Hamas attacking Israel

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

My point was the ANC was literally labelled as a Terrorist Organization by the US and much of the West.

 

And IDK, I'm not actively trying to find parallels between Hamas and Mandela. If I come across anything I'll let you know.

 

But from face value the guy in the video didn't say anything about wiping all the Jewish people out. He didn't say anything along the lines of death to the State of Israel either. He is part of the armed force of Hamas, so that does say something about him. He does have hatred. But he sounded similar to an IDF soldier to me. Opposite ends of the spectrum and not seeing eye to eye tho. There's war in the region for that very reason. 

 

I think enough blood and destruction has been shed. It's time for a ceasefire and other countries to step in to help find a diplomatic solution. Amd obviously there needs to be a miraculous shift in Hamas and Israeli govt mentality to where it's something more in the middle to resemble peace.

 

So the Hamas terrorist seemed like a nice guy to you?  And you are comparing him to an actual soldier?  

 

Sounds like you are shilling for Hamas.  Strange times we are living in...

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

So the Hamas terrorist seemed like a nice guy to you?  And you are comparing him to an actual soldier?  

 

Sounds like you are shilling for Hamas.  Strange times we are living in...

 

He was nice, he even cleaned up after chopping someone's head off. He's thoughtful that way.

[Optimist Prime]

3 hours ago, Super19 said:

My point was the ANC was literally labelled as a Terrorist Organization by the US and much of the West.

 

And IDK, I'm not actively trying to find parallels between Hamas and Mandela. If I come across anything I'll let you know.

 

But from face value the guy in the video didn't say anything about wiping all the Jewish people out. He didn't say anything along the lines of death to the State of Israel either. He is part of the armed force of Hamas, so that does say something about him. He does have hatred. But he sounded similar to an IDF soldier to me. Opposite ends of the spectrum and not seeing eye to eye tho. There's war in the region for that very reason. 

 

I think enough blood and destruction has been shed. It's time for a ceasefire and other countries to step in to help find a diplomatic solution. Amd obviously there needs to be a miraculous shift in Hamas and Israeli govt mentality to where it's something more in the middle to resemble peace.

when you equate an international terrorist organization to a fundamental regional ally there is something wrong. 

[RomanPer]

5 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

when you equate an international terrorist organization to a fundamental regional ally there is something wrong. 

 

As we see recently, especially on campuses, there's a lot wrong in our society these days. It feels like Germany is the first country to start doing something about it.

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

Yay, you found one Hamas member that didn’t say that he wants to kill all the Jews in one particular interview. Let’s now pretend that all the terrorist attacks over the years didn’t happen and remove “terrorists” from their name. Let’s also start spreading veiled messages that maybe Hamas is not that bad. And after that we will claim that we are not Hamas apologists, we are just presenting “facts”. Unfortunately, I can’t reply what I truly think about this position without being banned…

It isn't inconsequential that no Arab country has joined the Hamas war against Israel. Hezbollah has put in a token effort. Many don't realize that they are sitting in the Lebanon National Unity government. They don't appear to be willing to fight for Sunni Hamas. The Hamas terrorist attack on Oct.7th was a massive miscalculation as it has not generated much support at all. The IDF will do what they have to in Gaza and then turn the area over to some UN led admin. Whoever inherits the mess will not be allowed a military capability.  

[Optimist Prime]

4 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

It isn't inconsequential that no Arab country has joined the Hamas war against Israel. Hezbollah has put in a token effort. Many don't realize that they are sitting in the Lebanon National Unity government. They don't appear to be willing to fight for Sunni Hamas. The Hamas terrorist attack on Oct.7th was a massive miscalculation as it has not generated much support at all. The IDF will do what they have to in Gaza and then turn the area over to some UN led admin. Whoever inherits the mess will not be allowed a military capability.  

You have a point there, the elites in Iran are the shi'ite. they are happy the sunni Hamas are the bomb. 

[Optimist Prime]

6 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

As we see recently, especially on campuses, there's a lot wrong in our society these days. It feels like Germany is the first country to start doing something about it.

The further left you go, somehow it links around to terrorist fronts around the globe...how many canadian NDPers wore CHe tshirts as teens and young adults? lol

 

[RomanPer]

33 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

You have a point there, the elites in Iran are the shi'ite. they are happy the sunni Hamas are the bomb. 

 

I heard some interesting analysis yesterday in Hebrew language podcast from Dr. Mordechai Keidar. His position is that Iran was planning a much more massive attack on Israel from all the sides with huge barrage of rockets at the same time (from Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Iran) that would simply overwhelm the air defense systems of Israel. And Hamas simply jumped the gun on October 7th. The rest of the "allies" weren't ready yet. And this is one of the main reasons why Iran and Hezbollah are not getting involved - they are pissed at Hamas for jumping the gun and removing their element of surprise. To a degree, Hamas attack on October 7th prevented a much-much bigger tragedy in Israel. If you understand Hebrew, I can send you the link to that podcast.

[Taxi]

33 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

It isn't inconsequential that no Arab country has joined the Hamas war against Israel. Hezbollah has put in a token effort. Many don't realize that they are sitting in the Lebanon National Unity government. They don't appear to be willing to fight for Sunni Hamas. The Hamas terrorist attack on Oct.7th was a massive miscalculation as it has not generated much support at all. The IDF will do what they have to in Gaza and then turn the area over to some UN led admin. Whoever inherits the mess will not be allowed a military capability.  

 

Hamas is a puppet of Iran, and the Arab states, with the exception of Qatar and Syria, are largely very opposed to Iran having any kind of influence. There's not a chance Saudi Arabia goes to war for Hamas, and Saudi Arabia controls the Arab League. 

 

As for Hezbollah, they likely don't have the ability to go to war with Israel. They are likely weakened already due to their long-term involvement in Syria and the disastrous state of the Lebanese economy. Turkey is already circling at the Northern border looking for any excuse to pick at Lebanon's bones. 

 

Whoever was directing Hamas knew no one was coming to their rescue. The timing of the October 7 attack was to derail the Saudi/Israel deal. The Palestinians, once again, end up as  sacrificial pawns in a greater conflict.

[bishopshodan]

38 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

The further left you go, somehow it links around to terrorist fronts around the globe...how many canadian NDPers wore CHe tshirts as teens and young adults? lol

 

 

Was the Che shirts an NDP thing? or are you just saying that because of NDP being left?

 

Can you give me any source for the bolded?

I did a quick search for it but just kept getting results talking about rightwing US domestic terrorists. Found a left/right personality breakdown from the US JI ( kinda interesting) but that, again isn't terrorist fronts around the globe.

 

I know your a research guru, so i thought I'd ask you instead of my luddite interweb searching. 

 

I am still interested in the 'opinion' that elements have infiltrated and are funding people in some of our most trusted institutions. 

[Bob Long]

47 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

The further left you go, somehow it links around to terrorist fronts around the globe...how many canadian NDPers wore CHe tshirts as teens and young adults? lol

 

 

Politics is a horseshoe. Eventually the left and right align in the extremities.

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Was the Che shirts an NDP thing? or are you just saying that because of NDP being left?

 

Can you give me any source for the bolded?

I did a quick search for it but just kept getting results talking about rightwing US domestic terrorists. Found a left/right personality breakdown from the US JI ( kinda interesting) but that, again isn't terrorist fronts around the globe.

 

I know your a research guru, so i thought I'd ask you instead of my luddite interweb searching. 

 

I am still interested in the 'opinion' that elements have infiltrated and are funding people in some of our most trusted institutions. 

 

I tried to date a girl wearing a Che shirt in university. I wasn't hairy enough.

[RomanPer]

8 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Was the Che shirts an NDP thing? or are you just saying that because of NDP being left?

 

Can you give me any source for the bolded?

I did a quick search for it but just kept getting results talking about rightwing US domestic terrorists. Found a left/right personality breakdown from the US JI ( kinda interesting) but that, again isn't terrorist fronts around the globe.

 

I know your a research guru, so i thought I'd ask you instead of my luddite interweb searching. 

 

I am still interested in the 'opinion' that elements have infiltrated and are funding people in some of our most trusted institutions. 

 

Just google "Red Army Faction"  

[bishopshodan]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I tried to date a girl wearing a Che shirt in university. I wasn't hairy enough.

I was in Cuba about a decade a ago.

 

They still have Che images everywhere.

 

Poor country, lovely people. Very attractive too, everyone seemed healthy and intelligent.

Wonder how it would have fared without the embargo....anyway, wrong topic for the thread I suppose. 

[RomanPer]

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I tried to date a girl wearing a Che shirt in university. I wasn't hairy enough.

 

You look pretty hairy in your picture    

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, RomanPer said:

 

Just google "Red Army Faction"  

thanks.

I thought he was talking currently ( because you mentioned recently) but I get now that it might have been just a general statement from OP?

[RomanPer]

Just now, bishopshodan said:

thanks.

I thought he was talking currently ( because you mentioned recently) but I get now that it might have been just a general statement from OP?

 

I personally don't think much has changed on the radical left side of the spectrum from the world view perspective. We just don't see them to the same level as Red Army Faction used to be in the 70s. I don't necessarily think NDP is "radical left" though. While I personally vehemently disagree with almost majority of NDP policies (both federal and provincial), I view NDP mainly as idealists who haven't experienced real life issues. It's almost like a good old joke on how 20 year old democrat becomes a 40 year old republican once they make enough money to have to pay shitload of taxes  

[Super19]

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

Ok but where is the appetite for peace? A temporary ceasefire isn't the same thing.

I immediately followed the call for a ceasefire with other countries needing to step in to help with diplomatic solutions and also said a miraculous mental shift in both Hamas and Israel needs to happen to something that is more peaceful. IMO. 

[Bob Long]

48 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

You look pretty hairy in your picture    

 

in real life I've always had a hair cut you could set your watch to. Didn't work well with the ladies on the left 

 

Apparently it works well for Italians tho, who don't want a momma's boy for a husband. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Bob Long

[Bob Long]

47 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I was in Cuba about a decade a ago.

 

They still have Che images everywhere.

 

Poor country, lovely people. Very attractive too, everyone seemed healthy and intelligent.

Wonder how it would have fared without the embargo....anyway, wrong topic for the thread I suppose. 

 

me too, roughly around then, really liked it. Lots of respect for Canada there, back then at least. 

[Bob Long]

36 minutes ago, Super19 said:

I immediately followed the call for a ceasefire with other countries needing to step in to help with diplomatic solutions and also said a miraculous mental shift in both Hamas and Israel needs to happen to something that is more peaceful. IMO. 

 

they do, but I don't see how thats going to happen until Israel completes its mission. We know its not going to come willingly from the Hamas side. Shitty reality, but it is what it is. 

[Canuck Surfer]

5 hours ago, Super19 said:

I'm an apologist for Hamas because

 

If you want people to call out Bibi; this statement is completely unacceptable.

 

Their leader kills people, Palestinians, with his bare hands. If they do not accept Hamas rule! 

 

You are condemning your Palestinian people to a life of violence...

 

 

I'm all for holding Israel accountable for war crimes.  The reverse is more than true also. Gaza is run as a completely corrupt state. Hamas control juiciary, police, taxation. Take a cut on its massive black market, local businesses, tunnel tax, arms sales. Siphon UN money without appreciable programs for its people.  Life in Gaza is a completely lawless society run by henchmen. They do not get a country until hamas is gone.

 

Full stop!

[Super19]

30 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

If you want people to call out Bibi; this statement is completely unacceptable.

 

Their leader kills people, Palestinians, with his bare hands. If they do not accept Hamas rule! 

 

You are condemning your Palestinian people to a life of violence...

 

 

I'm all for holding Israel accountable for war crimes.  The reverse is more than true also. Gaza is run as a completely corrupt state. Hamas control juiciary, police, taxation. Take a cut on its massive black market, local businesses, tunnel tax, arms sales. Siphon UN money without appreciable programs for its people.  Life in Gaza is a completely lawless society run by henchmen. They do not get a country until hamas is gone.

 

Full stop!

Goodness gracious you damn near gave me a heart attack. I didn't say that. OP accused me of being one, and I told him don't put words in my mouth. You took my quote out of full context.

[Canuck Surfer]

For those arguing that Israel has been systematically wiping out Gazan Palestinians as Genocide?

 

FTR its not because people are moving to Gaza for business opportunities. In spite of media wars, this fcat below flies against the argument Israel is systematically wiping out Palestinian populations.  As much as there does remain crimes. 'Palestine' enjoys solid population growth!

 

Source; The almighty Google.

 

Spoiler

The reasons for this fact are not necessarily good?

 

A trend all across the third world versus 1st world, impoverished regions since coincidentally enough about 1967?  The combination of improving gender equality & medicine, specifically birth control! Without access to daycare, child support, equal career opportunity mean more women are at home in most if not all impoverished regions. Not generating the same wealth or contribution to society. At home making even more babies. 

 

This fact also flies in the face of Hamas as a legitimate political force.  Besides not holding elections in 16 years, slaughtering opponents. Gaza actually receives amongst the highest levels of support to combat the effects of war. From bodies like the UN, EU.  Hamas has not been credited for improving education, job opportunities, trade with their support. A good economy & education, health care systems the single most valuable tools for raising living standards. 

 

Nor building bomb shelters, considering this is support for a war torn society.  Like almost all autocratic systems; Palestine is largely run in any way possible to produce black market wealth for its ruling class. Hamas also recruits youth by force to join militia. Not police forces to reduce crime. Who become guns for hire in Yemen, nor safer streets in Gaza. Provide muscle to punish businesses that don't 'donate' to the cause, in return for being left to operate. You have to pay in to, and be part of the system?  If you want to protect your kids from such a life, send them to school.  To university domestically or largely abroad for those in power. 

 

What is left? The substantial paying jobs for youth are to dig tunnels, haul contraband including arms & be human trafficked as soldiers for hire, worse for girls. Girls, females vs male ratios, also fly against trends everywhere in the world. There are less women than men, despite men 'volunteering' to fight against Israel & in other wars. Credited, an unfortunate use of this word, to domestic violence, suicide & human trafficking. Racial minorities long since exhausted out of the system by servitude to ruling parties. The density of Palestinians to other races in Gaza is exorbitantly high! 

 

This by the way is much closer to a definition of Apartheid than that accused of Israel! 

 

The population of the West Bank and Gaza boasts several notable features. The population growth rate is among the highest in the world: 3.4 percent in the West Bank and 4.0 percent in Gaza, according to U.S. Census Bureau estimates.

 

 

[bishopshodan]

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

 

I personally don't think much has changed on the radical left side of the spectrum from the world view perspective. We just don't see them to the same level as Red Army Faction used to be in the 70s. I don't necessarily think NDP is "radical left" though. While I personally vehemently disagree with almost majority of NDP policies (both federal and provincial), I view NDP mainly as idealists who haven't experienced real life issues. It's almost like a good old joke on how 20 year old democrat becomes a 40 year old republican once they make enough money to have to pay shitload of taxes  

As I get older I am realising that they are all corrupt. Doesn't matter what political party or even system. I'm very lucky to have made a lot of money in my life thanks to my wise old man pushing me to get into real estate in my early 20's. So I can sit on my little perch and be idealistic I suppose. 

Such as, I like some of the idealistic things from tha NDP... generally I support more tax for the uber rich and dental should be a part of healthcare. 

 

Thanks for your responses.