Hamas attacking Israel

[Ilunga]

10 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I've read enough of this thread to think what I thought before Oct 7.

 

There will never be peace in the ME. I am so glad I did not breed. Nobody really cares about each other. Tribal, religious, and greedy. If there is a hell, it's soon to be packed. 

 

WW3 will happen. I have no faith in the human race not to destroy itself. I am happy that even if it is tomorrow, I've lived a good life and welcome the next part.

 

Now, with those nice words I bid this thread adieu.

 

Go Nucks.

 

Some of us do care about others. 

Not just in words but actions.

Volunteer, sponsor kids, kids need our help, you would make a great mentor.

 

I was like you, complaining about the stupidity and greed in the world, as was pointed out to me, if good people like you don't have kids and raise them to be kind, caring and compassionate people like you are, then who is going to do this ?

 

I was mocked and ridiculed for suggesting WW3 was possible. 

 

We make our own reality, world we live in. 

It's up to us to make our world a better place for others.

[Alflives]

3 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Holy shit! Little old ladies, a boy of 8 (?) and a couple people who are clearly Asian. Why is Sam hell did Hamas take these people? I’ve seen photos of toddlers who were taken. I wonder if that’s true? I also wonder if, within Hamas, there are fighters who think there some things others of their group do that are disturbing? They can’t all be cowards without morals, right? 

[Optimist Prime]

53 minutes ago, Gurn said:

So the Israeli's are the worst of humanity for believing it is ok to kill for their cause?

And Hams is the worst of humanity for believing it is ok to kill for their cause?

 

We might finally be getting somewhere.

Or not.

You don't believe in the Right of a nation to self defence? I do. 

hamas attacked the nation of Israel. it is in the title of the thread.

[Odd.]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Holy shit! Little old ladies, a boy of 8 (?) and a couple people who are clearly Asian. Why is Sam hell did Hamas take these people? I’ve seen photos of toddlers who were taken. I wonder if that’s true? I also wonder if, within Hamas, there are fighters who think there some things others of their group do that are disturbing? They can’t all be cowards without morals, right? 

Israel has Palestinian kids and toddlers locked up too.

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Odd. said:

Israel has Palestinian kids and toddlers locked up too.

I wasn't aware of toddlers, but yeah the underage teens tossing molotov cocktails and slingling rocks at Israelis have been arrested and held before and currently, some of them were released today in accordance with the truce terms.

[Canuck Surfer]

5 hours ago, Odd. said:

Israel has Palestinian kids and toddlers locked up too.

 

If you believe that Gaza is the worlds largest jail?  Yes.

 

If you believe Israel withdrew in 2006; no. This jail argument is farcical.  I did hear a head of Hamas claim they (Hamas) had right to abduct children & elderly, pregnant women. Shoot them, no different.  Due to point B below; Israel bombing and controlling Gaza they are entitled to revenge. Of course I heard another Hamas senior official suggest Oct 7 was actually a false flag, Israel attacking it's own to set up the media battle entitling them to full blown invasion?   

 

Why capture women & children.  Israel has released as many as 1000 jailed Palestinians, most with serious crimes.  For as little as 1 captured Israeli soldier.  Including senior Hamas militants. Israel has caved on hostages; it was the second most important goal of Oct 7.

 

I am developing quite a different opinion of the West Bank.  See 2knd reply OP...

 

3 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

I wasn't aware of toddlers, but yeah the underage teens tossing molotov cocktails and slingling rocks at Israelis have been arrested and held before and currently, some of them were released today in accordance with the truce terms.

 

The counter is that when Israel bombs an apartment building that was just launching clandestine missiles from its roof? There is plenty of collateral damage. Including children, nearly half the deaths. Yet NO; Israel has not been as cold blooded. Has not intentionally targetted babies & elderly as Hamas has done. They are more powerful. Indignant to said collateral damage. Three and four times as many Palestinians are still dying. Not a goal of Israel, but the primary goal of Hamas in Oct 7 & Israel got sulked in; Global sympathy for their plight & outrage of punishment Israel is serving. 

 

9 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

 

As for softening borders...Assad in Syria will need to be removed and Democratic Syrian Forces take charge and instigate elections. Syria likely won't survive this process intact. Kurdistan maybe in the future for the Kurdish people, Turkey will likely annex a 30km strip across the north and down the coast. The Golan is never again going to be Syrian, that much is obvious. The Lebanese Gov. at least wants peace with Israel, Hezbollah within Lebanon, not so much. Eventually the last domino will need to fall, Iran. I am not sure if that will be done before they reach the goal of being armed with a nuke or after, or when that happens maybe that is the moment, but I know that moment will come in the next 3, 5, 10 or 15 years. Note that reaching these conclusions or stating realities isn't cheering for them, it is just an analysis of the situation. I would cheer for peace and prosperity for all. For that to happen: all need to recognize the nations that the bulk of the UN recognizes. And then stop attacking them. 

As for soft borders: I would call the peacetime border with Jordan soft and the peace time border with Egypt soft. Lebanon, Syria: that will only come with the end of the current regime in Iran. 

 

I mentioned the West Bank being a very different beast to Gaza?

 

Israel has negotiated, as recently as 2006 offering all Gaza, more notable specific point to this point; most of the West bank back to Palestinians. Including the Golan Heights & surrounding mountainous regions. As a two state solution.  Its a massive risk. Particularly the Golan Heights.  It's just too strategic for Israel to release outright as they did Gaza. 

 

It would be virtually impossible for Israel to withstand a sustained attack from a competent world class military force from these heights. If a such a force was part of a war mongering sovereign nation. Holding all the heights overlooking Jerusalem, the coastal plain & Tel Aviv. Most of Israel's water, 80% of its population, industry & food source are below those heights. Its against the law, I don't see Syria or Palestine being returned military control over these areas. 

 

Considering the historical attacks which have been launched from these area's?  Sometimes 4 and 5 nations at a time against Israel; in spite of laws of sovereignty I understand completely the need for a security zone. Military free, patrolled, reinforced & policed.  

 

What I don't understand is settlements? Profiting, continued abuse, continued re-settlement.  RW, it seems, the faction is not as important as their view, Jewish hardliners feel they won wars in 1967, and since.  Have a right to continue to dispossess Palestinians. Govt's win elections on minority groups like these being a factor in coalitions. To look left, when it's own militant crews head right, often under IDF guard. Ransacking, beating, oppressing rights and ability of inhabitants to live a reasonable life. Being heavy handed with protestors. Which can be reserved for actual terrorists.  And they are there! How to offer religious and other freedoms, the right to work, travel while occupying the West Bank will remain an issue.

 

A highly legitimate Human Rights concern!

 

I don't see Israel budging on it even medium term. It would require peace, and alliance with Arabic partners, the West including UN to do the peacekeeping & policing. To keep their bases, while relinquishing administrative control. Something that could only let up, like with Germany or Japan, after a generation or more of peace.

 

I have my own sense of idealistic concepts a multi-cultural West Bank could and should look like. I will save for another day? Israel has to quit shooting live ammo at kids with rocks. Give up settlements. 

 

[RomanPer]

16 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

If you believe that Gaza is the worlds largest jail?  Yes.

 

If you believe Israel withdrew in 2006; no. This jail argument is farcical.  I did hear a head of Hamas claim they (Hamas) had right to abduct children & elderly, pregnant women. Shoot them, no different.  Due to point B below; Israel bombing and controlling Gaza they are entitled to revenge. Of course I heard another Hamas senior official suggest Oct 7 was actually a false flag, Israel attacking it's own to set up the media battle entitling them to full blown invasion?   

 

Why capture women & children.  Israel has released as many as 1000 jailed Palestinians, most with serious crimes.  For as little as 1 captured Israeli soldier.  Including senior Hamas militants. Israel has caved on hostages; it was the second most important goal of Oct 7.

 

I am developing quite a different opinion of the West Bank.  See 2knd reply OP...

 

 

The counter is that when Israel bombs an apartment building that was just launching clandestine missiles from its roof? There is plenty of collateral damage. Including children, nearly half the deaths. Yet NO; Israel has not been as cold blooded. Has not intentionally targetted babies & elderly as Hamas has done. They are more powerful. Indignant to said collateral damage. Three and four times as many Palestinians are still dying. Not a goal of Israel, but the primary goal of Hamas in Oct 7 & Israel got sulked in; Global sympathy for their plight & outrage of punishment Israel is serving. 

 

 

I mentioned the West Bank being a very different beast to Gaza?

 

Israel has negotiated, as recently as 2006 offering all Gaza, more notable specific point to this point; most of the West bank back to Palestinians. Including the Golan Heights & surrounding mountainous regions. As a two state solution.  Its a massive risk. Particularly the Golan Heights.  It's just too strategic for Israel to release outright as they did Gaza. 

 

It would be virtually impossible for Israel to withstand a sustained attack from a competent world class military force from these heights. If a such a force was part of a war mongering sovereign nation. Holding all the heights overlooking Jerusalem, the coastal plain & Tel Aviv. Most of Israel's water, 80% of its population, industry & food source are below those heights. Its against the law, I don't see Syria or Palestine being returned military control over these areas. 

 

Considering the historical attacks which have been launched from these area's?  Sometimes 4 and 5 nations at a time against Israel; in spite of laws of sovereignty I understand completely the need for a security zone. Military free, patrolled, reinforced & policed.  

 

What I don't understand is settlements? Profiting, continued abuse, continued re-settlement.  RW, it seems, the faction is not as important as their view, Jewish hardliners feel they won wars in 1967, and since.  Have a right to continue to dispossess Palestinians. Govt's win elections on minority groups like these being a factor in coalitions. To look left, when it's own militant crews head right, often under IDF guard. Ransacking, beating, oppressing rights and ability of inhabitants to live a reasonable life. Being heavy handed with protestors. Which can be reserved for actual terrorists.  And they are there! How to offer religious and other freedoms, the right to work, travel while occupying the West Bank will remain an issue.

 

A highly legitimate Human Rights concern!

 

I don't see Israel budging on it even medium term. It would require peace, and alliance with Arabic partners, the West including UN to do the peacekeeping & policing. To keep their bases, while relinquishing administrative control. Something that could only let up, like with Germany or Japan, after a generation or more of peace.

 

I have my own sense of idealistic concepts a multi-cultural West Bank could and should look like. I will save for another day? Israel has to quit shooting live ammo at kids with rocks. Give up settlements. 

 

 

Golan Heights will never be given away, precisely because of what you said - too big of tactical advantage in any war.

[Canuck Surfer]

12 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

You are repeatedly refusing to actually answer the question, "What should they do about the people throwing rocks and molotov cocktails at them?" Do you actually have an answer?

 

Protestors should be left alone. Sectioned off, but I believe in the right to protest.

 

Violent protestor's, can & should be arrested. The same should be true of Israeli abusers BTW. Penalties higher for Molotov Cocktails, or Jihad actions, than a rock slung at a tank. Current outlines by the IDF that live rounds can be used for rock throwers is terrible, heavy handed. Indignant! Arrested they should be nonetheless. Many of the Palestinians released today were in the 1st and 2knd category.  Two of the women, were in fact teeneagers, 15 & 16 when arrested.  Part of the 'Knife Intifada!'  Literally, they crossed security zones, softer at the time, one tried, and one did stab , try to kill an Israeli soldier. These women were in jail 8 years, most periods vastly shorter. This is not terribly different than penalties in Canada. I hope this is the outline of all released?

 

In the past much more violent terrorists were released in exchanges. Those caught smuggling missiles, clearing territory & harboring / supplying those taking part in attacks. Bombing tourist busses full of civilians. Captured taking part in military assault operations. I truly hope no such actual terrorists are released.  

 

Having released actual terrorists in past history is why taking HOSTAGES was such a significant goal Oct 7.

 

   

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Elias Pettersson]

13 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

 

Looks like a great photo op for Hamas.  I love the one terrorist who is carrying the old lady to the van.  That one is a beauty...

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

 

not really a surprise, is it?

[Yoshiyoshi]

17 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

not really a surprise, is it?

nope, Hamas and people like them only view negotiation as weakness, and any agreements arent worth the material they are printed on. They will keep pushing for more and threaten to break the already agreed upon deal the moment they think they can get more out of it. Im half surprised they didnt break the agreement before any were released, probably because they wanted to get rid of the more problematic hostages to keep healthy. Well, some of them at least.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Yoshiyoshi

[Optimist Prime]

19 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

not really a surprise, is it?

Apparently they are mad Israel is searching the aid trucks for weapons. LOL. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

[bishopshodan]

16 hours ago, Ilunga said:

Volunteer, sponsor kids, kids need our help, you would make a great mentor.

Thanks I missed this post.

 

I am, at 49 and fingers crossed, going into law enforcement. Corrections Officer. I dont need this job. My motivation for doing this is that I want to help the worst of us. In fact my wife and I have simlar careers in that regard as she works for the MCFD. We want to do our small part to help out the people society has forgetten about or are trodden down. Her with children and families, me with the adults that have lost their way.  One of my sisters is a psychologist and spent some time working in the prison I will be starting at. They have a great rehab reputation. I want to get into the departments that help with counseling programs and maybe skills training. My buddy also curently works there, hes ex-US military, toughest guy I know these days and also the sweetest buddhist ( well, he studies lots of religions but his wife is Buddist from Thailand, so I call him that too as she has such an influence). Any way, I am excited to be working with him. 

 

So, once again thank you for your kind words.

Rest assured I am walking the walk. I am making the world a better place.

 

 But even if I was not a bit old at 49, I would still not breed.

 

Humans wont make it. Like our friend Brian Cox believes....humans will probably wipe themselves out. "It could be almost a law of nature that when an intelligent species begins to learn and therefore acquire power, that they deploy the power in a way that just wipes them out, and maybe civilisations only have a lifetime of a thousand years, or two thousand years, or ten thousand years."

 

This thread, as I have mentioned, does nothing but fortify my belief that 'we' are f*cked.

 

Go Nucks.

[Super19]

34 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Apparently they are mad Israel is searching the aid trucks for weapons. LOL. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

"Hamas has decided to delay the release of the second batch of Israeli hostages until Israel complies with all the terms of the swap agreement.

1- two Palestinians were killed in Gaza, others injured when Israeli soldiers fired live ammunition at them. One of them was seen in a video bleeding on the floor, people couldn’t reach him to rescue him because of snipers’ fire targeting anyone approaching him

2- agreement said that Palestinian women and teens would be selected for release based on how long they had been in jail, something Isreal did not do yesterday 

3- aid trucks were prevented from reaching areas in northern Gaza

4- the no-fly zone was breached by Israel

5- Israel took tough measures to restrain the gathering of Palestinians receiving their loved-ones 

6- Israel did not treat the liberated Palestinians well before releasing them 

On the other hand, Hamas and other Palestinian factions complied with all terms agreed upon"

 

 

[Bob Long]

16 minutes ago, Super19 said:

"Hamas has decided to delay the release of the second batch of Israeli hostages until Israel complies with all the terms of the swap agreement.

1- two Palestinians were killed in Gaza, others injured when Israeli soldiers fired live ammunition at them. One of them was seen in a video bleeding on the floor, people couldn’t reach him to rescue him because of snipers’ fire targeting anyone approaching him

2- agreement said that Palestinian women and teens would be selected for release based on how long they had been in jail, something Isreal did not do yesterday 

3- aid trucks were prevented from reaching areas in northern Gaza

4- the no-fly zone was breached by Israel

5- Israel took tough measures to restrain the gathering of Palestinians receiving their loved-ones 

6- Israel did not treat the liberated Palestinians well before releasing them 

On the other hand, Hamas and other Palestinian factions complied with all terms agreed upon"

 

 

 

Why would we believe anything Hamas or it's mouthpieces have to say?

[Satchmo]

1) It's in a tweet with a blue checkmark for one. 

2) It contains a numbered list which in itself gives it authority.  Numbers don't lie.

3) It is written by someone who 'won’t watch a single movie nor listen to a piece of music nor watch a show nor read a book by any of you. I will tell my children about you.'

4) It got all the way to 6 and I can only make it to 4 so it clearly has me beat and I best believe it.   

[Canuck Surfer]

Palestinian view...

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, Super19 said:

"Hamas has decided to delay the release of the second batch of Israeli hostages until Israel complies with all the terms of the swap agreement.

1- two Palestinians were killed in Gaza, others injured when Israeli soldiers fired live ammunition at them. One of them was seen in a video bleeding on the floor, people couldn’t reach him to rescue him because of snipers’ fire targeting anyone approaching him

2- agreement said that Palestinian women and teens would be selected for release based on how long they had been in jail, something Isreal did not do yesterday 

3- aid trucks were prevented from reaching areas in northern Gaza

4- the no-fly zone was breached by Israel

5- Israel took tough measures to restrain the gathering of Palestinians receiving their loved-ones 

6- Israel did not treat the liberated Palestinians well before releasing them 

On the other hand, Hamas and other Palestinian factions complied with all terms agreed upon"

 

 

 

We will not bow, until we enter every home. There is no religion but ours.  Paraphrased, actually more politely less emphatically, by myself.

 

 

I could have added more tongue in cheek;

We are the entitled, therefore we are oppressed because you do not bow?  

 

Disclaimer; there is plenty of oppression. Which I recognize & call for means of justice, resolution. This mindset is absolutely fundamental to the issues. Particularly when there are significant militancy & violence behind many who recite it.  

 

God fearing?  Who'da thunk?

 

#Truth

[Super19]

7 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

They've been released now thankfully.

 

[Taxi]

16 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

Golan Heights will never be given away, precisely because of what you said - too big of tactical advantage in any war.

It was also never part of the West Bank. It was formerly part of Syria. I also don't see Israel giving it back to Syria anytime soon. It's basically just a launch pad for attacks into Israel.

[RomanPer]

A little compilation of the crimes of the Palestinians that were released by Israel in the first wave…

 

 

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

A little compilation of the crimes of the Palestinians that were released by Israel in the first wave…

 

 

 

What in the heck is wrong with those people doing that stuff? IMHAO that’s very dick behaviour. It’s people who have no empathy that do these terrible things. No death penalty in Israel? 

[RomanPer]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What in the heck is wrong with those people doing that stuff? IMHAO that’s very dick behaviour. It’s people who have no empathy that do these terrible things. No death penalty in Israel? 

Technically, there’s death penalty in Israel but it was used twice. In 1948 Israeli Meir Tobianski was executed for treason, which later was proved to be incorrect. Second execution was in 1962 - Adolf Eichmann was convicted on crimes against humanity charge. After that Israel didn’t have a single execution. However, there’s some talk that if any of Hamas Oct 7 terrorists are captured, that might change.