Hamas attacking Israel

[Bob Long]

25 minutes ago, Super19 said:

This is a real escalation IMO.

 

This blockade obviously has severe implications. Clap back against the Houthis? They'll target Saudi oil with their rockets. If Saudi oil gets hit, more escalation.

 

Only back on their stupid asses. They are like teens that jump off a cliff for fun and are surprised when there's rocks below.

[Alflives]

15 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Only back on their stupid asses. They are like teens that jump off a cliff for fun and are surprised when there's rocks below.

Yup. Stupid people, doing stupid things, and winning stupid prizes. These Hooties sound like the classic stupid. 

[Canuck Surfer]

8 hours ago, Bob Long said:

I just don't think peaceful coexistence within one country is possible

 

I am not suggesting it will be easy? And lets stray two or three hundred kilometers in each direction for suggestion?

 

There are places like Jerusalem in particular. That will need to be multi-cultural. Bethlehem, the Dead Sea, Hebron? That need to be tolerant, welcoming and extend a hand to those whom feel a holy connection.  Religious' shrines all over the world, their spirit, are better open & celebrated than closed.  In particular for residents, without restricting others. Then consider life balance, opportunity for tourism. Gaza, Lebanon, Northern Syria all on the Mediterranean coast could increase their GDP enough to impact every resident positively.    

 

Mecca is one of the world's busiest tourist centers, Jerusalem not far behind on the back of religious & cultural interest. In spite of all, the West Bank is mostly open and receives as many tourists as all of Lebanon almost. Beirut, Gaza city, Tripoli in N Lebanon, the old port city of Tartus could be premiere attractions as well. War, lack of inclusion, security, poverty are a self fulfilling prophecy.   

 

Instead the countries, rather their warlord leaders, rely on black markets, support for human suffering from external parties, arms sales, payola & human trafficking.  Their income is fantastic, while the world, and their people are deprived of opportunity. 

 

I mean, no one other than Muslim's should pray at the West Wall Al Aqsa?  Such stigma is a root cause of poverty. 

 

Spoiler

I am aware of limitations placed on those wishing to visit Al Aqsa, notably residents.  I believe it would be fully open if tensions were not so high. 

 

I also believe that those who wish to March & propose diminished Muslim access, violence, as RW extremists need to be arrested.  I am not a supporter of Settlement violence or exclusion. That contributes negatively, but as a whole Israel would make such zones open. A policy it is exclusively theirs is very limiting by either party, more prevalent in Islamic extremism.

 

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

I am not suggesting it will be easy? And lets stray two or three hundred kilometers in each direction for suggestion?

 

There are places like Jerusalem in particular. That will need to be multi-cultural. Bethlehem, the Dead Sea, Hebron? That need to be tolerant, welcoming and extend a hand to those whom feel a holy connection.  Religious' shrines all over the world, their spirit, are better open & celebrated than closed.  In particular for residents, without restricting others. Then consider life balance, opportunity for tourism. Gaza, Lebanon, Northern Syria all on the Mediterranean coast could increase their GDP enough to impact every resident positively.    

 

Mecca is one of the world's busiest tourist centers, Jerusalem not far behind on the back of religious & cultural interest. In spite of all, the West Bank is mostly open and receives as many tourists as all of Lebanon almost. Beirut, Gaza city, Tripoli in N Lebanon, the old port city of Tartus could be premiere attractions as well. War, lack of inclusion, security, poverty are a self fulfilling prophecy.   

 

Instead the countries, rather their warlord leaders, rely on black markets, support for human suffering from external parties, arms sales, payola & human trafficking.  Their income is fantastic, while the world, and their people are deprived of opportunity. 

 

I mean, no one other than Muslim's should pray at the West Wall Al Aqsa?  Such stigma is a root cause of poverty. 

 

  Hide contents

I am aware of limitations placed on those wishing to visit Al Aqsa, notably residents.  I believe it would be fully open if tensions were not so high. 

 

I also believe that those who wish to March & propose diminished Muslim access, violence, as RW extremists need to be arrested.  I am not a supporter of Settlement violence or exclusion. That contributes negatively, but as a whole Israel would make such zones open. A policy it is exclusively theirs is very limiting by either party, more prevalent in Islamic extremism.

 

 

 

its pretty interesting to compare the West Bank to Gaza. Why is the WB, relatively, much safer and more peaceful? 

 

I don't think it would be easy at all to try to integrate Gaza in the same way, I just don't think the hate could be set aside unless they had control of their own border in Gaza. 

 

One of the biggest hurdles would be convincing Egypt to have a regular border with Gaza as well. Unless there's something a lot more moderate and stable running Gaza thats never going to be a free crossing of any kind.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

10 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

I just don't think peaceful coexistence within one country is possible. There's just too much hatred, too many outside actors happy to meddle and keep this going.

 

The only viable path I see is two states, and Gaza not run by a terrorist organization. Palestinians need better leadership.

 

As far as rebuilding goes, this is a good time for people in the west who support Gaza to step up and help with more than tweets.

 

Yes with that attitude there will never be  peaceful coexistence. 

There are always those that look for what seperates us, not what brings us together.

 

For the 80 odd years this bullshit has been going on Hamas has only been in charge since 2006. 

 

Talking about helping people, 1.3 million children live in poverty in Canada, tell me, do you do anything help them ? 

 

This is what I do in my country, I sponsor 2 Smith family children

 

https://www.thesmithfamily.com.au/

 

1 in 6 Aussie kids live in poverty.

As I have stated we can't even look after those less fortunate than us properly in our own " wealthy " societies. 

 

I am sorry if I sound brusque but it's pretty simple to me.

Treat others how you wish to be treated yourself, and treat those less fortunate with compassion and empathy.

[Ilunga]

8 hours ago, Taxi said:

A one state solution won't work. The Israelis have more education and wealth and would buy land out from underneath the Arabs. Then you'd have ultra religious Jews having far more babies than other groups and just taking over the West Bank. In a single state you can't, for example, say Jewish people can't live in the West Bank, and, when they move in, the police and military have to protect them. The West Bank would be totally Jewish within 1-2 generations.

 

You'd also have all sorts of military conflicts without a hard border. The islamist groups aren't going to disappear over night.

 

It didn't work in Lebanon. It wouldn't work in Israel. A two state solution where both sides unconditionally accept the right of the other to nationhood is the only solution that will work. The Israelis would also need a peace treaty with the Arab league, and outside forces, like Iran, would need to stop funding conflict.

 

2020 figures

Isreals birth rate 2.90

Palestinian birth rate 3.57 

 

When Jewish people move into the west bank ?

You actually mean when Jewish settlers steal the land from the Palestinians and the police aide and abet them.

 

http://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/200205_land_grabv

 

The Isreali goverment is making peace deals with many of its Arab neighbours.

Many were speculating that the attack on October the 7th was to disrupt talks with the Saudis.

Another criminal regime.

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Ilunga

[Taxi]

16 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

2020 figures

Isreals birth rate 2.90

Palestinian birth rate 3.57 

 

When Jewish people move into the west bank ?

You actually mean when Jewish settlers steal the land from the Palestinians and the police aide and abet them.

 

http://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/200205_land_grabv

 

The Isreali goverment is making peace deals with many of its Arab neighbours.

Many were speculating that the attack on October the 7th was to disrupt talks with the Saudis.

Another criminal regime.

 

Here's the thing. If there's one state, you can't limit the land to one ethnicity anymore. There's no more labels. No settlers. No "stealing". Just one state where everyone can buy the land. 

 

Your fertility figures are also out dated. If you look at the fertility rate if Jews in the West Bank that's over 5.

[Optimist Prime]

26 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

Yes with that attitude there will never be  peaceful coexistence. 

I understand where you are coming from and I appreciate your position, and I do fully wish for peace and prosperity for all humankind, but I still feel the need to point out nothing we say here in a tiny hockey forum will have any impact on the situation in the middle east today, tomorrow or a decade from now, unfortunately, or there would be peace already. Have a great night everyone, game night so I am not spending time in the off topic any more today. 

[Ilunga]

Not stealing land ?

Didn't you read the article, Isreali human rights organisation.

I know you have never been much for human rights when they don't suit your purposes.

 

 

As for being the same ethnicity, actually Palestinians and Jews are of the same ethnicity, they share the same genetic history.

 

https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/2015-10-20/ty-article/palestinians-and-jews-share-genetic-roots/0000017f-dc0e-df9c-a17f-fe1e57730000

 

And above all, we are all human beings that can be traced back to the place that is now called Botswana. 

 

I gave a date for the birth rate figures, only four years old. 

 

 

[Ilunga]

12 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I understand where you are coming from and I appreciate your position, and I do fully wish for peace and prosperity for all humankind, but I still feel the need to point out nothing we say here in a tiny hockey forum will have any impact on the situation in the middle east today, tomorrow or a decade from now, unfortunately, or there would be peace already. Have a great night everyone, game night so I am not spending time in the off topic any more today. 

 

People that advocate for peace, compassion and empathy are voices that need to be heard in any forum, society, group of people you can name. 

 

The more of us that do this, the more chance we have of peacefully coexisting together. 

 

I hope you are having a nice evening with your family.

[Bob Long]

57 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Yes with that attitude there will never be  peaceful coexistence. 

There are always those that look for what seperates us, not what brings us together.

 

For the 80 odd years this bullshit has been going on Hamas has only been in charge since 2006. 

 

Talking about helping people, 1.3 million children live in poverty in Canada, tell me, do you do anything help them ? 

 

This is what I do in my country, I sponsor 2 Smith family children

 

https://www.thesmithfamily.com.au/

 

1 in 6 Aussie kids live in poverty.

As I have stated we can't even look after those less fortunate than us properly in our own " wealthy " societies. 

 

I am sorry if I sound brusque but it's pretty simple to me.

Treat others how you wish to be treated yourself, and treat those less fortunate with compassion and empathy.

 

Why are you making this personal?

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

Why are you making this personal?

The personal anger some express here is exactly why evil like Hamas exists. This is a hockey chat site, and those of us who post here don’t make any effect on the situation in Gaza with our posts. We don’t even (really) no each other. Yet still some get very upset and become angry and aggressive. And we expect those who have been hating one another for centuries (as neighbors) to make peace when we can’t. 

[Ilunga]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

Why are you making this personal?

 

You have made statements that kinda deride the people who are protesting on behalf of the Palestinians.

Then you just stated that they should step up and fund the rebuilding of Gaza.

 

I am genuinely interested if you care about the less fortunate people in your own society, especially the children.

They have no choice in regards to their circumstances.

As the saying goes, charity begins in the home.

In this case, our societies. 

 

" It's easier to fight for ones principles than to live up to them "

 

Alfred Adler 

 

I am sorry if you have taken offense, no offense was intended.

[Ilunga]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The personal anger some express here is exactly why evil like Hamas exists. This is a hockey chat site, and those of us who post here don’t make any effect on the situation in Gaza with our posts. We don’t even (really) no each other. Yet still some get very upset and become angry and aggressive. And we expect those who have been hating one another for centuries (as neighbors) to make peace when we can’t. 

 

Angry ?

Aggressive ?

Please quote posts where I express anger or where I am aggressive.

As I have taught my son, anger is an emotion that only hurts those that feel that emotion.

 

I don't continually make posts about people being evil, how they must be exterminated.

 

My posts are about how we are all brothers and sisters under the sun.

That we should treat each other the way we want to be treated ourselves.

That we should show compassion and empathy to those less fortunate than us.

 

This thread makes me feel sad.

 

 

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Angry ?

Aggressive ?

Please quote posts where I express anger or where I am aggressive.

As I have taught my son, anger is an emotion that only hurts those that feel that emotion.

 

I don't continually make posts about people being evil, how they must be exterminated.

 

My posts are about how we are all brothers and sisters under the sun.

That we should treat each other the way we want to be treated ourselves.

That we should show compassion and empathy to those less fortunate than us.

 

This thread makes me feel sad.

 

 

 

Makes me sad too. 

[Bob Long]

16 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

You have made statements that kinda deride the people who are protesting on behalf of the Palestinians.

Then you just stated that they should step up and fund the rebuilding of Gaza.

 

I am genuinely interested if you care about the less fortunate people in your own society, especially the children.

They have no choice in regards to their circumstances.

As the saying goes, charity begins in the home.

In this case, our societies. 

 

" It's easier to fight for ones principles than to live up to them "

 

Alfred Adler 

 

I am sorry if you have taken offense, no offense was intended.

 

I don't need to prove to you what I have or haven't done.

[Ilunga]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Makes me sad too. 

 

My dad fought against an evil far worse than Hamas.

 

When I could finally get him to talk about it, he didn't talk about extermination or even killing.

He basically told me it was just a dirty job that had to be done.

[Ilunga]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

I don't need to prove to you what I have or haven't done.

 

Of course you don't.

 

You called on others to step up, I am interested if you care, and act on that emotion, for people less fortunate than yourself in your society.  

Especially children.

I don't think this is a rude question.

 

Again I am sorry if you took offense.

[Gnarcore]

7 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

You are not wrong about the corruption but it is the lesser of two bad things when the current regime is murderous, i will take corrupt over murderous any day of the week.

Sure..but we don't have just have those two options. Plus..who likes being forced into something? Just makes people do the opposite.

[Optimist Prime]

32 minutes ago, Gnarcore said:

Sure..but we don't have just have those two options. Plus..who likes being forced into something? Just makes people do the opposite.

Agreed, I would love to hear or see of a Democratic Palestinian Party or some such crop up and start working with the world to advance peace and prosperity.

[Super19]

An Indigenous contigent led this week's "All Out For Palestine" March in downtown Vancouver earlier this evening. 

 

Crowds of people gathered at Vancouver Art Gallery to hear a few words from Indigenous and Palestenian activists, before the Indigenous contigent led the march, as over 1,000 followed behind chanting "Ceasefire Now" and "Free Free Palestine" in the wet rainy streets of Downtown Vancouver.

 

Sources estimate over 20,000 civillians have now been killed in Gaza since Israel began their military operation, most of the killed are women and children.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Super19

[Canuck Surfer]

9 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

its pretty interesting to compare the West Bank to Gaza. Why is the WB, relatively, much safer and more peaceful? 

 

Because Israel stamps the passports, has the airports, controls the border, security checkpoints & is open to other cultures. Presents the welcome brochure in travel agencies around the world.  If it's not more welcoming, it appears that way coming via Israel?

 

Its not actually more peaceful than Gaza I don't think.  Just the mere fact there are settlers intermingling with with Palestinians, Hamas and Hezbollah. Their militants & sympathizers.  Its also a thoroughfare for the weapons brought in for even the smaller attacks, like suicide bombers or bus attacks. The primary difference is simply the targets are not controlling their own Palestinian people. Therefore its more public.      

 

edit: forgot the main point.  Imagine Mediterranean tourist centres. Gambling is frowned upon in Muslim culture. Until it isn't! Imagine Turkey, Monaco, or French Riviera casino's, tax havens, luxury hotels, beach resorts. Interconnected to the Arab world.   

Edited December 10, 2023 by Canuck Surfer

[Alflives]

56 minutes ago, Super19 said:

An Indigenous contigent led this week's "All Out For Palestine" March in downtown Vancouver earlier this evening. 

 

Crowds of people gathered at Vancouver Art Gallery to hear a few words from Indigenous and Palestenian activists, before the Indigenous contigent led the march, as over 1,000 followed behind chanting "Ceasefire Now" and "Free Free Palestine" in the wet rainy streets of Downtown Vancouver.

 

Sources estimate over 20,000 civillians have now been killed in Gaza since Israel began their military operation, most of the killed are women and children.

 

 

Morons. Stupid people doing stupid things. If they aren’t Canadians deport their asses. 

[Canuck Surfer]

Egypt is a dictatorship these days.  I wonder if any impact? They seem to hate Palestinians. Except when they are killing Jews...

 

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/sisi-poised-to-win-power-again-but-egyptians-minds-are-on-gaza/ar-AA1lgGqy?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=aefcf270d5d340f48a5f437d6dd0e0c7&ei=23

 

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

13 hours ago, Super19 said:

 

 

This is like Somali pirates trying attack ships in the red sea.  Or a wayward one-off missiles being launched from Gaza in to Israel?  Then they decide to launch 5000 missiles in a night, take women and children hostage on mass. Cheering for it is like cheering for those Yemenis to absorb the beating Gaza's Palestinians are.

 

Hamas had their nose bloodied a few times.  So have the Houthis, another warlord  driven Islamic Militant group. @RomanPer already answered what you don't understand. Fuck around and find out. Yemen, fortunately or unfortunately does not have rampant anti-semitism to throw public opinion against the ass kicking it attracts.

 

This is why 10 times as many people are dead and 5 times as many displaced in Yemen compared to Gaza. Houthis are simply looking for something that offers them the same sympathy in the world.  Apparently you just became a willing audience? It won't help the Houthis cause, nor is this actually supporting impoverished peoples. 

 

 

Take on full blown shipping activity that shuts down Suez canal, Red Sea shipping routes?  Yemen will look like Gaza even faster than it already does.