Hamas attacking Israel

[Super19]

15 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Perhaps if they had wheels they could be a bus.

Don't ask a man his salary, a woman her age, or Israel their evidence.

[Taxi]

18 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I have a friend who's area of operations was Turkey for almost a decade he was imbedded there. He chose to retire there as well, as he fell in love and married while on duty. 
Erdogan is a dictator, 100%. If he could, he WOULD take Turkey out of NATO but you are correct, that would put Turkey in a state of war on most of its borders, and so the potential just is not there for this to happen. One kind of cool thing, maybe, from chatting with him weekly and one bad thing too, that I have learned about Turkey and its systems: 

He has heart trouble in his old age, but with our level of pension income he is considered very rich there, his family now includes his wifes sister, and her daughter as she is a widow, and his mother in law, another widow, the large family unit move homes every season because they own a villa, an olive plantation with some trees over 700 years old, a house overlooking the Aegean Sea and a condo. With his heart trouble he has top of the line insurance and one time after a massive coronary, he was in the heart attack wing of one of the best hospitals and had 7 doctors attending to him as the only patient in the wing. If he had no insurance he would have died outside the doors, but with his full ride insurance he got the best of the best care as the only patient!! lol, he learned he makes more than those doctors do, just from his pension. 

The bad thing for him: every Canada Day he flies a Canadian Flag on his balcony, or patio, depending on which place they are living in at the time: every Canada Day he is arrested as a separatist...and has to explain over and over again he is a Canadian Ex-pat and it is Canada Day back home (here) and usually is let out after a few hours. 

What a world. 

 

OH and about Erdogan being a Dictator: one election year there were literally MILLIONS out protesting against him and the official vote count was something like 96% voted for him; which would be impossible assuming the protestors didn't vote for the person they were protesting against ... sham elections just like Russia. 

 

 

Turkey is in big trouble going forward. The Kurdish population has a fertility rate of about 3.5 birth/woman. The overall fertility rate in Turkey is below the replacement rate of 2.1. That means that the number of Turks are shrinking dramatically, but the number of, historically oppressed, Kurds are growing dramatically. Kurds likely make up at least 20% of the Turkish population now. In 40 years, they'll be a majority. Erdogan, is like Putin. He's holding onto a dying empire and lashing out.

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Don't ask a man his salary, a woman her age, or Israel their evidence.

 

Hey look how unbiased that is.

[Optimist Prime]

15 minutes ago, Taxi said:

 

 

Turkey is in big trouble going forward. The Kurdish population has a fertility rate of about 3.5 birth/woman. The overall fertility rate in Turkey is below the replacement rate of 2.1. That means that the number of Turks are shrinking dramatically, but the number of, historically oppressed, Kurds are growing dramatically. Kurds likely make up at least 20% of the Turkish population now. In 40 years, they'll be a majority. Erdogan, is like Putin. He's holding onto a dying empire and lashing out.

I struggle to understand his seeming goal of taking and holding 30km's along Turkey's southern border of Syrian Territory. Meant to be a demilitarized zone, all it really will do is encompass more Kurds into Turkey's area of control. Shrug, never interrupt your opponent when they are making a mistake. 

Edit: i suppose it is to foil any hopes of Kurdish homeland, BUT the obvious, in 20 years time this will lead to more Kurds in Turkey. All well, I like them a lot, the ones I met and I think they may deserve their own homeland, depending on how the ultimate demise of Al Asshat in Syria. (typo on purpose) If the eventual goal of democratic elections in Syria is ever achieved, I would fully support leaving Syria intact, but if it ends up split into three new nations, as it appears to be headed towards, I support the idea of a democratic Kurdistan, in a broad sense, while still hating ethnic divides at national borders. 

As a species we need to get over our fear of the other, and frankly, we need to get over religion. WIthout the idea that god is 'on our side' no matter who the side is...perhaps there would be a whole lot less killing in the name of....

[Super19]

10 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Hey look how unbiased that is.

It's called critical thinking/analysis.

 

You just simply believe every single word Israel says when they mention "Hamas".

"20k killed are just 'Hamas' numbers... Oh 20k Palestenians actually did die? But, 'Hamas'". You just gotta say 'Hamas' and it's like the magic words to let Israel do or say whatever it wants.

 

When Israel says something and they mention Hamas, it's like your truth serum.

 

Israel bombed and killed an innocent family! Israel bombed the oldest mosque in Gaza! But oh yeah, 'Hamas' remember?  .

 

Put your critical thinking hat on.

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Taxi said:

It's a warzone. People are going to be detained. Hamas doesn't wear uniforms. They habitually use people dressed as civilians to carry out attacks. 

I would add that when Hamas has infiltrated UNRWA up to 80% of the 5000 positions in Gaza, and anyone with a blog can put on a PRESS labelled helmet and flak jacket, I am sure that both things can be true: the detained person is very likely a 'member of the press in gaza' and also a member of Hamas in gaza. Folks don't seem to fully understand the root of the situation. The governing body of Gaza, Hamas, are a terrorist organization that leads the society there by force of will. They toss their arab/muslim opponents off rooftops and worse. They run the Health Ministry, the Information Ministry, they confiscate relief aid even in the last month that has crossed into Gaza. Every single official entity in Gaza has been infiltrated or outright run by Hamas, the terrorists. This is what makes it so hard to root them out. It is sad that Israel has really three choices: suffer endless attacks and murderous rampages from Gaza into Israel proper, OR bomb every place that has Hamas agents in it, OR go in with boots on the ground and suffer casualties from the IDF ranks of young Israeli people. Obviously they can't ignore it and hope Hamas goes away, and so we see the other two options being balanced as well as any nation could, while defending itself. In short, you are right, it is a warzone. Looking for rules to be enforced by some imaginary referee like a hockey game is just naive and infantile.

 

I would call for the people of Gaza to give up Hamas and turn them over to the IDF, or at least rise up against them and overthrow them now in order to really save Gaza itself. It doesn't appear that will happen.

[Super19]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

I would add that when Hamas has infiltrated UNRWA up to 80% of the 5000 positions in Gaza, and anyone with a blog can put on a PRESS labelled helmet and flak jacket, I am sure that both things can be true: the detained person is very likely a 'member of the press in gaza' and also a member of Hamas in gaza. Folks don't seem to fully understand the root of the situation. The governing body of Gaza, Hamas, are a terrorist organization that leads the society there by force of will. They toss their arab/muslim opponents off rooftops and worse. They run the Health Ministry, the Information Ministry, they confiscate relief aid even in the last month that has crossed into Gaza. Every single official entity in Gaza has been infiltrated or outright run by Hamas, the terrorists. This is what makes it so hard to root them out. It is sad that Israel has really three choices: suffer endless attacks and murderous rampages from Gaza into Israel proper, OR bomb every place that has Hamas agents in it, OR go in with boots on the ground and suffer casualties from the IDF ranks of young Israeli people. Obviously they can't ignore it and hope Hamas goes away, and so we see the other two options being balanced as well as any nation could, while defending itself. In short, you are right, it is a warzone. Looking for rules to be enforced by some imaginary referee like a hockey game is just naive and infantile.

 

I would call for the people of Gaza to give up Hamas and turn them over to the IDF, or at least rise up against them and overthrow them now in order to really save Gaza itself. It doesn't appear that will happen.

Israel definitely sees Hamas as a spreading poison in Gaza. Maybe those civillians were poisoned indeed.

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, Super19 said:

It's called critical thinking/analysis.

 

You just simply believe every single word Israel says when they mention "Hamas".

"20k killed are just 'Hamas' numbers... Oh 20k Palestenians actually did die? But, 'Hamas'". You just gotta say 'Hamas' and it's like the magic words to let Israel do or say whatever it wants.

 

When Israel says something and they mention Hamas, it's like your truth serum.

 

Israel bombed and killed an innocent family! Israel bombed the oldest mosque in Gaza! But oh yeah, 'Hamas' remember?  .

 

Put your critical thinking hat on.

 

Oh thinking hat. I was hoping for more of a bs umbrella but sure.

 

I'm sorry but you keep posting highly biased links, for quite a while now. My first reaction now is to not believe any links  you post.

[Super19]

16 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Oh thinking hat. I was hoping for more of a bs umbrella but sure.

Lol.

 

16 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

I'm sorry but you keep posting highly biased links, for quite a while now. My first reaction now is to not believe any links  you post.

It's okay. I know there's bias. There's bias all around. Objective journalism during war time? Forget about it.

 

I don't mind if you don't believe it. I presented it. And it's yours to take however you want. Just don't infer disrespectful thoughts to me is what I ask. I'm not owed that. But it'd be nice.

 

I'm sure you agree that all sides are bias. It's why analytic journalism is helpful. Rather than just taking one source, wether it's Fox, CNN, Al-Jazeera, BBC, Israeli officials, Hamas guys... there is something close to the truth within all those. Except maybe for Fox

 

I will note there is a severe lack of journalists in Gaza right now. And you should definitely hear what the ones inside are saying and documenting.

 

 

Edit: I will say I do mind when I feel you pass Palestinian life off as insignificant or not as important than Israel's goals when they drop their bombs.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Super19

[Bob Long]

7 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Lol.

 

It's okay. I know there's bias. There's bias all around. Objective journalism during war time? Forget about it.

 

I don't mind if you don't believe it. I presented it. And it's yours to take however you want. Just don't infer disrespectful thoughts to me is what I ask. I'm not owed that. But it'd be nice.

 

I'm sure you agree that all sides are bias. It's why analytic journalism is helpful. Rather than just taking one source, wether it's Fox, CNN, Al-Jazeera, BBC, Israeli officials, Hamas guys... there is something close to the truth within all those. Except maybe for Fox

 

I will note there is a severe lack of journalists in Gaza right now. And you should definitely hear what the ones inside are saying and documenting.

 

true things should be civil here and elsewhere. 

 

But if someone keeps posting things that are sketchy, disproven, etc. over and over, some of that is going to reflect on a poster at some point. Maybe thats not fair, but thats what happens. 

 

Its a problem inherent in twitter imo, the desire to flick out tweets quickly with no analysis or really any investigation into who's putting it out. If a person spreads info like that, it tends to help those who seek to spread disinformation, imo. 

 

[Super19]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

true things should be civil here and elsewhere. 

 

But if someone keeps posting things that are sketchy, disproven, etc. over and over, some of that is going to reflect on a poster at some point. Maybe thats not fair, but thats what happens. 

 

Its a problem inherent in twitter imo, the desire to flick out tweets quickly with no analysis or really any investigation into who's putting it out. If a person spreads info like that, it tends to help those who seek to spread disinformation, imo. 

 

You're right and I feel the same. I don't know if anyone following this war to the extent we are, can align themselves exactly in the middle.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

You're right and I feel the same. I don't know if anyone following this war to the extent we are, can align themselves exactly in the middle.

 

I think some of the goals are aligned, like a stable peaceful Gaza. 

[Super19]

11 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I think some of the goals are aligned, like a stable peaceful Gaza. 

And Israel's right to exist.

[Optimist Prime]

the Israeli Defense Force has captured Palestine Square from Hamas, the governing body of Gaza that attacked Israel on Oct 7th 2023. I am wondering if Hamas regret that murder spree yet or if they are still celebrating murdering kids at a peace rally?

 

8 days ago Hamas militants handed over two of the kidnapped hostages to the Red Cross/Red Crescent authorities, they are still holding 130ish of them as hostages by the way, and the event was geolocated to very near this place. 

[Super19]

Motaz, a popular journalist inside Gaza:

 

[Canuck Surfer]

7 hours ago, StrayDog said:

So we can't believe that they're Hamas fighters because Israel said they are, but we must believe that one of them is a Palestinian journalist because some rando on X said he is? Do you not see the disconnect in that thinking? 

 

 

I would surprised if a journalist or two wasn't embedded with Hamas. Yet what are the odds that group of men which were hauled out after crawling from a tunnel, or similar.

 

Were just at a sporting match, a gambling den? Back to the reporter. Being arrested, even if they feel being stripped is some kind of violation. Processed, interrogated, ID checked and treated as a POW is likely safer than any fate or loss of vanity.  In the middle of a war zone, this could easily be their safest exit. The press guy specifically will still have his inside scoop & his life.

[Super19]

 

 

[Super19]

I am so dissappinted by this US Veto. Ceasefire and diplomacy is the only way for lasting peace for both Palestenians and Israelis. US wants the war to continue?

[Canuck Surfer]

This IS not Hamas.

 

Yet the well documented truth of what happens when a violent male dominated culture gains control using militant power. The headline stark, but the story told by a guard who escaped, credible. 

 

 

[Taxi]

3 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

I struggle to understand his seeming goal of taking and holding 30km's along Turkey's southern border of Syrian Territory. Meant to be a demilitarized zone, all it really will do is encompass more Kurds into Turkey's area of control. Shrug, never interrupt your opponent when they are making a mistake. 

Edit: i suppose it is to foil any hopes of Kurdish homeland, BUT the obvious, in 20 years time this will lead to more Kurds in Turkey. All well, I like them a lot, the ones I met and I think they may deserve their own homeland, depending on how the ultimate demise of Al Asshat in Syria. (typo on purpose) If the eventual goal of democratic elections in Syria is ever achieved, I would fully support leaving Syria intact, but if it ends up split into three new nations, as it appears to be headed towards, I support the idea of a democratic Kurdistan, in a broad sense, while still hating ethnic divides at national borders. 

As a species we need to get over our fear of the other, and frankly, we need to get over religion. WIthout the idea that god is 'on our side' no matter who the side is...perhaps there would be a whole lot less killing in the name of....

 

Turkey is trying to prevent an independent Kurdish state from setting up shop right on their border. Effectively, occupying a greater number of Kurds. The issue is how long they can keep that up for. It's only a matter of time though, until the Kurdish population is so large that none of Turkey, Syria, Iraq, or Iran will be able to control them. Both Turkey and Iran are in similar situations to Russia, where they have quickly shrinking populations and are still trying to hold various territories and ethnic groups under control. Iraq and Syria obviously have their own problems, and the Kurds already have a high level of sovereignty in those two countries already.

[Optimist Prime]

20 minutes ago, Taxi said:

 

Turkey is trying to prevent an independent Kurdish state from setting up shop right on their border. Effectively, occupying a greater number of Kurds. The issue is how long they can keep that up for. It's only a matter of time though, until the Kurdish population is so large that none of Turkey, Syria, Iraq, or Iran will be able to control them. Both Turkey and Iran are in similar situations to Russia, where they have quickly shrinking populations and are still trying to hold various territories and ethnic groups under control. Iraq and Syria obviously have their own problems, and the Kurds already have a high level of sovereignty in those two countries already.

and are being supported by the west, although short of complete independence, we are regionally allied with the Kurds in Syria.

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

I am so dissappinted by this US Veto. Ceasefire and diplomacy is the only way for lasting peace for both Palestenians and Israelis. US wants the war to continue?

Hamas not being exterminated is not acceptable to the US or Israel.

[Ilunga]

8 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

So whats the message then? Don't try?

 

The only message I was sending is pointing out you are wrong about south Africa. 

 

As for what happens after this conflict is over any rational, intelligent person knows what will happen.

Things will go back to how they were before this particular conflict started, no matter who the governing body of the Palestinians is.

That's what history teaches us. 

 

 

Regarding the west bank 

 

Even an Aussie is stealing land in Jerusalem from people who have lived there for 1600 years. 

 

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/religionandethicsreport/property-deal-could-threaten-armenian-presence-in-holy-land/103126920

 

While not in Israel, the Armenian people are victims of genocide.

[Super19]

22 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Hamas not being exterminated is not acceptable to the US or Israel.

A ceasefire ensures the hostages get returned. Diplomatic resolutions will ensure palestine gets its state. The ceasefire ensures neither Israel or Palestene can piss on eachother. Some groups and countries can help build back Palestine but ultimately it'll be up to palestenians and Hamas to find suitable leadership. Hamas doesn't have to go if they show they can lead, and this resistance freedom fighting version of Hamas we see today is squashed.

 

Some of the resolutions could be Hamas leadership and Nentanyahu/IDF leaders go to the Hague for crimes against humanity and war crimes. 

 

Enough blood has been shed.

 

 

[King Heffy]

4 minutes ago, Super19 said:

A ceasefire ensures the hostages get returned. Diplomatic resolutions will ensure palestine gets its state. The ceasefire ensures neither Israel or Palestene can piss on eachother. Some groups and countries can help build back Palestine but ultimately it'll be up to palestenians and Hamas to find suitable leadership. Hamas doesn't have to go if they show they can lead, and this resistance freedom fighting version of Hamas we see today is squashed.

 

Some of the resolutions could be Hamas leadership and Nentanyahu/IDF leaders go to the Hague for crimes against humanity and war crimes. 

 

Enough blood has been shed.

 

 

Hamas absolutely has to go.  They simply do not have the right to exist.  Your bias is showing by calling these vermin everything expect what they are: terrorists.

Edited December 8, 2023 by King Heffy