Hamas attacking Israel

[Super19]

41 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

What is the issue here? You said you couldn't see the videos, I told you what they were and you got hostile. 

 

Wow. Sorry bub, I assumed you were being truthful. I won't make that mistake again.

Do you condemn that Palestenian boy getting murdered by an Israeli thug?

 

Did the boy step somewhere he wasn't supposed to? Did he throw a rock at the nice Israeli soldiers? Was the kid a Hamas?

 

Your silence on that is what annoyed me, yet you reacted to @RomanPervideos, as if one suspicious incident makes the plethora of real and true evil Israel crimes against humanity as being okay.

 

Kid gets shot in cold blood on the street. But everyone is up in arms over a kid that may or may not have needed actual treatment.

 

[RomanPer]

11 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Do you condemn that Palestenian boy getting murdered by an Israeli thug?

 

Did the boy step somewhere he wasn't supposed to? Did he throw a rock at the nice Israeli soldiers? Was the kid a Hamas?

 

Your silence on that is what annoyed me, yet you reacted to @RomanPervideos, as if one suspicious incident makes the plethora of real and true evil Israel crimes against humanity as being okay.

 

Kid gets shot in cold blood on the street. But everyone is up in arms over a kid that may or may not have needed actual treatment.

 

 

You are clearly missing the causality logic here. I'm presenting you with video evidence of Hamas making up fake propaganda on the fly and all I hear back is a bunch of unrelated nonsense that completely ignores the main subject of my post. You are trying to divert and take the discussion in the unrelated direction. The logic is simple - Hamas is caught in producing fake propaganda narrative, which begs the question - why would you believe anything they say? How do you know that Palestinian boy was indeed murdered? If he was, how do you know it was by IDF? If it was by IDF, how do you know he wasn't forced to be in a place of an attach on purpose by Hamas? I can go on an on, I have computer science degree and logical causality was something I'm actually have very good background in. Have you heard an age-old story about "crying wolf"? And trying to divert my direct question will not work. I'll keep bringing you back to the original one.

[Super19]

@RomanPer @Optimist Prime

There is an x-ray.

[King Heffy]

4 minutes ago, Super19 said:

@RomanPer @Optimist Prime

There is an x-ray.

Because Hamas beat him up after he was released.

[RomanPer]

7 minutes ago, Super19 said:

@RomanPer @Optimist Prime

There is an x-ray.

 

Cool story, bro.

[Super19]

17 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

You are clearly missing the causality logic here. I'm presenting you with video evidence of Hamas making up fake propaganda on the fly and all I hear back is a bunch of unrelated nonsense that completely ignores the main subject of my post. You are trying to divert and take the discussion in the unrelated direction. The logic is simple - Hamas is caught in producing fake propaganda narrative, which begs the question - why would you believe anything they say? How do you know that Palestinian boy was indeed murdered? If he was, how do you know it was by IDF? If it was by IDF, how do you know he wasn't forced to be in a place of an attach on purpose by Hamas? I can go on an on, I have computer science degree and logical causality was something I'm actually have very good background in. Have you heard an age-old story about "crying wolf"? And trying to divert my direct question will not work. I'll keep bringing you back to the original one.

If I can find for you 1 piece of Israeli propaganda, would you then question anything Israel has to say as well? It would follow your same logic if you did.

[RomanPer]

3 minutes ago, Super19 said:

If I can find for you 1 piece of Israeli propaganda, would you then question anything Israel has to say as well? It would follow your same logic if you did.

 

Let's stay on this particular subject. You are diverting.

[Optimist Prime]

I am just not interested in fighting on a hockey forum over other people's social media posts, almost all of it is so far stretched it is absolutely pointless to bring it here. bye till next time I am bored enough to wander back in here.

 

If anyone feels angry for reading anything here maybe it is time to take a break. General advice for all.

[Super19]

Nice demo work from the Israeli army. Probably gonna build a nice resort there. Probably gonna be haunted.

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

Kid gets shot in cold blood on the street.

Kids dying is horrific!

[Canuck Surfer]

50 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Because Hamas beat him up after he was released.

 

As you know, I am not for Hamas.  At all!

 

I'd be shocked if there wasn't incidents.  I have not gone back two / four pages either.  I don't know if he was part of a riot mob, or just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Police injure people in riot situations all over the world. This is doubled / quintupled exponentially because its a war zone. Hard not to expect some would happen. Would just prefer if there was less collateral damage.  

 

Finding opportunities for respect will be key in ending conflict.

[RomanPer]

28 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Nice demo work from the Israeli army. Probably gonna build a nice resort there. Probably gonna be haunted.

 

Wait, I thought it was an open air prison before the war. That looks like a pretty nice prison to me.

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

Do you condemn that Palestenian boy getting murdered by an Israeli thug?

 

Did the boy step somewhere he wasn't supposed to? Did he throw a rock at the nice Israeli soldiers? Was the kid a Hamas?

 

Your silence on that is what annoyed me, yet you reacted to @RomanPervideos, as if one suspicious incident makes the plethora of real and true evil Israel crimes against humanity as being okay.

 

Kid gets shot in cold blood on the street. But everyone is up in arms over a kid that may or may not have needed actual treatment.

 

In a Thread such as this IMHAO it’s important to leave our egos at the door. Clearly (no ego involved) Hamas is evil, they promote ugly propaganda, and must be completely eliminated. No ego. Just IMHAO what must be done. 

[Alflives]

42 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Nice demo work from the Israeli army. Probably gonna build a nice resort there. Probably gonna be haunted.

You do realize nothing we post here has any impact on the IDFs eliminating Hamas and how that will free the people of Gaza, right? 

[Ilunga]

2 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

An IDF veteran; Jewish scholar.

 

Views conforms to my sense of reality & ideology. @Ilunga ?

 

 

 

He sums it up accurately IMO.

 

I don't have any emotional energy left for this conflict. 

There seems to be no end to the bullshit in my and my closest friends personal lives, our kids, it's getting hard to stay positive.

I am only replying to this post because I have a lot of respect for you.

 

As I have stated, my thoughts are with the victims, both Palestinian and Israeli. 

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

just an FYI, have a good night.

19 hours ago

According to this report by @Nadav_Eyal Israeli intelligence latest estimate is that Israel killed around 5300 Hamas militants

[Yoshiyoshi]

4 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

just an FYI, have a good night.

19 hours ago

According to this report by @Nadav_Eyal Israeli intelligence latest estimate is that Israel killed around 5300 Hamas militants

Interesting. If true then more than a third of the casualties in Gaza were Hamas members. If what i remember from earlier in the thread is true and the average civilian to combatant death ratio in war is 10:1 then Israel is doing a lot better at unnecessary casualties than most conflicts.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Yoshiyoshi

[Canuck Surfer]

16 hours ago, RomanPer said:

Let’s talk about “truthful” information from Hamas-controlled sources. The first video is Palestinian kid being released from Israeli prison. The second video is mere hours later, staged by Hamas. Sure, let’s believe everything else coming out of Hamas…

 

 

 

 

He looks more like Elvis than a Mohammad?  

 

I guess he can sing & tapdance when audition. Who am i to question authenticity or talent...     

[Canuck Surfer]

2 hours ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

average civilian to combatant death ratio in war is 10:1

 

Just curious on this.  Can anyone elaborate as a discussion point? 

 

[Optimist Prime]

4 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Just curious on this.  Can anyone elaborate as a discussion point? 

 

Ninety Per Cent of War-Time Casualties Are Civilians, Speakers Stress, Pressing Security Council to Fulfil Responsibility, Protect Innocent People in Conflicts

With civilians accounting for nearly 90 per cent of war-time casualties and humanitarians threatened with arrest for providing aid to “the enemy”, the Security Council simply must do more to ensure the protection of innocent people caught amid the conflicts raging around the world, experts from the field told the 15-nation organ today, as over 70 delegates denounced its inaction and explored ways to stanch the suffering during the all-day debate.

 

https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm

[Yoshiyoshi]

8 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Just curious on this.  Can anyone elaborate as a discussion point? 

 

I believe it was a post by RomanPer that contained a link to how the Israeli Defense Force chooses targets and the process they have to go through to authorize a strike. The poster above me also linked an article related to it.

[Bob Long]

This thread has turned into beating back Hamas talking points a little too much, imo.

 

The one thing I'm very happy about though is this doesn't look like its going to be the wider war Iran and Putin hoped for. 

[Super19]

1 hour ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

I believe it was a post by RomanPer that contained a link to how the Israeli Defense Force chooses targets and the process they have to go through to authorize a strike. The poster above me also linked an article related to it.

"

WOW, this might be THE most important piece of journalism on the war on Gaza since it began, by Israeli newspaper @972mag :
972mag.com/mass-assassina…

Essentially they confirm, with unimpeachable sourcing, that the killing of civilians was all calculated and intentional.

Their investigation is "based on conversations with seven current and former members of Israel’s intelligence community — including military intelligence and air force personnel who were involved in Israeli operations in the besieged Strip — in addition to Palestinian testimonies, data, and documentation from the Gaza Strip, and official statements by the IDF Spokesperson and other Israeli state institutions."

What the investigation reveals is that "the Israeli army has files on the vast majority of potential targets in Gaza — including homes — which stipulate the number of civilians who are likely to be killed in an attack on a particular target. This number is calculated and known in advance to the army’s intelligence units, who also know shortly before carrying out an attack roughly how many civilians are certain to be killed."

One source told them: "Nothing happens by accident. When a 3-year-old girl is killed in a home in Gaza, it’s because someone in the army decided it wasn’t a big deal for her to be killed — that it was a price worth paying in order to hit [another] target. We are not Hamas. These are not random rockets. Everything is intentional. We know exactly how much collateral damage there is in every home."

Even more dystopian - and this might be a first in the history of warfare - a lot of the targets are identified by AI: for instance they "use of a system called 'Habsora' ('The Gospel'), which is largely built on artificial intelligence and can 'generate' targets almost automatically at a rate that far exceeds what was previously possible. This AI system, as described by a former intelligence officer, essentially facilitates a 'mass assassination factory.' According to the sources, the increasing use of AI-based systems like Habsora allows the army to carry out strikes on residential homes where a single Hamas member lives on a massive scale, even those who are junior Hamas operatives."

I'm not going to copy the whole article here, you have to read this for yourself. IT IS INSANE. They've essentially been running, as the sources say, a "mass assassination factory" at a terrifying scale with massive and intended "collateral damage" (often the targets' entire families, or even sometimes much of their neighborhood), alongside an objective to destroy much of Gaza to “create a shock”, all on a population that had nowhere to escape. It'll likely remain in history books as one of the most depraved massacres in modern history."

 

 

[Yoshiyoshi]

48 minutes ago, Super19 said:

"

WOW, this might be THE most important piece of journalism on the war on Gaza since it began, by Israeli newspaper @972mag :
972mag.com/mass-assassina…

Essentially they confirm, with unimpeachable sourcing, that the killing of civilians was all calculated and intentional.

Their investigation is "based on conversations with seven current and former members of Israel’s intelligence community — including military intelligence and air force personnel who were involved in Israeli operations in the besieged Strip — in addition to Palestinian testimonies, data, and documentation from the Gaza Strip, and official statements by the IDF Spokesperson and other Israeli state institutions."

What the investigation reveals is that "the Israeli army has files on the vast majority of potential targets in Gaza — including homes — which stipulate the number of civilians who are likely to be killed in an attack on a particular target. This number is calculated and known in advance to the army’s intelligence units, who also know shortly before carrying out an attack roughly how many civilians are certain to be killed."

One source told them: "Nothing happens by accident. When a 3-year-old girl is killed in a home in Gaza, it’s because someone in the army decided it wasn’t a big deal for her to be killed — that it was a price worth paying in order to hit [another] target. We are not Hamas. These are not random rockets. Everything is intentional. We know exactly how much collateral damage there is in every home."

Even more dystopian - and this might be a first in the history of warfare - a lot of the targets are identified by AI: for instance they "use of a system called 'Habsora' ('The Gospel'), which is largely built on artificial intelligence and can 'generate' targets almost automatically at a rate that far exceeds what was previously possible. This AI system, as described by a former intelligence officer, essentially facilitates a 'mass assassination factory.' According to the sources, the increasing use of AI-based systems like Habsora allows the army to carry out strikes on residential homes where a single Hamas member lives on a massive scale, even those who are junior Hamas operatives."

I'm not going to copy the whole article here, you have to read this for yourself. IT IS INSANE. They've essentially been running, as the sources say, a "mass assassination factory" at a terrifying scale with massive and intended "collateral damage" (often the targets' entire families, or even sometimes much of their neighborhood), alongside an objective to destroy much of Gaza to “create a shock”, all on a population that had nowhere to escape. It'll likely remain in history books as one of the most depraved massacres in modern history."

 

 

um, hate to break it to you, but thats what every country does. every military has to decide if an attack is worth the cost in both lives of their own soldiers and civilian casualties. The only difference is how much civilian death is considered worth the cost. For western nations we tend to favor towards limiting the casualties whereas those on the authoritarian side tend to favor killing more civilians as they rarely  value lives as highly as the west and consider harming the enemy more important(Russia is a good example of this). Intelligence organizations are supposed to have data on their enemies to help make these decisions. As to the AI scaremongering there, the US uses a ton of AI in its decision making as well, probably the most in the world. I like how they threw the word dystopian in there too. Trying to hit all the trigger points with that article eh?

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

"

WOW, this might be THE most important piece of journalism on the war on Gaza since it began, by Israeli newspaper @972mag :
972mag.com/mass-assassina…

Essentially they confirm, with unimpeachable sourcing, that the killing of civilians was all calculated and intentional.

Their investigation is "based on conversations with seven current and former members of Israel’s intelligence community — including military intelligence and air force personnel who were involved in Israeli operations in the besieged Strip — in addition to Palestinian testimonies, data, and documentation from the Gaza Strip, and official statements by the IDF Spokesperson and other Israeli state institutions."

What the investigation reveals is that "the Israeli army has files on the vast majority of potential targets in Gaza — including homes — which stipulate the number of civilians who are likely to be killed in an attack on a particular target. This number is calculated and known in advance to the army’s intelligence units, who also know shortly before carrying out an attack roughly how many civilians are certain to be killed."

One source told them: "Nothing happens by accident. When a 3-year-old girl is killed in a home in Gaza, it’s because someone in the army decided it wasn’t a big deal for her to be killed — that it was a price worth paying in order to hit [another] target. We are not Hamas. These are not random rockets. Everything is intentional. We know exactly how much collateral damage there is in every home."

Even more dystopian - and this might be a first in the history of warfare - a lot of the targets are identified by AI: for instance they "use of a system called 'Habsora' ('The Gospel'), which is largely built on artificial intelligence and can 'generate' targets almost automatically at a rate that far exceeds what was previously possible. This AI system, as described by a former intelligence officer, essentially facilitates a 'mass assassination factory.' According to the sources, the increasing use of AI-based systems like Habsora allows the army to carry out strikes on residential homes where a single Hamas member lives on a massive scale, even those who are junior Hamas operatives."

I'm not going to copy the whole article here, you have to read this for yourself. IT IS INSANE. They've essentially been running, as the sources say, a "mass assassination factory" at a terrifying scale with massive and intended "collateral damage" (often the targets' entire families, or even sometimes much of their neighborhood), alongside an objective to destroy much of Gaza to “create a shock”, all on a population that had nowhere to escape. It'll likely remain in history books as one of the most depraved massacres in modern history."

 

 

It’s definitely a lesson in propaganda when reading how information is twisted to shape opinion.