillians, and IDF?

Edited November 21, 2023 by Super19

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Why isn't the IDF reporting the casualties, for all sides? Hamas, innocent civillians, and IDF?

 

Would that even be possible?

[Super19]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Would that even be possible?

They can estimate how many IDF casualties there have been at least.

[RomanPer]

12 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Why isn't the IDF reporting the casualties, for all sides? Hamas, innocent civillians, and IDF?

 

IDF is reporting casualties on the IDF side. Only after the families have been notified.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Super19 said:

They can estimate how many IDF casualties there have been at least.

Why? What’s the point? It’s war. The iff is doing a job eliminating Hamas. 

[Super19]

 

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Why? What’s the point? It’s war. The iff is doing a job eliminating Hamas. 

 

1 Palestenian child dead every 10 minutes in Gaza since Oct 7 is the point.

Almost every source is quoting these numbers.

We don't even know how many Hamas have been killed from this. 1 Hamas for every child? 10? Less than 1?

[Alflives]

Just now, Super19 said:

 

 

1 Palestenian child dead every 10 minutes in Gaza since Oct 7 is the point.

Almost every source is quoting these numbers.

We don't even know how many Hamas have been killed from this. 1 Hamas for every child? 10? Less than 1?

Your opinion. IMHAO Hamas is hiding behind, women, children, patients in hospitals, and (as mentioned earlier in this thread) the press. Any innocent people killed in this war are Hamas’ fault. Why don’t they surrender? 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

 

 

1 Palestenian child dead every 10 minutes in Gaza since Oct 7 is the point.

Almost every source is quoting these numbers.

We don't even know how many Hamas have been killed from this. 1 Hamas for every child? 10? Less than 1?

 

Let's not pretend that Hamas cares.

[RomanPer]

2 minutes ago, Super19 said:

 

 

1 Palestenian child dead every 10 minutes in Gaza since Oct 7 is the point.

Almost every source is quoting these numbers.

We don't even know how many Hamas have been killed from this. 1 Hamas for every child? 10? Less than 1?

 

Every source quoting these numbers has the same source - Hamas. We’ve already been through it multiple times, but you keep on waving it in front of everyone as if something has changed.

 

in case you need help using Google - https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-announces-names-of-6-idf-soldiers-killed-in-gaza-bringing-group-op-death-toll-to-57/