Hamas attacking Israel

[Alflives]

Just now, Super19 said:

How is a greenlight by the US for Israel needing to do what it's doing unjustifiable vitriol towards Israel?

 

How is our governments support for Israel's war unjustifiable vitriol towards Israel?

 

How is the West's funding and arming of bombs to Israel unjustifiable vitriol towards Israel?

 

How is no ramifications from the international community to Israeli war crimes unjustifiable vitriol towards Israel?

 

How is the medias unwavering support for Israel's right to defend itself and all the narrative that encompasses an unjustifiable vitriol towards Israel?

 

The difference here that's causing a moral outrage from people all across the globe is because no one justifies the other atrocities. It's not antisemitism, and there are Jewish voices around the world that are also speaking out against Israel's actions. The fact that my stance even risks being called antisemitism shows you there is no justified condemnation of Israeli crimes against Palestenians allowed .

 

This is a brutal atrocity against the Palestenian people, but unlike other atrocities committed against other oppressed people, the ones that are doing the oppressing are the ones that are being supported. It's hypocrisy on a grand scale.

 

 

Actually those who are stumping for Hsmas are being duped by propaganda. Propaganda is the weapon of Hamas and they use that to prey on the weak minded. 
The IDF are doing a job (eliminating Hamas) that must be done for the people of Gaza to be free. Imo we will see Gaza built up into a good place for the people. There will be good jobs and opportunities. It’s going to take a couple generations though to cleanse the minds of the young who have been so horribly programmed by the evil that is (hopefully soon to be WAS) Hamas 

[RinkonRenfrew]

7 minutes ago, Super19 said:

How is a greenlight by the US for Israel needing to do what it's doing unjustifiable vitriol towards Israel?

 

How is our governments support for Israel's war unjustifiable vitriol towards Israel?

 

How is the West's funding and arming of bombs to Israel unjustifiable vitriol towards Israel?

 

How is no ramifications from the international community to Israeli war crimes unjustifiable vitriol towards Israel?

 

How is the medias unwavering support for Israel's right to defend itself and all the narrative that encompasses an unjustifiable vitriol towards Israel?

 

The difference here that's causing a moral outrage from people all across the globe is because no one justifies the other atrocities. It's not antisemitism, and there are Jewish voices around the world that are also speaking out against Israel's actions. The fact that my stance even risks being called antisemitism shows you there is no justified condemnation of Israeli crimes against Palestenians allowed .

 

This is a brutal atrocity against the Palestenian people, but unlike other atrocities committed against other oppressed people, the ones that are doing the oppressing are the ones that are being supported. It's hypocrisy on a grand scale.

 

 

So your argument is that we the ‘west’ should be held to a higher standard, and therefore when we are complicit or agnostic to the suffering ‘our’ side causes we should care and shout loud. 

 

I’m sorry, but that’s some bs. If you care about people suffering there is a long list you’re ignoring. Don’t get on your holier than though horse and call me a genocide, war crime supporting person over this conflict when you clearly don’t give a damn about the other 112 million people suffering due to armed conflict. 

 

Is this conflict being handled as well as it could with respect to innocent civilians? certainly not.  Is a country going after baby stealing, raping old-lady murderers? yeah. 

 

There are many more just causes to be upset about in this world that deserve your outrage. I don’t like what’s going on, but on the spectrum of stuff going on, this isn’t close to the worst. 

 

 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, RinkonRenfrew said:

So your argument is that we the ‘west’ should be held to a higher standard, and therefore when we are complicit or agnostic to the suffering ‘our’ side causes we should care and shout loud. 

 

I’m sorry, but that’s some bs. If you care about people suffering there is a long list you’re ignoring. Don’t get on your holier than though horse and call me a genocide, war crime supporting person over this conflict when you clearly don’t give a damn about the other 112 million people suffering due to armed conflict. 

 

Is this conflict being handled as well as it could with respect to innocent civilians? certainly not.  Is a country going after baby stealing, raping old-lady murderers? yeah. 

 

There are many more just causes to be upset about in this world that deserve your outrage. I don’t like what’s going on, but on the spectrum of stuff going on, this isn’t close to the worst. 

 

 

All true. But is there the propaganda directed at the west in those other wars? It’s sad we have so many who are so easily manipulated by the Hamas (Pootin and Iran) propaganda. 

[Sabrefan1]

 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Iran has evil leaders. The USA is showing great restraint not bombing those evil bastards. The IDF will eliminate Hamas and then what happens next? Gaza rebuilt. Opportunity for the Palestinian people. But will the evil people in Iran allow that to happen without a fight? 

[CBH1926]

1 hour ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Houthi’s are obviously not getting bombed enough by KSA so they are looking for more bombs to be dropped on them.

I could never figure out morons across the globe throughout the history, sticking their necks out for another political regime.

[Canuck Surfer]

8 hours ago, Super19 said:

 

The difference here that's causing a moral outrage from people all across the globe is because no one justifies the other atrocities.

 

This above is a good, really good summary of issues at a Geo Political level. 

 

Israel can, I agree, be condemned for taking advantage of groups that are, in effect, militant proxies. To stifle opposition to Israel. In some cases, let their own extremists steal land and profit. At a larger level Israelis' are not the biggest power brokers in the Middle East.  Just the strongest in this specific region.

 

I have bigger condemnation & blame for the regions true power brokers S Arabia & Iran. Iran in particular uses proxies as they do not have the wealth of the Kingdom. 

 

Proxies are historically, literally, sluts of whomever they can ally with to buy weapons. I made an argument already, simply feudal groups / tribes vying for power.        Exhort, extort local control. Israel has been the only constant, self, interest of the last 80 years. Everyone around them has pillaged any and all Muslim nations for control via proxies. This video below structures constantly changing allegiances of corrupt leadership in Yemen. Ali Abdul Saleh their 30 year dictator, partnered with Al Qaeda, S Arabia, the US, Iran, UAE, the Houthi's. Took bribes and weapons which fuelled his power, fought against most of these also, similar to Arafat. 

 

Once Saleh's corruption was obvious; there is flight to a next group such as Hamas. Back the next power vacuum, hope for an improvement?   

 

 

This second video is long.  Well worth watching in full.  You can see how atrocity is constructed. A necessary byproduct, also tool of seizing control.  

[Alflives]

Israel vows to get all the Hamas people. 
“https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-12-4-2023/index.html“

I wonder if that means they will try to get the super rich ones who live in other countries? 

 

[Boudrias]

16 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

Wow. That has to be decades of work toasted.

This tunnel system suggests a Humas long game. Yet Humas engineers an attack on Israel that deliberately inflicts a toll that Israel cannot ignore and which will ultimately lead to Humas's eradication. Effectively Egypt, Jordan, Emirates and Saudi Arabia have green lighted the demise of Hamas. The theological core of Humas is the Muslim Brotherhood which threatens all of the aforementioned Sunni Arab countries. 

 

We don't know how Gaza or the West Bank will be ruled after this war. West Bank is a corrupt autocracy and Gaza is the ultimate pawn with Hamas gone. Needless to say the Sunni Arab countries have the capital to have crafted a different outcome than the one we see now. The Palestinian poverty has spawned twisted ideologies which many powers have utilized to their own purposes. Other than an international authority moving into these areas and engaging in building a democracy there will be little hope. Israel cannot trust that kind of process as they have no room for hopes and dreams concocted by dreamers. Israel lives with 

2 1/2 million Palestinians inside Israel. Most of these people are happy to be there under a responsible government. True assimilation could take decades but it progresses. 

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

This tunnel system suggests a Humas long game. Yet Humas engineers an attack on Israel that deliberately inflicts a toll that Israel cannot ignore and which will ultimately lead to Humas's eradication. Effectively Egypt, Jordan, Emirates and Saudi Arabia have green lighted the demise of Hamas. The theological core of Humas is the Muslim Brotherhood which threatens all of the aforementioned Sunni Arab countries. 

 

We don't know how Gaza or the West Bank will be ruled after this war. West Bank is a corrupt autocracy and Gaza is the ultimate pawn with Hamas gone. Needless to say the Sunni Arab countries have the capital to have crafted a different outcome than the one we see now. The Palestinian poverty has spawned twisted ideologies which many powers have utilized to their own purposes. Other than an international authority moving into these areas and engaging in building a democracy there will be little hope. Israel cannot trust that kind of process as they have no room for hopes and dreams concocted by dreamers. Israel lives with 

2 1/2 million Palestinians inside Israel. Most of these people are happy to be there under a responsible government. True assimilation could take decades but it progresses. 

 

It certainly seems to me like Hamas miscalculated. There isn't a wider war, and the IDF is doing what it wants to, which as you say looks like what the other major players want as well.

 

I don't think the international community outside of the region will be much use. Look at north america, people are protesting book stores thinking they are helping  the democrats will be too afraid of losing "progressive" votes to get deeply involved.

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Israel vows to get all the Hamas people. 
“https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-12-4-2023/index.html“

I wonder if that means they will try to get the super rich ones who live in other countries? 

 

My understanding is that their secret squirrels have been given the green light to carry out those assassinations already. Surprised it didn't happen in Turkey 10 days ago. 

[Super19]

14 hours ago, RinkonRenfrew said:

So your argument is that we the ‘west’ should be held to a higher standard, and therefore when we are complicit or agnostic to the suffering ‘our’ side causes we should care and shout loud. 

 

I’m sorry, but that’s some bs. If you care about people suffering there is a long list you’re ignoring. Don’t get on your holier than though horse and call me a genocide, war crime supporting person over this conflict when you clearly don’t give a damn about the other 112 million people suffering due to armed conflict. 

 

Is this conflict being handled as well as it could with respect to innocent civilians? certainly not.  Is a country going after baby stealing, raping old-lady murderers? yeah. 

 

There are many more just causes to be upset about in this world that deserve your outrage. I don’t like what’s going on, but on the spectrum of stuff going on, this isn’t close to the worst. 

 

 

The West is supposed to be all about truth and justice isn't it?

 

I think you underestime just how bad this war is. More children have been killed in Gaza in 2 months than in all armed conflicts since 2019.

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Super19

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Super19 said:

The West is supposed to be all about truth and justice isn't it?

 

I think you underestime just how bad this war is. More children have been killed in Gaza in 2 months than in all armed conflicts since 2019.

 

 

 

how many killed in Yemen since then?

 

you keep talking about how this is all everyone else's responsibility. But if Israelis are the monsters you say they are, it falls to the Palestinians to be the ones to choose peace and good government. Until they choose that, nothing will change. 

 

[Super19]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

how many killed in Yemen since then?

 

you keep talking about how this is all everyone else's responsibility. But if Israelis are the monsters you say they are, it falls to the Palestinians to be the ones to choose peace and good government. Until they choose that, nothing will change. 

 

I edited my post to include a graphic. 3,700 Yemeni children killed from 2015-22. Horrible yes. But no one is cheering on their oppressors. And not as horrible as 4,100 Gazan children killed in 30 days + Israel getting all the support doing it.

 

Palestenians have had no army. No govt. No proper citizenship. All whilst fighting for basic freedoms like food, fuel, water and trying to keep their homes from illegal occupation. They can be taken prisoners without a trial. They've been highly oppressed. No one can come in or out of Gaza. Gazans can't even wade too far off in the ocean to swim or fish. Otherwise Israel has the greenlight to shoot em down or imprison them. 

[Super19]

3 hours ago, Boudrias said:

This tunnel system suggests a Humas long game. Yet Humas engineers an attack on Israel that deliberately inflicts a toll that Israel cannot ignore and which will ultimately lead to Humas's eradication. Effectively Egypt, Jordan, Emirates and Saudi Arabia have green lighted the demise of Hamas. The theological core of Humas is the Muslim Brotherhood which threatens all of the aforementioned Sunni Arab countries. 

 

We don't know how Gaza or the West Bank will be ruled after this war. West Bank is a corrupt autocracy and Gaza is the ultimate pawn with Hamas gone. Needless to say the Sunni Arab countries have the capital to have crafted a different outcome than the one we see now. The Palestinian poverty has spawned twisted ideologies which many powers have utilized to their own purposes. Other than an international authority moving into these areas and engaging in building a democracy there will be little hope. Israel cannot trust that kind of process as they have no room for hopes and dreams concocted by dreamers. Israel lives with 

2 1/2 million Palestinians inside Israel. Most of these people are happy to be there under a responsible government. True assimilation could take decades but it progresses. 

Saudi doesn't care about Palestenians. They are more interested in keeping some peace and deals with Israel. Saudis only interest in the land is some of the holy sites in Islam, and I'm sure Israel and Saudi have a deal to not desecrate the Al-Aqsa mosque. The pressure is mounting on these Arab countries day by day as the atrocities pile up, but still no action. Saudi doesn't care to "free Palestine" when they know it'll pit em against Israeli and US and be against their interests. The entire world fcked Palestine and dehumanized and humiliated them whilst doing it. 

 

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

It certainly seems to me like Hamas miscalculated. There isn't a wider war, and the IDF is doing what it wants to, which as you say looks like what the other major players want as well.

 

I don't think the international community outside of the region will be much use. Look at north america, people are protesting book stores thinking they are helping  the democrats will be too afraid of losing "progressive" votes to get deeply involved.

Protests and phone calls and letters to the MPs are about the only thing that can peacefully be done to draw attention/publicize the moral outrage/show solidarity and call for a ceasefire.

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Saudi doesn't care about Palestenians. They are more interested in keeping some peace and deals with Israel. Saudis only interest in the land is some of the holy sites in Islam, and I'm sure Israel and Saudi have a deal to not desecrate the Al-Aqsa mosque. The pressure is mounting on these Arab countries day by day as the atrocities pile up, but still no action. Saudi doesn't care to "free Palestine" when they know it'll pit em against Israeli and US and be against their interests. The entire world fcked Palestine and dehumanized and humiliated them whilst doing it. 

 

Protests and phone calls and letters to the MPs are about the only thing that can peacefully be done to draw attention/publicize the moral outrage/show solidarity and call for a ceasefire.

Where are the protests in Gaza against the vermin they have for a government?

[Bob Long]

16 minutes ago, Super19 said:

I edited my post to include a graphic. 3,700 Yemeni children killed from 2015-22. Horrible yes. But no one is cheering on their oppressors. And not as horrible as 4,100 Gazan children killed in 30 days + Israel getting all the support doing it.

 

Palestenians have had no army. No govt. No proper citizenship. All whilst fighting for basic freedoms like food, fuel, water and trying to keep their homes from illegal occupation. They can be taken prisoners without a trial. They've been highly oppressed. No one can come in or out of Gaza. Gazans can't even wade too far off in the ocean to swim or fish. Otherwise Israel has the greenlight to shoot em down or imprison them. 

 

No one can come in or out? You need to fact check yourself.

 

You are also wrong about their representative choices.

 

You paint them as infantilized victims. They have voted in a number of governments, and can do so again.

[the destroyer of worlds]

Video of Israel defending themselves.   

 

It's actually them just bombing a bunch of residential apartments.   

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/s/O6fbaM8H76

[bishopshodan]

3 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

Video of Israel defending themselves.   

 

It's actually them just bombing a bunch of residential apartments.   

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/s/O6fbaM8H76

 

That's brutal. 

 

 

[RomanPer]

2 hours ago, Super19 said:

The West is supposed to be all about truth and justice isn't it?

 

I think you underestime just how bad this war is. More children have been killed in Gaza in 2 months than in all armed conflicts since 2019.

 

 

Sure, let's believe Gazan sources. Because they've been so truthful to date. Don't you understand that they overinflate the number of children death specifically to cause this type of outrage reaction? These numbers from Gaza (Hamas) have zero connection to reality.

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

Video of Israel defending themselves.   

 

It's actually them just bombing a bunch of residential apartments.   

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/s/O6fbaM8H76

 

Does the video explain if there was anything in or under them that was helping Hamas?

[the destroyer of worlds]

24 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Does the video explain if there was anything in or under them that was helping Hamas?

 

I don't really care what the IDF says.  They lost all cred when they bombed refugee camps and KNEW beforehand that Hamas was planning an attack and blew it off.

 

Hamas needs to go.  1 billion percent.

 

I'm just against bombing and firing HE shells wherever is unacceptable.  Shooting unarmed civilians (plenty of examples from even before Oct. 7th and since).  Telling women and children to go south for "safety", then turn around and continue to bomb southern targets.

 

Again, Hamas needs to go.

 

There just isn't and excuse destroying large swaths of Gaza through bombing to do it.

[Bob Long]

Just now, the destroyer of worlds said:

 

I don't really care what the IDF says.  They lost all cred when they bombed refugee camps and KNEW beforehand that Hamas was planning an attack and blew it off.

 

I know that they call that area a refugee camp but it has multi story buildings.... Is that really still a camp?

 

Just now, the destroyer of worlds said:

Hamas needs to go.  1 billion percent.

 

I'm just against bombing and firing HE shells wherever is unacceptable.  Shooting unarmed civilians (plenty of examples from even before Oct. 7th and since).  Telling women and children to go south for "safety", then turn around and continue to bomb southern targets.

 

Again, Hamas needs to go.

 

There just isn't and excuse destroying large swaths of Gaza through bombing to do it.

 

I don't see any other way this could have played out. I just hope it saves more lives and a peaceful solution comes out of it in the end.

 

[the destroyer of worlds]

36 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Sure, let's believe Gazan sources. Because they've been so truthful to date. Don't you understand that they overinflate the number of children death specifically to cause this type of outrage reaction? These numbers from Gaza (Hamas) have zero connection to reality.

 

Instead, provide us with sources you approve and give us your approved numbers.  Specific sources.  Then we can compare.  I really don't have a dog in this fight besides the I disagree with IDF's tactics used and I support the position that the Israeli government is no saint here.  TO have a longing peace, Israel has some significant issues that need to be rectified on their end.  Hamas has to go, but the Palestinian people do not and should not pay for the crazy Hamas actions perpetrated on Oct 7th and beyond.

[Super19]

47 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Sure, let's believe Gazan sources. Because they've been so truthful to date. Don't you understand that they overinflate the number of children death specifically to cause this type of outrage reaction? These numbers from Gaza (Hamas) have zero connection to reality.

You know those numbers don't factor lost children under rubble, children injured, children orphaned, children displaced from their homes, children that are becoming sick from waterborne diseases, children that are facing famine. And don't forget about the mothers and fathers too.

 

The connection from these Israeli bombs to reality is far worse than you think.