Hamas attacking Israel

[Spur1]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Release 6000 terrorists just means the good people in Gaza have to suffer more. The Israeli soldiers and the Israeli hostages are making the ultimate sacrifice in order for the good people of Gaza to be free. It’s a tragic irony. 

Any hostage exchange should be 1 for 1. 

[Super19]

5 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Releasing 6000 terrorists and negotiation with Hamas is not a solution.

The prisoners found guilty of terrorism can go back to prison. However, reports have shown that many were held without trial, as the IDF has the greenlight to pretty much capture anyone they want. 

As mentioned earlier, a Palestenian fisherman could be killed or arrested for simply fishing under an oppressive enforcement by Israel.

 

Or perhaps an Israeli settler attacks a Palestenian, Palestenian attacks back, and the IDF imprisoned said Palestenian.

 

You can see how messy the situation is. You do not know if all 6,000 Palestenians imprisoned are truly guilty, and because there was no judicial system resembling a democracy in place for them, there should be outrage for the way they've been imprisoned especially for every single innocent prisoner.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's my understanding of how the prisoners have been held. Not to mention, the illegal treatment of some prisoners which has been recorded as fact, irregardless of the crimes/non-crimes they committed.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong 

Okay, IMHAO you’re 100% wrong. The Hamas terrorist group must be all eliminated (dispatched if that’s better sounding) for Gaza people to be free. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Alflives

[King Heffy]

5 minutes ago, Super19 said:

The prisoners found guilty of terrorism can go back to prison. However, reports have shown that many were held without trial, as the IDF has the greenlight to pretty much capture anyone they want. 

As mentioned earlier, a Palestenian fisherman could be killed or arrested for simply fishing under an oppressive enforcement by Israel.

 

Or perhaps an Israeli settler attacks a Palestenian, Palestenian attacks back, and the IDF imprisoned said Palestenian.

 

You can see how messy the situation is. You do not know if all 6,000 Palestenians imprisoned are truly guilty, and because there was no judicial system resembling a democracy in place for them, there should be outrage for the way they've been imprisoned especially for every single innocent prisoner.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's my understanding of how the prisoners have been held. Not to mention, the illegal treatment of some prisoners which has been recorded as fact, irregardless of the crimes/non-crimes they committed.

You're suggesting releasing them all is a solution.  Clearly it's not.

[Super19]

31 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

You're suggesting releasing them all is a solution.  Clearly it's not.

As the world is watching, the US veto and the continuation of this war is clearly causing massive worldwide problems we can't even begin to grasp at present, let alone all the innocent kids dying in Gaza rn.

 

Everyone but the US wants this to continue. Stop the madness. 

[Bob Long]

8 minutes ago, Super19 said:

As the world is watching, the US veto and the continuation of this war is clearly causing massive worldwide problems we can't even begin to grasp at present, let alone all the innocent kids dying in Gaza rn.

 

Everyone but the US wants this to continue. Stop the madness. 

 

How can you ignore Russian meddling?

[Super19]

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

How can you ignore Russian meddling?

The US and Israel are isolated at the UN. Russia did not veto or vote against a ceasefire.

[Yoshiyoshi]

12 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

How can you ignore Russian meddling?

Easily, the west is the bad guys remember. Those terrorist are freedom fighters and those autocracies care about the people and are working hard to make the world a better place and the west is responsible for all the bad things in the world

[RomanPer]

7 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

Easily, the west is the bad guys remember. Those terrorist are freedom fighters and those autocracies care about the people and are working hard to make the world a better place and the west is responsible for all the bad things in the world

And this is exactly why Russia is behind the recent Hamas attack.

[Bob Long]

17 minutes ago, Super19 said:

The US and Israel are isolated at the UN. Russia did not veto or vote against a ceasefire.

 

No they just help Iran and Hamas. Come on man, you can't just brush that off.

[Bob Long]

10 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

Easily, the west is the bad guys remember. Those terrorist are freedom fighters and those autocracies care about the people and are working hard to make the world a better place and the west is responsible for all the bad things in the world

 

Something something Starbucks and colonialism 

[Yoshiyoshi]

14 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Something something Starbucks and colonialism 

no no its Starbucks Colonialism

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Yoshiyoshi said:

no no its Starbucks Colonialism

 

Pumpkin spice colonialism 

[Super19]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Okay, IMHAO you’re 100% wrong. The Hamas terrorist group must be all eliminated (dispatched if that’s better sounding) for Gaza people to be free. 

What about 90% of these Palestenian men who had no affiliation to Hamas?

 

"The recent images of men detained and stripped down in Gaza were "deeply disturbing," US State Department spokesperson Matt Miller said Monday.

Asked by CNN about the photos, Miller reiterated that the US is seeking more information from the Israeli government.

The United States is seeking answers about the status of the individuals in the photos, the circumstances around the images, and "how ultimately they became public," he said."

[Super19]

2 hours ago, King Heffy said:

You're suggesting releasing them all is a solution.  Clearly it's not.

Nearing 10,000 Palestenian children killed now. What if 20,000 Palestenian children are killed until Israel takes out Hamas? 50,000 children killed? 100,000 killed? What if Israel just drops a nuke on Gaza?

Is all that justified because it eliminated Hamas and it was Israel's right to defend itself? I don't think so, and I certainly don't support it.

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, Super19 said:

Nearing 10,000 Palestenian children killed now. What if 20,000 Palestenian children are killed until Israel takes out Hamas? 50,000 children killed? 100,000 killed? What if Israel just drops a nuke on Gaza?

Is all that justified because it eliminated Hamas and it was Israel's right to defend itself? I don't think so, and I certainly don't support it.

 

People, including Yahya Sinwar were among those released by Israel for a prisoner in 2011.  Its turned out to be a root cause cause of war in 2023. Inspired Hamas to take more hostages, proven as highly profitable tactically. Repeating mistakes is unwise.       

 

Lets keep the dangerous and disillusioned, violent in jail. Arrest and turn by extradition over violent settlers for trial by jury as an exchange in West Bank?  In principal, I am fine with this! Dirt for dirt. 

 

BTW, how come you don't understand how to spell Palestinian correctly?   I am starting to question, maybe, you're a social media re-broadcaster?

 

 

All death is tragic.  How about Israel let Sinwar live?  To face trial in return for releasing 138 civilian hostages. Martyr himself to a judge at the Hague rather than hide in a tunnel underneath civilians who cannot escape?   

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, Super19 said:

What about 90% of these Palestenian men who had no affiliation to Hamas?

 

What about the women, children & grandparents in Kibbutz's of Southern Israel who were either slaughtered or taken hostage? There arms tied behind their backs, then shot in the head, or burned alive.

 

These folks were stripped to check for on body bombs & weapons.  Will be processed and identity checked. Part of releases if not Hamas fighters. Hiding out, in some ways, is easily understandable.  Hiding out out in and around Sinwars home? Where they were captured??  These guys have already had a better outcome than Hamas victims.

 

 

Send the hostages home!

[Canuck Surfer]

22 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

It would be place where everyone is equal. 

 

Screw governments, they're mostly corrupt, as is the case with Isreals government, and the series of governing bodies the Palestinians have been forced to live with. 

 

Like the Athenians I believe a sortition to be a better democratic tool than elections. 

They had specially built allotment machines called kleroteria.

They were used to avoid corrupt practices used by oligarchs to buy their way into power. 

 

As for Isreals " right " to occupy the west bank, the international community doesn't believe this, they deem it against international law.

As my post above yours indicates, international/ humanitarian law was founded on the work Ben Ferenc and his fellow prosecutor did at the Nuremberg war trials. 

 

And again for the third time I will post this. 

 

Please read it.

 

http://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/200205_land_grab

 

Doest seem like justice is being served does it.

 

 

 

I've read it.  

 

I am for justice, not necessarily how some interpret laws or situational interpretations of such. Or where situations make a legal distinction at least worthy of discussion. Including that laws should encompass survival. You'll find countless posts, by myself here, chastising, calling out specific acts as highly illegal, obtrusive by Israel.  

 

Pre WWI there were less than a million occupants as population in 'Palestine.' WWI, the end of empires & Imperialism? Including Jordan & the Sinai. Those of Jewish faith were not the only cultures who fled, came ''home'' to 'Palestine.'  The birth rate did not triple; even where many lost ancestral homes. Most were not in place a generation before. Like Jews, Palestinian's were among 20,000,000 plus looking, scrambling after the Ottomans left between 1912 & 1946, for a new & safer home.

 

In 1890, 76% of the regions 1/2 million population was attributed to ruling Ottoman's. NOT Palestinian Muslims. Muslims, roughly a 1500 year old distinction in religion? Themselves not a majority until about 500 years ago. And that was during the Ottoman empire.  Palestinians a small minority disparaged and suffering from a lack of place or identity. No right to own land, right of religion, free movement. During the 1920ès & 1930ès all kinds of people flooded this area as the Empire collapsed. Many came as workers during British interim rule. 

 

When Israel was formed it had less than 30% of the land that is now Israel, not including Gaza or the 'Occupied' West Bank.  Everyone wanted Palestine; armies from 5 + nations attacked 'Israel.'  Shame on them, 20 times the population getting their asses kicked. Israel has toyed with how to steal, and give back territory depending on landscape & politicians of the day. As I said, many despicable acts! I have argued Israel making payments to Palestinian families in reparations for lost lands. Jordanian & Syrian armies have still killed as many Palestinians since 1948 as Israel. 

 

Maybe it should be from the Jordan river to the Euphrates? By the rivers of Babylon... Maybe Hamas, the PLO before them, should stop praying to Payola and acknowledge other people within the land?  2,000,000 Arabs live in Israel. Almost no Jews live elsewhere in the Middle East. 

 

Who is cleansing who?   

[Bob Long]

7 hours ago, Super19 said:

What about 90% of these Palestenian men who had no affiliation to Hamas?

 

"The recent images of men detained and stripped down in Gaza were "deeply disturbing," US State Department spokesperson Matt Miller said Monday.

Asked by CNN about the photos, Miller reiterated that the US is seeking more information from the Israeli government.

The United States is seeking answers about the status of the individuals in the photos, the circumstances around the images, and "how ultimately they became public," he said."

 

The lack of logic in that tweet is hilarious.

[RomanPer]

6 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

People, including Yahya Sinwar were among those released by Israel for a prisoner in 2011.  Its turned out to be a root cause cause of war in 2023. Inspired Hamas to take more hostages, proven as highly profitable tactically. Repeating mistakes is unwise.       

 

Lets keep the dangerous and disillusioned, violent in jail. Arrest and turn by extradition over violent settlers for trial by jury as an exchange in West Bank?  In principal, I am fine with this! Dirt for dirt. 

 

BTW, how come you don't understand how to spell Palestinian correctly?   I am starting to question, maybe, you're a social media re-broadcaster?

 

 

All death is tragic.  How about Israel let Sinwar live?  To face trial in return for releasing 138 civilian hostages. Martyr himself to a judge at the Hague rather than hide in a tunnel underneath civilians who cannot escape?   

 

Not only that - those awful Zionists cured him of cancer while he was in custody. It’s probably because they are all genocidal and want to eradicate all Palestinians (for those new to the thread - this is sarcasm).

[Super19]

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

 

Not only that - those awful Zionists cured him of cancer while he was in custody. It’s probably because they are all genocidal and want to eradicate all Palestinians (for those new to the thread - this is sarcasm).

Yahya Sinwar was surely a two faced villian who duped Israeli intelligence. Is this military response on all Gazans payback from Israel? 

 

At this point, Israel's response is more than proportionate. If it's the heads of Sinwar and his cronies that Israel wants. Ceasefire. Corner Hamas leaders and give then a diplomatic ultimatum that doesn't involve gloriously fcking up Gaza and the kids living there.

[Taxi]

41 minutes ago, Super19 said:

I surely a two faced villian who duped Israeli intelligence. Is this military response on all Gazans payback from Israel? 

 

At this point, Israel's response is more than proportionate. If it's the heads of Sinwar and his cronies that Israel wants. Ceasefire. Corner Hamas leaders and give then a diplomatic ultimatum that doesn't involve gloriously fcking up Gaza and the kids living there.

 

If there's a ceasefire, Israel can't just go after the leaders. Israel is trying to go after the leaders, but they are hidden deep within (and underneath) civilian areas. Israel is stating that Sinwar his in an aid convoy to get away from them:

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-leader-sinwar-said-to-have-fled-north-gaza-by-hiding-in-humanitarian-convoy/

[Optimist Prime]

somewhat on point today:

[The Arrogant Worms]

Biden Warns Netanyahu Israel Is ‘Starting to Lose Support’ In War Against Hamas Due to Ongoing ‘Indiscriminate Bombing’ of Gaza

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/biden-warns-netanyahu-israel-is-starting-to-lose-support-in-war-against-hamas-due-to-ongoing-indiscriminate-bombing-of-gaza/

[Canuck Surfer]

22 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

somewhat on point today:

 

OMG i spit my coffee.  Thanks for this!