Hamas attacking Israel

[the destroyer of worlds]

20 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I know that they call that area a refugee camp but it has multi story buildings.... Is that really still a camp?

 

 

I don't see any other way this could have played out. I just hope it saves more lives and a peaceful solution comes out of it in the end.

 

 

So there is a very specific definition for what would constitute a refugee camp?  I guessing something along the lines of a bunch of tents in the middle of nowhere with no running water or sewers is the only thing that would qualify.  

 

Yet what do you call an area where civilians are informed will provide them with food/shelter and some level of safety from the fighting in a place like Gaza that is densely populated with lots of build up civilian structures?  

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

 

So there is a very specific definition for what would constitute a refugee camp?  I guessing something along the lines of a bunch of tents in the middle of nowhere with no running water or sewers is the only thing that would qualify.  

 

tbh I'm not sure. "camp" usually signifies impermanence of some kind doesn't it?

 

I know its a semantics thing but its also important to try to understand whats really going on in some areas. 

 

If they were bombing tents it would be pretty hard to justify. If they are getting rid of Hamas sites with tunnels and rocket launchers, to me thats a different thing.

 

2 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

Yet what do you call an area where civilians are informed will provide them with food/shelter and some level of safety from the fighting in a place like Gaza that is densely populated with lots of build up civilian structures?  

 

I think those areas are clearly meant for now and not permanent aid areas.

 

I think it just shows how messy this kind of war is. 

[Sabrefan1]

I know squat about this news organization, but I ran across this article of theirs after I read a different one about a different subject.

 

https://themessenger.com/news/hamas-mutilated-genitals-of-israeli-victims-video-shown-to-united-nations-october-attacks?utm_source=onsite&utm_medium=horizontal_popular

 

Quote

Warning: This story contains graphic descriptions of violence.

 

In newly released video testimony, first responders and a survivor of Hamas' Oct. 7 massacre in Israel describe how the terrorists raped Israelis in their deadly rampage,

with one paramedic explaining the terror group "had a thing with sexual organs," specifically targeting victims' genitalia.

 

"Shooting was targeted at sexual organs. We saw that a lot," a paramedic testified to Israeli national police. "They had a thing with sexual organs, both in women and in men."

 

The video montage was shown during a special United Nations session held by Israeli ambassador Gilad Erdan in New York City on Monday.

 

The conference was intended to provide proof of Israel's allegations of widespread rape and sexual assault committed by Hamas in southern Israel in October – an aspect of the attack that killed some 1,200 people that advocates have complained has received little attention and has been subject to doubt and denial.

 

"On Oct. 7, Hamas perpetuated rape and sexual violence, exploiting these unforgivable crimes as weapons of war," Erdan said.

 

"This was pre-meditated. This was planned. This was instructed," he added. "Hamas terrorists were told to commit these acts of sheer evil in order to terrorize us and our families in order to drive us away from Israel out of fear."

 

In the video testimony, a rescue worker who responded to the carnage left by Hamas at the Supernova music festival described seeing women with their hands tied behind their backs.

 

"There was a body of a woman that had a blood stain on her genitalia," the worker said. "At first I thought she might have had a mishap out of fear. When we picked her up, we knew for sure it was blood."

 

The paramedic whose testimony was included in the video shown Monday said first responders on Oct. 7 frequently found people with their breasts and genitalia cut off.

 

"The women we received ... we mainly saw either breast amputation or gunshots just to the breasts, simply shooting from one side of the breast to the other," the paramedic said, adding that the women were alive when they were found.

 

"As for men, they were also shot in their genitalia. They had a thing with that – either amputation or targeted shooting [to that part of the body]."

 

A survivor of the festival attack – which left some 260 people dead – recalled seeing Hamas militants taking turns raping a woman as she was bleeding down her back.

"She had long hair," the survivor recalled. "He's pulling her hair. She's not dressed, and he cuts her breast. He throws [the breast] on the road. They were playing with it."

 

Yael Richert, of the Israeli national police, said the accounts shown were just "a fragment of the shocking and horrible testimonies proving the horrific crimes against humanity."

 

Richert said one witness from the music festival heard the screams of girls who were pulled out of emergency shelters, raped and burned.

A survivor described the bloodshed as an "apocalypse of corpses," Richert said.

 

"Girls without any clothes on, without tops, without underwear. People cut in half," Richert said, quoting the survivor's testimony. "People cut in half, butchered. Some were beheaded. There were girls with a broken pelvis due to repetitive rapes. Their legs were spread wide apart in a split."

 

In the months since the attacks, Israel has released has shown video footage of the assault captured by body cameras worn by Hamas gunmen as well as dashboard, security, and surveillance cameras to international journalists and world leaders, as officials work to combat denial over the severity of the terror rampage.

Reporters who have seen the footage have described images of burned babies and children, along with other indescribably graphic scenes.

 

In testimony released last month, one survivor recalled witnessing how Hamas fighters raped a young woman – and shot her in the head as they did.

That testimony also appeared to include similar details to the video played for the UN on Monday.

 

The survivor in the previously released testimony video recalled how the militants cut the woman's breast off her body and "literally played with it on the road."

 

Authorities also said at the time that they collected testimony from "dozens" of first responders who reported finding "naked women with injuries and their genitals mutilated, including women shackled naked in the lower part of their bodies."

 

[Alflives]

15 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

I know squat about this news organization, but I ran across this article of theirs after I read a different one about a different subject.

 

https://themessenger.com/news/hamas-mutilated-genitals-of-israeli-victims-video-shown-to-united-nations-october-attacks?utm_source=onsite&utm_medium=horizontal_popular

 

 

Sick frighin’ mofu bastards. All of them must be eliminated. 

[Super19]

7 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

I know squat about this news organization, but I ran across this article of theirs after I read a different one about a different subject.

 

https://themessenger.com/news/hamas-mutilated-genitals-of-israeli-victims-video-shown-to-united-nations-october-attacks?utm_source=onsite&utm_medium=horizontal_popular

 

 

Has it occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, Israel is capable of shameless propaganda and flat out lies? Why was there the need to present old photographs of deceased Kurdish and portray them as Israeli victims from the music festival?? 

 

[Alflives]

Just now, Super19 said:

Has it occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, Israel is capable of shameless propaganda and flat out lies? Why was there the need to present old photographs of deceased Kurdish and portray them as Israeli victims from the music festival?? 

 

So it’s all made up and just Israeli propaganda? October 7 didn’t happen? 
IMHAO it’s obvious to open thinking minds that Hamas did evil things on October 7. And also IMHAO Hamas has been doing evil things to the Gaza people too. Hamas is evil and (thank you IDF for your sacrifice) will be totally destroyed. Then the people of Gaza will be free. 

[Gurn]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

o it’s all made up and just Israeli propaganda? October 7 didn’t happen? 

Now just where the heck do you get that idea?

 

Why are people continually building strawmen in this thread?

 

Not enough real shit to argue about, so make more up, and try to force the 'other side' to defend the undefendable?

 

Weak. 

 

 

 

[Yoshiyoshi]

1 minute ago, Gurn said:

Now just where the heck do you get that idea?

 

Why are people continually building strawmen in this thread?

 

Not enough real shit to argue about, so make more up, and try to force the 'other side' to defend the undefendable?

 

Weak. 

 

 

 

the guy he is responding to is a hamas supporter, he shouldnt even bother trying to reason with him.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Gurn said:

Now just where the heck do you get that idea?

 

Why are people continually building strawmen in this thread?

 

Not enough real shit to argue about, so make more up, and try to force the 'other side' to defend the undefendable?

 

Weak. 

 

 

 

You’re entitled to your opinion. But notice how Alf comments on the thread topic and not on the poster. Hamas is evil. Go try and justify their doings on October 7 is wrong. 

[Gurn]

1 minute ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

the guy he is responding to is a hamas supporter, he shouldnt even bother trying to reason with him.

Please show me a single post where that other poster said he supports Hamas- just one freaking post.

Not "I read his post as supporting Hamas"- but an actual quote.

 

 

 

[Gurn]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

You’re entitled to your opinion. But notice how Alf comments on the thread topic and not on the poster. Hamas is evil. Go try and justify their doings on October 7 is wrong. 

So, again, where did you get the idea  that Oct 7th didn't happen and it's all made up ?

Because I sure didn't see  that in the Tweet he quoted.

 

 

 

[Yoshiyoshi]

3 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Please show me a single post where that other poster said he supports Hamas- just one freaking post.

Not "I read his post as supporting Hamas"- but an actual quote.

 

 

 

he continually tries to justify the oct 7th attack as a resistance against oppression. If you call him out he will backpedal but give him a few days and he will start pushing that narrative again. There are many on here who are opposed to Israel on this forum but this guy is the only one id say that about. I wouldnt be surprised if he was one of their internet trolls. Hes been doing this for over a month

Edited December 5, 2023 by Yoshiyoshi

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Please show me a single post where that other poster said he supports Hamas- just one freaking post.

Not "I read his post as supporting Hamas"- but an actual quote.

 

 

 

Hsmas is evil. The IDF is doing the people of Gaza a service by freeing them from Hamas. It’s good news reading on CNN today that Isreal is saying they are going to eliminate all Hamas. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Gurn said:

So, again, where did you get the idea  that Oct 7th didn't happen and it's all made up ?

Because I sure didn't see  that in the Tweet he quoted.

 

 

 

Again, you are entitled to your views. IMHAO Hamas is evil. If you don’t agree that is fine. It’s your opinion. 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

he continually tries to justify the oct 7th attack as a resistance against oppression. If you call him out he will backpedal but give him a few days and he will start pushing that narrative again. There are many on here who are opposed to Israel on this forum but this guy is the only one id say that about. I wouldnt be surprised if he was one of their internet trolls. Hes been doing this for over a month

[Super19]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

So it’s all made up and just Israeli propaganda? October 7 didn’t happen? 
IMHAO it’s obvious to open thinking minds that Hamas did evil things on October 7. And also IMHAO Hamas has been doing evil things to the Gaza people too. Hamas is evil and (thank you IDF for your sacrifice) will be totally destroyed. Then the people of Gaza will be free. 

Yes Hamas invaded and attacked Israel on Oct 7.

 

Everything is not so obvious, especially when either side gets caught in lie after lie from that day. Guess which side posted more misinformation surrounding Oct 7? The events of Oct 7 need to be investigated carefully and I am reading many angles and thoughts from all sides. 

[RomanPer]

3 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Yes Hamas invaded and attacked Israel on Oct 7.

 

Everything is not so obvious, especially when either side gets caught in lie after lie from that day. Guess which side posted more misinformation surrounding Oct 7? The events of Oct 7 need to be investigated carefully and I am reading many angles and thoughts from all sides. 

 

Oh, boy, Joseph Goebbels would have a field day with you and others like you... I'm sure he would give you plenty of "angels" to look at Nazi Germany "from all sides". I'm sure you would find some of them quite appealing.

[Super19]

2 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Oh, boy, Joseph Goebbels would have a field day with you and others like you... I'm sure he would give you plenty of "angels" to look at Nazi Germany "from all sides". I'm sure you would find some of them quite appealing.

Anyone who decides to carefully investigate the events on Oct 7 should not be called an anti-semite or a Nazi. 

 

Why don't you compare Nentanyahu to a Nazi? Has Nentanyahu not killed enough Palestenian babies yet? Nentanyahu is squeezing the Palestenians into a tighter and tighter space. Where have the Palestenians left to go to flee from the Israeli bombs? Nentanhayu told the Palestenians to go South as he destroyed the North. Now Nentanyahu wants to destroy the South.

[RomanPer]

Just now, Super19 said:

Anyone who decides to carefully investigate the events on Oct 7 should not be called an anti-semite or a Nazi. 

 

Why don't you compare Nentanyahu to a Nazi? Has Nentanyahu not killed enough Palestenian babies yet? Nentanyahu is squeezing the Palestenians into a tighter and tighter space. Where have the Palestenians left to go to flee from the Israeli bombs? Nentanhayu told the Palestenians to go South as he destroyed the North. Now Nentanyahu wants to destroy the South.

 

I didn't compare you to Nazi, re-read my post again and do some research on what Dr. Goebbels was famous (or, shall I say, infamous) for.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

Anyone who decides to carefully investigate the events on Oct 7 should not be called an anti-semite or a Nazi. 

 

Why don't you compare Nentanyahu to a Nazi? Has Nentanyahu not killed enough Palestenian babies yet? Nentanyahu is squeezing the Palestenians into a tighter and tighter space. Where have the Palestenians left to go to flee from the Israeli bombs? Nentanhayu told the Palestenians to go South as he destroyed the North. Now Nentanyahu wants to destroy the South.

Imhao there cannot be any justification for Hamas on z October 7. There are no buts. We must accept Hamas is evil. Then there can be discussion on other topics. 

[Curmudgeon]

I haven't spent much time in this thread, mostly due to the despair I feel at the extreme ends of the spectrum arguing what their version of the truth is in order to convince other people who are just as steadfast and stubborn in their own righteousness that they and only they know the real truth. Nobody here, and I mean nobody, can pretend to have all the facts about every situation in any community in the Middle East. My best advice, and advice is so cheap it's free, is to climb down off your high horses as you jockey for the moral high ground. There are no winners in this conflict, there are only losers and the losers are those who are paying with their lives, their families and their homes. This is the real crisis, the human loss and the never ending anguish it causes and which never goes away. Ever. And really, when did arguing with strangers over the internet solve anything? Ever?

Edited December 5, 2023 by Curmudgeon

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Curmudgeon said:

I haven't spent much time in this thread, mostly due to the despair I feel at the extreme ends of the spectrum arguing what their version of the truth is in order to convince other people who are just as steadfast and stubborn in their own righteousness that they and only the know the real truth. Nobody here, and I mean nobody, can pretend to have all the facts about every situation in any community in the Middle East. My best advice, and advice is so cheap it's free, is to climb down off your high horses as you jockey for the moral high ground. There are no winners in this conflict, there are only losers and the losers are those who are paying with their lives, their families and their homes. This is the real crisis, the human loss and the never ending anguish it causes and which never goes away. Ever. And really, when did arguing with strangers over solve anything? Ever?

Yup. We must accept the terrible effects on the brave IDF soldiers who are having now to risk their lives eliminating the evil that is Hamas. Those brave soldiers are doing what needs to be done and risking their lives to do it. 

[Super19]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Imhao there cannot be any justification for Hamas on z October 7. There are no buts. We must accept Hamas is evil. Then there can be discussion on other topics. 

Can you tell me in your opinion all the things Hamas is guilty for on Oct 7? 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Can you tell me in your opinion all the things Hamas is guilty for on Oct 7? 

Are you suggesting Hamas did not commit evil crimes on that day? 
 

[Super19]

Just now, Alflives said:

Are you suggesting Hamas did not commit evil crimes on that day? 
 

No, I'm not. But I think its important to be clear on what did/didn't happen on Oct 7. Were there 40 beheaded babies? Etc etc. What are the most evil crimes that Hamas committed on Oct 7 ? What are the main takeaways for you to justify this collective punishment (that many are calling a genocide) Israel is responsible for committing on Palestenians right now.