Hamas attacking Israel

[Canuck Surfer]

15 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Goodness gracious you damn near gave me a heart attack. I didn't say that. OP accused me of being one, and I told him don't put words in my mouth. You took my quote out of full context.

 

 

I appreciate you have made some conciliatory posts. Don't want the above to be your mantra. Some acknowledging Israel?  The best thing you can do, as a Palestinian supporter; is call for ways to do two things. One; call for accountable justice against crimes by Palestinians. It cannot be a lawless society. Remove Israel's, all too indiscriminate, responsibility for stopping attacks. Two; call for ways that Palestinians to improve their society to be a better place to live. Non violently of course. 

 

Bombs will stop when the 18-30 year old able bodied youth join peacekeeping to police & secure the community against throwing rocks and shooting missiles; rather than joining gangs that do. Some will die fighting Hamas?  Saudi & UAE, the UN and West would all contribute to peacekeeping forces if this were the goal. Blockades would immediately force massive pressure to be removed; Palestine would attract trade, chances to educate youth, improve services.     

 

The vast majority of posts chosen remain apologist propaganda, stereotype crimes by Israel. 

 

 

 

@RomanPer will have been pissed at many, many posts I make accusing Israel of poor behaviour.  As an Israeli supporter, I called on them as the vastly more wealthy nation to come to the table first. Regardless? There will never be peace until Palestinians take responsibility for their own behaviour in this world!

 

 

[5forFighting]

If I am Israel, I wipe Hamas off the map but I do so with as few innocent civilian casualties as possible. This is made more difficult by Hamas using innocent civilians as human shields as well as building their command centers in the most vulnerable buildings of vulnerable civilians. 

[Optimist Prime]

2 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

I heard some interesting analysis yesterday in Hebrew language podcast from Dr. Mordechai Keidar. His position is that Iran was planning a much more massive attack on Israel from all the sides with huge barrage of rockets at the same time (from Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Iran) that would simply overwhelm the air defense systems of Israel. And Hamas simply jumped the gun on October 7th. The rest of the "allies" weren't ready yet. And this is one of the main reasons why Iran and Hezbollah are not getting involved - they are pissed at Hamas for jumping the gun and removing their element of surprise. To a degree, Hamas attack on October 7th prevented a much-much bigger tragedy in Israel. If you understand Hebrew, I can send you the link to that podcast.

Only a few words and phrases unfortunately. But it is easy to believe this, even without the podcast.  Within Hezbollah right now the loose Cannons are wasting blood and ammo in the North at the Good Fence, so it is easy to see that Iran's Theocratic regime doesn't have full control of their own tentacles. 

[Alflives]

43 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

As I get older I am realising that they are all corrupt. Doesn't matter what political party or even system. I'm very lucky to have made a lot of money in my life thanks to my wise old man pushing me to get into real estate in my early 20's. So I can sit on my little perch and be idealistic I suppose. 

Such as, I like some of the idealistic things from tha NDP... generally I support more tax for the uber rich and dental should be a part of healthcare. 

 

Thanks for your responses.

 

Not “all” are corrupt, but too many are or they are changed when with some level of power. The issue with Hamas is they won’t negotiate a lasting peace with a two state solution. They will only be satisfied with no Israel. And IMHAO No is too. These are bad people. 

[Alflives]

16 minutes ago, 5forFighting said:

If I am Israel, I wipe Hamas off the map but I do so with as few innocent civilian casualties as possible. This is made more difficult by Hamas using innocent civilians as human shields as well as building their command centers in the most vulnerable buildings of vulnerable civilians. 

Yup. IMHAO anyone who did what G he Ana’s did on October 7 and then hides behind skirts, students, and patients, is a coward. And those are sick people who cannot be cured. They must be put down. The IDF is putting down Hamas. Alf feels for those brave IDF soldiers who must do this job. It cannot be something that comes naturally to good people. 

[Taxi]

2 hours ago, Super19 said:

I immediately followed the call for a ceasefire with other countries needing to step in to help with diplomatic solutions and also said a miraculous mental shift in both Hamas and Israel needs to happen to something that is more peaceful. IMO. 

 

The problem with this is it means Israel has no response after being viciously attacked. The international mediated peace process has been a failure thus far. And I don't see how it could succeed without someone removing Hamas, which no one would do. I don't see how you get a "mental shift" from an organization like Hamas, who were born and dedicated to Israel's destruction.

 

I do agree that long lasting peace will require a mental shift from the citizens of Israel. They've largely given up on peace. Many Israelis became disillusioned with the peace process and have since been content to let hardline settlers build a buffer zone in the West Bank. This isn't constructive towards a lasting peace agreement either. 

[Alflives]

Just now, Taxi said:

 

The problem with this is it means Israel has no response after being viciously attacked. The international mediated peace process has been a failure thus far. And I don't see how it could succeed without someone removing Hamas, which no one would do. I don't see how you get a "mental shift" from an organization like Hamas, who were born and dedicated to Israel's destruction.

 

I do agree that long lasting peace will require a mental shift from the citizens of Israel. They've largely given up on peace. Many Israelis became disillusioned with the peace process and have since been content to let hardline settlers build a buffer zone in the West Bank. This isn't constructive towards a lasting peace agreement either. 

And for a ceasefire Gamas has to release their hostages from October 7 and agree to a two state solution. And they won’t do either. So No ceasefire and no peace.

Hamas needs to surrender. Then we will see peace. 

[bishopshodan]

44 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Not “all” are corrupt, but too many are or they are changed when with some level of power. The issue with Hamas is they won’t negotiate a lasting peace with a two state solution. They will only be satisfied with no Israel. And IMHAO No is too. These are bad people. 

 

I have no problem thinking Hamas is bad. They. Are. 

 

I wonder sometimes if there isn't other ways than how Isreal seems to be dealing with Hamas though. 

With all the money and technology, I hope for more consise actions by them. Again, only going by some of the reports I see, that i dont trust completely. 

I am still in shock about how the Oct 7 attack could go on for so long and do so much damage. If I was the Isreali people I would demand answers yesterday. Something just doesn't seem right about it. Must have had massive internal issues? didn't they get warned?... or are they not as proficient as they have been made out to be.

However, i dont believe that. I used to train with an ex-IDF. He sure was deadly, even told me of hand to hand techniques outside of Krav Maga designed for the Egyptian helmets a lot of his opposition apparently wore. I also had a cruise director friend. They employed former IDF to do the sweeps for the vessel when docked. These anecdotal experiences led me to believe they are some of the very best.

 

Anyway, I feel very bad for this conflict that has been going on for ....ever.

I'm not a religious man and I kinda see countries as just lines on a map.

So, I am at a loss with why 'we' do this to each other. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by bishopshodan

[RomanPer]

3 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

 

I appreciate you have made some conciliatory posts. Don't want the above to be your mantra. Some acknowledging Israel?  The best thing you can do, as a Palestinian supporter; is call for ways to do two things. One; call for accountable justice against crimes by Palestinians. It cannot be a lawless society. Remove Israel's, all too indiscriminate, responsibility for stopping attacks. Two; call for ways that Palestinians to improve their society to be a better place to live. Non violently of course. 

 

Bombs will stop when the 18-30 year old able bodied youth join peacekeeping to police & secure the community against throwing rocks and shooting missiles; rather than joining gangs that do. Some will die fighting Hamas?  Saudi & UAE, the UN and West would all contribute to peacekeeping forces if this were the goal. Blockades would immediately force massive pressure to be removed; Palestine would attract trade, chances to educate youth, improve services.     

 

The vast majority of posts chosen remain apologist propaganda, stereotype crimes by Israel. 

 

 

 

@RomanPer will have been pissed at many, many posts I make accusing Israel of poor behaviour.  As an Israeli supporter, I called on them as the vastly more wealthy nation to come to the table first. Regardless? There will never be peace until Palestinians take responsibility for their own behaviour in this world!

 

 

 

No, brother, I’m not pissed at you at all. The main reason - you are not blindly criticizing Israel for everything, no matter what. Your approach is fair to both sides. I don’t always agree with you on some of your posts, but you are not a $100 bill to always be liked . I said it all along - there are things that Israel can and should be criticized on. Hell, 50% of Israel is constantly criticizing its government until the elections switch the coalition - and then the other 50% criticize the new government. What the “critics” on my ignore list keep on ignoring is that I was always steadfast that only blind criticism of absolutely everything that Israel does, no matter what, not giving Israel any benefit of the doubt under any circumstances - that’s when anti-Israeli sentiment turns into antisemitism (or, shall I say, that’s what uncovers that truly, the antisemitism is the real driving force behind the “anti-Israeli” position). And I feel the same way not only about you and your posts but also about my brother from another mother, @Ilunga 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, RomanPer said:

 

No, brother, I’m not pissed at you at all. The main reason - you are not blindly criticizing Israel for everything, no matter what. Your approach is fair to both sides. I don’t always agree with you on some of your posts, but you are not a $100 bill to always be liked . I said it all along - there are things that Israel can and should be criticized on. Hell, 50% of Israel is constantly criticizing its government until the elections switch the coalition - and then the other 50% criticize the new government. What the “critics” on my ignore list keep on ignoring is that I was always steadfast that only blind criticism of absolutely everything that Israel does, no matter what, not giving Israel any benefit of the doubt under any circumstances - that’s when anti-Israeli sentiment turns into antisemitism (or, shall I say, that’s what uncovers that truly, the antisemitism is the real driving force behind the “anti-Israeli” position). And I feel the same way not only about you and your posts but also about my brother from another mother, @Ilunga 

If only Hamas had taught this kind of understanding of others and acceptance of differences, we might not see what’s happening now. But we all must accept Hamas is evil. They have no interest in peace. 

[Super19]

3 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

 

I appreciate you have made some conciliatory posts. Don't want the above to be your mantra. Some acknowledging Israel?  The best thing you can do, as a Palestinian supporter; is call for ways to do two things. One; call for accountable justice against crimes by Palestinians. It cannot be a lawless society. Remove Israel's, all too indiscriminate, responsibility for stopping attacks. Two; call for ways that Palestinians to improve their society to be a better place to live. Non violently of course. 

 

Bombs will stop when the 18-30 year old able bodied youth join peacekeeping to police & secure the community against throwing rocks and shooting missiles; rather than joining gangs that do. Some will die fighting Hamas?  Saudi & UAE, the UN and West would all contribute to peacekeeping forces if this were the goal. Blockades would immediately force massive pressure to be removed; Palestine would attract trade, chances to educate youth, improve services.     

 

The vast majority of posts chosen remain apologist propaganda, stereotype crimes by Israel. 

 

 

 

@RomanPer will have been pissed at many, many posts I make accusing Israel of poor behaviour.  As an Israeli supporter, I called on them as the vastly more wealthy nation to come to the table first. Regardless? There will never be peace until Palestinians take responsibility for their own behaviour in this world!

 

 

I agree and understand with so much of what you said but where we may differ the most is that I am far more critical of the Israeli govt and IDF than you are. 

[Super19]

22 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

No, brother, I’m not pissed at you at all. The main reason - you are not blindly criticizing Israel for everything, no matter what. Your approach is fair to both sides. I don’t always agree with you on some of your posts, but you are not a $100 bill to always be liked . I said it all along - there are things that Israel can and should be criticized on. Hell, 50% of Israel is constantly criticizing its government until the elections switch the coalition - and then the other 50% criticize the new government. What the “critics” on my ignore list keep on ignoring is that I was always steadfast that only blind criticism of absolutely everything that Israel does, no matter what, not giving Israel any benefit of the doubt under any circumstances - that’s when anti-Israeli sentiment turns into antisemitism (or, shall I say, that’s what uncovers that truly, the antisemitism is the real driving force behind the “anti-Israeli” position). And I feel the same way not only about you and your posts but also about my brother from another mother, @Ilunga 

You have not even accepted the fact that thousands of children have died because of Israeli bombs.  Let alone condemn it.

[RomanPer]

2 minutes ago, Super19 said:

You have not even accepted the fact that thousands of children have died because of Israeli bombs.  Let alone condemn it.

 

Was I talking to you?

[Alflives]

Just now, Super19 said:

You have not even accepted the fact that thousands of children have died because of Israeli bombs.  Let alone condemn it.

Because IMHAO they have not. Snd those who have are the fault of Hsmas.

Seriously friend, what would happen if the cowards that are Hama actually surrendered? They’re getting their assets kicked, the people they are supposed to be representing are suffering. Why don’t they lay down their arms?

IMHAO any who are on the side of Hamas need to honestly answer these two questions before posting here any more. 
 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, RomanPer said:

 

Was I talking to you?

This thread needs your views @RomanPer. Please ignore the posts from the ignorant. Okay, that means ignore old Alf’s too! 

[Optimist Prime]

3 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

 

I have no problem thinking Hamas is bad. They. Are. 

 

I wonder sometimes if there isn't other ways than how Isreal seems to be dealing with Hamas though. 

With all the money and technology, I hope for more consise actions by them. Again, only going by some of the reports I see, that i dont trust completely. 

I am still in shock about how the Oct 7 attack could go on for so long and do so much damage. If I was the Isreali people I would demand answers yesterday. Something just doesn't seem right about it.

Your honor, did you see how short Israel's skirt was? Would any nation seeking a polite casual time wear such a short skirt out after supper? I say No, never, She wanted it your honour. ~how the quoted post sounds to me. 

 

Edit for a more full throated response: THe very thing you have been demanding for 280 pages now is that Israel think peace, act peace and promote peace...the minute they stopped studying every Palestinian as though they were terrorists, and leaned towards peace...basically letting their guard down: that is the moment Hamas took to inflict the harshest murderous onslaught of jews I think in my lifetime. 

 

You can't negotiate with a 'side' that wants you dead...what would you meet in the middle on? Just a little off my leg please?
Hamas has to GO, and then peace can be enforced until it takes root. Hamas has done irreparable harm to the Palestinian Cause not only in its entire existence, but definitively on Oct 7th 2023. I believe there will be over 30,000 dead Gazans by the time this bad chapter is over and the fault lays directly on Hamas and no, not the lady with the short skirt that fateful day.

[Super19]

2 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Was I talking to you?

We've talked directly about it before but you always dissappear when it's your chance to condemn the Israeli bombs that have killed children. In just 40 days, Israeli bombs have managed to kill more children from every armed conflict in the world since 2019, combined.

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

We've talked directly about it before but you always disappear when it's your chance to condemn the Israeli bombs that have killed children. In just 40 days, Israeli bombs have managed to kill more children from every armed conflict in the world since 2019, combined.

now take it to the logical conclusion point: because the government caring for those kids did what..on oct 7th? (big hints, you can't get this wrong now...big finish, go for it... The Gazans in harms way are there because of _____. you can do it, fill in the blank.

[Super19]

9 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Your honor, did you see how short Israel's skirt was? Would any nation seeking a polite casual time wear such a short skirt out after supper? I say No, never, She wanted it your honour. ~how the quoted post sounds to me. 

 

Edit for a more full throated response: THe very thing you have been demanding for 280 pages now is that Israel think peace, act peace and promote peace...the minute they stopped studying every Palestinian as though they were terrorists, and leaned towards peace...basically letting their guard down: that is the moment Hamas took to inflict the harshest murderous onslaught of jews I think in my lifetime. 

 

You can't negotiate with a 'side' that wants you dead...what would you meet in the middle on? Just a little off my leg please?
Hamas has to GO, and then peace can be enforced until it takes root. Hamas has done irreparable harm to the Palestinian Cause not only in its entire existence, but definitively on Oct 7th 2023. I believe there will be over 30,000 dead Gazans by the time this bad chapter is over and the fault lays directly on Hamas and no, not the lady with the short skirt that fateful day.

How do propose Hamas will go? Do you not see the vicious cycle in which it operates? Like Bassem Youseff said, Israel is the best recruiter for Hamas.

[RomanPer]

3 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

 

I have no problem thinking Hamas is bad. They. Are. 

 

I wonder sometimes if there isn't other ways than how Isreal seems to be dealing with Hamas though. 

With all the money and technology, I hope for more consise actions by them. Again, only going by some of the reports I see, that i dont trust completely. 

I am still in shock about how the Oct 7 attack could go on for so long and do so much damage. If I was the Isreali people I would demand answers yesterday. Something just doesn't seem right about it. Must have had massive internal issues? didn't they get warned?... or are they not as proficient as they have been made out to be.

However, i dont believe that. I used to train with an ex-IDF. He sure was deadly, even told me of hand to hand techniques outside of Krav Maga designed for the Egyptian helmets a lot of his opposition apparently wore. I also had a cruise director friend. They employed former IDF to do the sweeps for the vessel when docked. These anecdotal experiences led me to believe they are some of the very best.

 

Anyway, I feel very bad for this conflict that has been going on for ....ever.

I'm not a religious man and I kinda see countries as just lines on a map.

So, I am at a loss with why 'we' do this to each other. 

 

Oh, believe me, Israelis will be demanding answers. Just after the war is won. At the moment the country is mainly galvanized against the common enemy. The latest story from Israel - Israeli officer is being now prosecuted for leaving his position in a training centre to join his buddies in Givati brigade in Gaza, even though he was explicitly ordered not to. But he was one of the first responders on October 7th and saw first hand the carnage, so he couldn’t stay behind.

 

There are probably multiple reasons for intelligence failures. The early signs are pointing to a lot of mid to high level officers ignored signals from the lower levels, using very typical Israeli attitude “Al tid’ag, hakol yih’ye beseder” (Don’t worry, everything will be fine). We’ll see what the official investigation will reveal. The commission will not be political appointment, so it won’t be motivated by coalition members.

[Super19]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

now take it to the logical conclusion point: because the government caring for those kids did what..on oct 7th? (big hints, you can't get this wrong now...big finish, go for it... The Gazans in harms way are there because of _____. you can do it, fill in the blank.

Hamas.

 

You may not have read the posts where I said Hamas brought this Israeli response to Palestenains in Gaza (which i said on numerous occasions) but ultimately, it's mostly Israeli bombs that have killed them and caused the destruction.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Super19 said:

We've talked directly about it before but you always dissappear when it's your chance to condemn the Israeli bombs that have killed children. In just 40 days, Israeli bombs have managed to kill more children from every armed conflict in the world since 2019, combined.

Oh come on. What did Gamas go on October 7? Did they or did they not parade the dead (headless) body of a young Jewish girl through the streets while their sick followers cheered? 
Hamas must be eliminated, their beliefs of evil must be destroyed. IMHAO it’s got to be. And I honestly can’t see how anyone here could see otherwise. Unless, of course … 

zmy God we are spoiled living here. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

Hamas.

 

You may not have read the posts where I said Hamas brought this Israeli response to Palestenains in Gaza (which i said on numerous occasions) but ultimately, it's mostly Israeli bombs that have killed them and caused the destruction.

You do then accept there is no current war without Hamas actions October 7, right? 

[Super19]

Just now, Alflives said:

Oh come on. What did Gamas go on October 7? Did they or did they not parade the dead (headless) body of a young Jewish girl through the streets while their sick followers cheered? 
Hamas must be eliminated, their beliefs of evil must be destroyed. IMHAO it’s got to be. And I honestly can’t see how anyone here could see otherwise. Unless, of course … 

zmy God we are spoiled living here. 

Alfy how many times will you force me to condemn the Hamas atrocities. I do. I condemn the Israeli ones too.

 

Would you like to see some of the many videos of IDF atrocities I've seen that any good person would condemn? I'm not sure if you think the IDF have not committed many atrocities themselves.

[4petesake]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

And for a ceasefire Gamas has to release their hostages from October 7 and agree to a two state solution. And they won’t do either. So No ceasefire and no peace.

Hamas needs to surrender. Then we will see peace. 

 

lsraeli Cabinet approves ceasefire that includes the release of some 50 hostages.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/s/dqr1WNZjJe